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Mom guilty in co-sleeping death of second child


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  #21  
April 10th, 2012, 02:42 PM
Frackel's Avatar DOh!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeToTheMax View Post
I have a few friends who think I'm crazy for baby wearing at all becuase of it, no matter the carrier or how it is used. These people are all very educated, but because of a few articles, they assuming an entire range of products is dangerous.
I didn't quote the whole thing, but I wouldn't call people who make assumptions like that very educated. It's quite clear, they aren't(and that's something you said in your own post, about people who make assumptions similar to this, that they aren't informed.



It's a topic being discussed all over the place and most of the comments I am seeing, even from very ignorant people, are about HER, not cosleeping in and of itself.
In fact, I've only seen a handful of comments about cosleeping in general being a bad thing, because of this incident.
It's an event that we can use to educate, and I think in that right it will be very effective. For every one person who might assume cosleeping is bad, because of things like this, there is just as likely one out there who will learn that cosleeping was not the culprit. Of course that's just my opinion, but that's pretty much all we're sharing here anyway, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
I agree.

"Never co-slept when mine were babies but we had them in cots & then toddler beds in our room until they were 2 and 3. Then beds in own rooms with no problems. Now early in the morning they often come in, hop in with us and co-sleep aged 4 and 7. " Having your kids in your room but in different beds IS co-sleeping - See you can see the uninformed right there
I wouldn't call that being uninformed. Many people do not consider having a child in the room with you, as cosleeping. While others think quite differently. I don't think you can really base what is, or is not, off the opinion(s) of some people.
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  #22  
April 10th, 2012, 03:59 PM
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In my area, most people use the word co-sleeping to describe the child sleeping in bed with them. I have NEVER heard the term "bed-sharing" outside of mommy forums. I honestly didn't even know that the terms had different meaning until probably the last six months or so.
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  #23  
April 10th, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Fair enough.
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  #24  
April 10th, 2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliek0211 View Post
In my area, most people use the word co-sleeping to describe the child sleeping in bed with them. I have NEVER heard the term "bed-sharing" outside of mommy forums. I honestly didn't even know that the terms had different meaning until probably the last six months or so.
yup
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  #25  
April 10th, 2012, 07:05 PM
*Jennifer*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
I agree.

You can see evidence of uninformed people by just reading comments after articles like these. "I always knew co-sleeping was bad/dangerous", "co-sleeping should be made illegal", and so on.

Here are some comments from the dailymail's website on this article.

"Co sleeping is a practice that is used by lazy parents who can't be bothered to get out of bed to go and see to their babies or think it's cute to have their babies with them. I'm sorry but I really do not agree with it. Why would you take the risk of harming your baby or increasing the chance of SIDS? I don't get why people insist on doing this. And yes before some of you namby pamby parents jump on me, I have a child."

Was that comment made by someone called Superwoman? Just have a feeling.
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  #26  
April 10th, 2012, 07:40 PM
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I agree with the verdict. What a sad story and I agree also that her laughing in the video and smiling ear to ear in her mugshot is just sick.
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  #27  
April 10th, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
"Co sleeping is a practice that is used by lazy parents who can't be bothered to get out of bed to go and see to their babies or think it's cute to have their babies with them. I'm sorry but I really do not agree with it. Why would you take the risk of harming your baby or increasing the chance of SIDS? I don't get why people insist on doing this. And yes before some of you namby pamby parents jump on me, I have a child."
Ugh I hate when people say stuff like that. Co sleeping was easier for us but that was because it was less disruptive to the baby and everyone else. I co slept a lot longer with Jillian and she ended up being a much better sleeper. I could just roll over and feed her. She didn't have to wait or fully wake up. DS was only BF exclusively for 6 weeks and then he mostly got formula so he'd be fully awake by the time I got a bottle ready. He wasn't a good sleeper.

That mug shot is weird but in all fairness she wasn't arrested until nearly a year after the baby died. That picture wasn't taken just days or weeks after the baby died. Either way it is still weird.
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  #28  
April 10th, 2012, 07:43 PM
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I have to agree with LifetotheMax. I too, read the article and saw no mention of the drugs. It just pointed to the fact that she was co-sleeping. And, like she also stated, the headline sets the tone.
I have co-slept with all four of my children. You can't tell me that "some" people are misinformed about the benefits of SAFE co-sleeping. Before leaving the hospital with each of my infants, I was told several times not to sleep with my baby because it was sooooo dangerous. When I have taken them to their pediatrician appointments, I am asked, "you don't co-sleep, do you?" and then the horror stories are reiterated. There have been anti co-sleeping campaigns launched via commercials, billboards and paper ads. They don't educate on safe co-sleeping, they only perpetuate the ideology that co-sleeping is akin to playing Russian roulette with your baby.



