Log In Sign Up

Mom guilty in co-sleeping death of second child


Forum: Heated Debates

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Like Tree28Likes

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Heated Debates LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #41  
April 11th, 2012, 02:02 PM
Fluffy Baby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 8,785
I agree with Stacey here. They do not know how the baby died.

This is just one more step of taking more decisions away from parents.
__________________
Leann <3 Hector
My trio: Alyssa 7, Tristan 4.75, Gavin 1.5

I am a mixture of all that and a bag of chips... IJS



Rest In Peace Jennifer <3



Reply With Quote
  #42  
April 11th, 2012, 02:29 PM
AtomicMama's Avatar CopperBoom!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 14,754
Stacey, you do have a valid point. Without seeing the actual write up or going back through the evidence in the trial, it really is hard to say one way or the other what the jury ruled on. Honestly, I do think that there is a good chance that her use of mixed perscription drugs played a big factor in the death of the infants. However, you do raise a good point that the prosectution may not have been able to prove that. I don't necessarily think an autopsy would be the only way to prove that it was a factor, and I do think use of prescription drugs while cosleeping is negligent (the charge she was convicted on). Without more evidence, though, you're right to say that we honestly don't know whether the conviction was based on that evidence or merely that she had two babies die cosleeping, which in an of itself should not be cause for a negligence charge. Regardless, I think it's reasonable to point out that she was NOT charged with murder. She was charged with child endangerment (which I personally do think is a fair charge for anyone under the influence cosleeping with an infant).

All that to say, I ALSO agree with the argument that cases like this pose a risk to increasing the limitations and choices of parents. As I mentioned before, my biggest fear with cases/reports like this one is that they tend to be read or construed as CO-SLEEPING is dangerous (not co-sleeping under the influence is dangerous). Again, I think that makes it important to look at how the jury came to the conviction.
*Leslie* likes this.
__________________
Amy: Wife to my Handsome Husband Mommy to my superhero, Max (3) and Luckiest Bonus Mama to Sammy (5)

Reply With Quote
  #43  
April 11th, 2012, 02:34 PM
Fluffy Baby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 8,785
Alot of postpartum moms take pain killers and co-sleep. I don't understand how that is ok while this lady is being crucified. (Not by JM members, by others.)
__________________
Leann <3 Hector
My trio: Alyssa 7, Tristan 4.75, Gavin 1.5

I am a mixture of all that and a bag of chips... IJS



Rest In Peace Jennifer <3



Reply With Quote
  #44  
April 11th, 2012, 02:37 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: next to Chuck Norris
Posts: 7,373
I don't agree with the charges. If they can charge her with child endangerment for nothing more than co-sleeping, then any parent that co-sleeps is de facto guilty of child endangerment and subject to prosecution. If there was no law broken and there is no evidence that her actions were DIRECTLY responsible for the child's death, this is unjust, IMO.
Fluffy Baby and HappyHippy like this.
__________________
Wife, Mother of 4, Homeschooling, and wine drinking.


Reply With Quote
  #45  
April 11th, 2012, 02:48 PM
AtomicMama's Avatar CopperBoom!
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 14,754
You're definitely making me rethink the charge, Stacey. However, I still do believe that IF the prosecution was able to prove that great risks to the child's safety and well being existed when she (or anyone) coslept with the child under the influence of the specific mix of drugs that was taken, then the charge of child endangerment is reasonable. Again, I really feel like it depends on how the case what argued and what evidence was given. I am starting to doubt, though, that the prosecution truly provided substantial evidence to prove that point.

This is from Iowa, just becuase it was the first one I found, but I would guess most state laws read similarly:
Quote:
726.6 Child endangerment.
1. A person who is the parent, guardian, or person having custody or control over a child or a minor under the age of eighteen with a mental or physical disability, or a person who is a member of the household in which a child or such a minor resides, commits child endangerment when the person does any of the following:
a. Knowingly acts in a manner that creates a substantial risk to a child or minor's physical, mental or emotional health or safety.
Per this law, I would feel that the mother would have had to KNOW that cosleeping under the influence of her specific drugs would pose a substantial risk to the child. If they prosecution truly could prove that, then I agree with the charge. Otherwise, I agree with you that they are trying to make an example of her and falsely criminalize cosleeping.

Quote:
Alot of postpartum moms take pain killers and co-sleep. I don't understand how that is ok while this lady is being crucified. (Not by JM members, by others.)
To be fair, I would never ever judge/cruficy another mother/parent for this, and I can't even say that I would never do this myself, but I don't necessarily think that it would be the wisest decision to make. Absolutely not criminal, but unwise. I can't remember the exact concoction the mother in this case had taken, but I think (please please correct me if I am wrong) that it was more than simple post partum pain killers.
__________________
Amy: Wife to my Handsome Husband Mommy to my superhero, Max (3) and Luckiest Bonus Mama to Sammy (5)

Reply With Quote
  #46  
April 11th, 2012, 02:52 PM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cereal Killer View Post
I don't agree with the charges. If they can charge her with child endangerment for nothing more than co-sleeping, then any parent that co-sleeps is de facto guilty of child endangerment and subject to prosecution. If there was no law broken and there is no evidence that her actions were DIRECTLY responsible for the child's death, this is unjust, IMO.
I agree with that. If there is evidence of taking medications that can directly impact your sleep or any other things on the list of no-nos when you co-sleep, then I do think it is child endangerment.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
Reply With Quote
  #47  
April 11th, 2012, 09:46 PM
Fluffy Baby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 8,785
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeToTheMax View Post
You're definitely making me rethink the charge, Stacey. However, I still do believe that IF the prosecution was able to prove that great risks to the child's safety and well being existed when she (or anyone) coslept with the child under the influence of the specific mix of drugs that was taken, then the charge of child endangerment is reasonable. Again, I really feel like it depends on how the case what argued and what evidence was given. I am starting to doubt, though, that the prosecution truly provided substantial evidence to prove that point.