The fact that this woman was heavily medicated isn't even mentioned in most of the news stories covering this and the ones that do, it is just a snippet of information. The mistake being highlighted isn't the drugs, it is the fact that she had her infant in her bed.
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  #29  
April 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM
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After the first lecture I got from my son's pediatrician about how dangerous it was, I just started lying and told her that he and later that my daughter both slept in their cribs. I loved having them sleep on my chest for the first month or so and then next to me for about 6 more months, we both slept better when they were in bed with me.
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  #30  
April 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesliek0211 View Post
In my area, most people use the word co-sleeping to describe the child sleeping in bed with them. I have NEVER heard the term "bed-sharing" outside of mommy forums. I honestly didn't even know that the terms had different meaning until probably the last six months or so.
Same her Leslie. There may be a change in terms now but in a lot of literature I had, co sleeping always meant the parent and baby/child slept in the same bed.
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  #31  
April 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM
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I always get weird looks from coworkers or people of the like when I tell them Jace still sleeps with me. Surprisingly, his pediatrician's office sees no issues with it. His ped actually told me that in her culture it's normal and her entire family slept in one room when she was growing up. It felt good to have the support from his ped (and even if I didn't, it wouldn't stop me from sharing a bed with Jace.)


If this mother was not knocked out on narcotics like people have been saying, then my views would change. I guess we won't ever know the entire story.
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  #32  
April 11th, 2012, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Cereal Killer View Post
I have to agree with LifetotheMax. I too, read the article and saw no mention of the drugs. It just pointed to the fact that she was co-sleeping. And, like she also stated, the headline sets the tone.
I have co-slept with all four of my children. You can't tell me that "some" people are misinformed about the benefits of SAFE co-sleeping. Before leaving the hospital with each of my infants, I was told several times not to sleep with my baby because it was sooooo dangerous. When I have taken them to their pediatrician appointments, I am asked, "you don't co-sleep, do you?" and then the horror stories are reiterated. There have been anti co-sleeping campaigns launched via commercials, billboards and paper ads. They don't educate on safe co-sleeping, they only perpetuate the ideology that co-sleeping is akin to playing Russian roulette with your baby.



The fact that this woman was heavily medicated isn't even mentioned in most of the news stories covering this and the ones that do, it is just a snippet of information. The mistake being highlighted isn't the drugs, it is the fact that she had her infant in her bed.
Exactly. I had to go digging to find the article that mentioned the drugs she was on when it happened. Most news stories just sensationalized the fact that the infant was in her bed and gave no mention of the fact that she was on narcotics and Xanex. Articles like that frustrate me.

It makes me wonder what, if anything, she was on when the first infant died in her bed.
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  #33  
April 11th, 2012, 05:51 AM
Repti.Mom's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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If she wasn't on drugs for either of the deaths would you just claim they were both 'accidents'? I guess I wouldn't see a difference, even ONE death SOMETHING had to have been wrong with the situation.

I like finding out that co-sleeping means sleeping in my room not in my bed. Now I can be cool too (j/k)
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  #34  
April 11th, 2012, 07:55 AM
ratladee's Avatar Madison Marie, My Sweet P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BittyBugsMama View Post
Thats her mugshot??? ..... wow .....
That's not a mug shot. It's a personal picture used to get more views on the story. You are not allowed to smile when you get your mugshot taken.

My 2 cents, they need to prove it was death by suffocation or smashing. You can easily tell that with an autopsy. I don't think she should be convicted unless the autopsy reveals it, and even then shouldn't there be a motive? Was it done out of malice? Probably not. It was probably a horrible accident or just 2 freak accidents. After having my baby I had my percocet prescribed for after labor and I had to co sleep with her. She was on my chest. I was still vigilent, I wasn't abusing it though... You'd think the death of two babies would be punishment enough. Imagine if you were in her shoes. Besides, we really only know what the media WANTS us to know. Just like the whole trayvon thing.
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  #35  
April 11th, 2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ratladee View Post
That's not a mug shot. It's a personal picture used to get more views on the story. You are not allowed to smile when you get your mugshot taken.
Mug Shots: Funny Faces | The Smoking Gun

Guess a majority of those people didn't get the memo..


As for her charge, you know the FACTS of what she was charged with, that's not just 'what the news wants you to know'. Even in the video it compares what she did to that of a drunk driver. The endangerment that she was charged with has nothing to do with it being intentional. She DID however know that putting her son in bed with her had the potential of being deadly in her circumstances, just like the previous death, and just like a drunk person knows that when they get behind the wheel of a car that they have the potential to kill someone. That is the negligence she was charged with, and the charge fits the crime.
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  #36  
April 11th, 2012, 08:52 AM
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We co-sleep until they wean themselves. We bed-shared with ds1 until he was 3, that is when he asked for his own bed. ds2 still sleeps in our bed and ds1 is in his own bed in our room. Yes people are misinformed. I can't even count how many times someone has said that it was dangerous, stupid, lazy and so on that I bed-share. I've also had my fair share of negative comments with just the co-sleeping (not in bed with me).

If this was an accident (as in no drugs or anything like that to make it dangerous) then it is just an accident, a very sad and unfortunate one. Babies can die of SIDS anywhere, it is not just crib sleeping (although studies I guess show that it's more often in cribs then in a family bed). No matter how this baby died it does not make bed-sharing dangerous across the board. I think all of us can agree that not everyone should bed-share with their baby/child, that it should only be done in the safe and responsible conditions.
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  #37  
April 11th, 2012, 09:14 AM
ratladee's Avatar Madison Marie, My Sweet P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Repti.Mom View Post
Mug Shots: Funny Faces | The Smoking Gun

Guess a majority of those people didn't get the memo..


As for her charge, you know the FACTS of what she was charged with, that's not just 'what the news wants you to know'. Even in the video it compares what she did to that of a drunk driver. The endangerment that she was charged with has nothing to do with it being intentional. She DID however know that putting her son in bed with her had the potential of being deadly in her circumstances, just like the previous death, and just like a drunk person knows that when they get behind the wheel of a car that they have the potential to kill someone. That is the negligence she was charged with, and the charge fits the crime.
Hmm that's a funny website! My husband is the one who told me about it, he went to the police academy. I guess you can't control everyone though. I guess negligence is a fair charge for her case, I'm glad they didn't try and charge her with man slaughter or murder or something.
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  #38  
April 11th, 2012, 09:58 AM
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Co-sleeping is not like drunk driving. Equating the two is ridiculous.

The defense is arguing that Tristan died of SIDS, since the coroner could not pinpoint a cause of death. From what I gather, the first child's death was ruled as SIDS, as well, so no charges were filed. The Clarks were required to attend a safety course by CPS that denounces co-sleeping, COMPLETELY. These charges seem to be premised on no relevant evidence. The CPS worker that testified said infants can't protect themselves in an adult-sized bed. She went on to say that there is no instance where co-sleeping is beneficial. The fact that the Clarks attended this anti-co-sleeping class and chose to bring their baby to bed, in spite of this, is the basis of the charges, it seems.
To me, the anti co-sleeping campaign does a major disservice to parents. It completely disregards any opportunity to teach parents safe co-sleeping habits. Was it smart for her to take these medications while co-sleeping? No. BUT, I can't find any information that says that it directly led to this child's death.

Considering that SIDS has a genetic link, it is entirely plausible that these parents are being crucified for no other crime than genetically predisposing their children to SIDS.
Quote:
Younger siblings of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS) victims are at about five times greater risk of dying from SIDS themselves than babies in the general US population, the results of a new study show.
Risk of SIDS in Victims' Siblings Tied to Genes

Keep in mind, it wasn't too long ago that SIDS was referred to as "crib death". Since these parents are going to be convicted with no clear evidence indicating their actions to be a direct cause of the child's death, other than co-sleeping, it stands to reason that parents of infants that succumb to SIDS in a crib should be charged under the same umbrella if there are bumpers, blankets, stuffed animals or any other item that poses a risk.
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  #39  
April 11th, 2012, 01:29 PM
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Climbing in bed with your child when you have not taken absolutely every precaution to make sure they are safe is exactly the same as climbing behind the wheel of a car when you are intoxicated. The results in either case can be fatal, as proven. I'm sure there are lots of other examples you can make, but that's the easiest one.
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  #40  
April 11th, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Repti.Mom View Post
Climbing in bed with your child when you have not taken absolutely every precaution to make sure they are safe is exactly the same as climbing behind the wheel of a car when you are intoxicated. The results in either case can be fatal, as proven. I'm sure there are lots of other examples you can make, but that's the easiest one.
Again, there is nothing that states that she was being unsafe. All the articles say is, GASP--SHE KILLED TWO BABIES BY CO-SLEEPING!!!". The fact is, the coroner could not pinpoint a cause of death. The prosecution never said that she, herself, killed the child. They say that her decision to co-sleep was negligent. There is nothing that says that she rolled onto the baby or that the baby was suffocated by a pillow. I think it is safe to assume that if they could point to her being the DIRECT cause of her child's death, they would have done so. For all we know, she took every precaution.
Also, as I provided in my previous post, SIDS has been shown to have a genetic link. The possibility remains that this couple's children are genetically predisposed to SIDS. The fact that she put her son in bed with her does not, in and of itself, prove any wrong doing. Again, there is NO LAW against co-sleeping. If we are going to start prosecuting parents for defying general guidelines and recommendations, the courts better start filing charges against parents who don't breastfeed for a year, parents who forward face their child prior to two, parents of obese children----I could go on.
They didn't break any laws by co-sleeping and there is no evidence that points to this child's death being anything more than a tragic fluke. I just can't get behind prosecuting these parents when all signs point to SIDS.
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