This is from Iowa, just becuase it was the first one I found, but I would guess most state laws read similarly:


Per this law, I would feel that the mother would have had to KNOW that cosleeping under the influence of her specific drugs would pose a substantial risk to the child. If they prosecution truly could prove that, then I agree with the charge. Otherwise, I agree with you that they are trying to make an example of her and falsely criminalize cosleeping.



To be fair, I would never ever judge/cruficy another mother/parent for this, and I can't even say that I would never do this myself, but I don't necessarily think that it would be the wisest decision to make. Absolutely not criminal, but unwise. I can't remember the exact concoction the mother in this case had taken, but I think (please please correct me if I am wrong) that it was more than simple post partum pain killers.

I agree with you, but my first OB (2 kids) gave me Hydrocodone and Xanax for PP. I was taking them at the same time. Good thing I listened to other people as a first time mom and had DD in a bassinette but moved to my bed when I realized I got more sleep that way and I was not on meds. DS was stillborn, so not really worried about rolling on baby either. But it is crazy what OBs prescribe.
__________________
Leann <3 Hector
My trio: Alyssa 7, Tristan 4.75, Gavin 1.5

I am a mixture of all that and a bag of chips... IJS



Rest In Peace Jennifer <3



Reply With Quote
  #48  
April 13th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Keepin' it real!
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,656
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusieQ2 View Post
Vanessa Clark: Second SIDS Death in a Year Leads to Child Endangerment Conviction - Houston News - Hair Balls

Based on this information that I found in another article I do agree with the verdict. I'm all for cosleeping and I co slept with both of my children. There are some things that are complete no-nos while cosleeping though and you'd think that someone who had already had one infant die in their bed would be extra vigilant. She had taken hydrocodone and Xanax. No way should an infant have been in bed with her.
I agree. Especially considering she lost one child already (I read this story in a different article, and I'm pretty sure same person), you'd think she'd be smarter.

People do need to learn to be accountable, and finally, this verdict makes someone accountable for their own actions. It's a tragedy the first child died let alone the second, in a case which was completely preventable.
__________________
Lynn
Mom to many



1 Girl 2011 and 1 Boy 2013. Their family is COMPLETE!

Surrogacy # 3 for new family?: 2014??
Reply With Quote
  #49  
April 13th, 2012, 09:40 PM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 15,982
Send a message via AIM to glasscandie Send a message via Yahoo to glasscandie
I don't think the drunk driving comparison is applicable, but if it would be child endangerment to take that combination of pills in any other situation (driving child to school, watching child at home and staring off into fantasy land while the child misses breakfast and lunch, etc), then it would be child endangerment if you took that combo of pills and made the decision to get into bed with the child. I agree with the charges, on the information I have at hand. The daughter, my husband, and I coslept for years. But there are precautions that should be taken to make sure it's safe.

I find this situation, as I understand it, as equatable to putting a bright pink plastic cup of bleach on a kid's dresser, I don't know, you couldn't find a measuring cup, and then saying you didn't know the outcome would be so bad.
__________________
I predict a riot.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
April 14th, 2012, 08:39 AM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by GinaB View Post
I am biased because anyone with a mugshot like this after your child dies deserves a special place in Hell.
I hope you're not serious and this is her real mugshot?!?!?!?!?!?!? ***?

I agree with the verdict. When done correctly, co sleeping can be safe.

I am on xanax and I wouldn't even sleep with my 3 year old. Terribly unsafe.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #51  
April 14th, 2012, 11:09 AM
Keepin' it real!
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,656
Is that lady really in the mug shot or is that some other picture? You know, looking at her face, and her happiness, you wonder if she purposely did something they haven't found yet...Sorry, but not a single person I know that's lost a child has ever looked like that even months later!
__________________
Lynn
Mom to many



1 Girl 2011 and 1 Boy 2013. Their family is COMPLETE!

Surrogacy # 3 for new family?: 2014??
Reply With Quote
  #52  
April 14th, 2012, 11:45 AM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSLynn View Post
Is that lady really in the mug shot or is that some other picture? You know, looking at her face, and her happiness, you wonder if she purposely did something they haven't found yet...Sorry, but not a single person I know that's lost a child has ever looked like that even months later!
This is exactly what I'm wondering.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #53  
April 14th, 2012, 12:02 PM
*Leslie*'s Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,051
Send a message via AIM to *Leslie* Send a message via Yahoo to *Leslie*
Every story I have seen indicates that this is her mugshot. It wasn't taken until awhile after the child died, but nonetheless, seems totally inappropriate.
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #54  
April 14th, 2012, 12:15 PM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
I wonder if she is mentally ill, because I can't understand the look on her face.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
  #55  
April 14th, 2012, 12:17 PM
K.A.T's Avatar Enjoying her Sticky Bun
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NYC
Posts: 13,499
That's truly a mugshot? I can't believe it. I've never seen one so well taken. Shoot most drivers license pictures look more like mugshots than that picture.
__________________

❤ Big Thanks to Vicki, trishosaurus, & Shortcake for the great siggies of my kids! ❤
Liz (36) Kev (35)
Tiana (16) Doni (14) Lil Kev (8) Ethan 7/23/12 Lil Roo 10/29/11



Reply With Quote
  #56  
April 14th, 2012, 12:17 PM
*Dayna*'s Avatar Aussie Mama
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
That's truly a mugshot? I can't believe it. I've never seen one so well taken. Shoot most drivers license pictures look more like mugshots than that picture.
Probably helps that she's pretty good looking.
__________________
Nothing is better than being with your family. Finally reunited after 5 long months <3
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0