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When children and pets don't mix.....


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  #41  
July 8th, 2012, 09:47 PM
Hey... Where's Perry?'s Avatar Darnit face
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Quote:
Originally Posted by May14th2011 View Post
He's still a puppy and puppies play with their teeth. My SIL's jack russell/lab mix plays with his teeth.
As for snapping, we're training him to stop, and it's working. It's just like training him to not jump on the couch or on the bed. It takes time and patience.

We honestly thought he was bull mastiff/bull dog mix, he looks nothing like any pitbull we've ever seen. I had all the same thoughts before- "They're more dangerous" "They'll attack for no reason" but it really depends on how they're raised. Pitbulls get a lot of bad rap.
For the last 6 months, my MIL and FIL have LOVED our dog, but as soon as we told them he's a pitbull, they act completely different around him. Anytime he does anything he shouldn't (tears something up, etc.) they say "It's because he's a pitbull."
My BIL's dog snaps, and he's a husky mix. (MIL and FIL won't comment on that because they love huskies)

I'm honestly not worried. You wouldn't leave a baby alone with any dog, regardless of the breed.

I should also point out that he only ever gets rough if you get rough with him. He's not a rough dog, but if you rile him up, he goes all in. The biggest problem is teaching the kids to leave him alone. (We have 9 nieces and nephews) If they don't mess with him, he will leave them alone. He's completely uninterested in the youngest(only 23 mos), even when she's crying. She can walk around and he'll just go on with his business, ignoring her.

But statistics show that certain breeds for example, your pitbull, IS more aggressive/dangerous. Again, like certain breeds of sharks are more aggressive/dangerous, even when raised by people in an aquarium. It's part of their DNA, anecdotal stories and life experiences can't change that, really. Am I saying your dog is going to maul your entire family's faces? No. But the odds of happening is higher compared to a bassett hound.

ETA: People leave their baby alone with the family pet all the time. It's not like it doesn't happen, but most people really do trust their animal/dog so much that they just know nothing would happen. Is it the safest route? Of course not. But sometimes people find out the hard way or sometimes nothing ever happens.
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  #42  
July 9th, 2012, 07:15 AM
foxfire_ga79
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A couple of things I don't see mentioned very often on lists that show which dog breeds bite most often are what kind of people owned it/what living conditions it had, and how the breed ranks in popularity.
It seems that these things go in phases as breeds rise and fall on the popularity lists. When Rotts were super popular, there were lots of Rott bites reported on the news.
Also, you have to look at how the dog was bred and raised. Check out Atlanta's pet section on Craig's List and take a look at the ads for litters of pit bull puppies. The ads brag about Razr's Edge bloodlines and being "game bred."
There are hundreds of puppies getting pumped out in this manner. The good breeders who want good tempered well behaved pit bulls are painfully outnumbered. Then you have to look at what kind of person seeks out a game bred pit bull puppy. Do you think it's the normal people looking for a good family pet? It's probably the kind of people who want bragging rights for having a dog that's badazz.

The lists that show what dogs bite most don't seem to mention if the dog that bit was kept chained. Chained dogs are 2.8 times more likely to bite than dogs kept properly.
The National Humane Education Society -Companion Animals>:Unchain Me

Many people also don't know that pit bulls actually pass temperament testing more often than other breeds that aren't labeled as "mean."
Are Pit Bulls Dangerous? | PitBulls

Quote:
American Pit Bull Terriers passed the test at a rate of 85.3%.

This is higher than Collies, Golden Retrievers, and other dogs generally considered "family friendly". The average dog population is around 77%.
And...

Quote:
As most dog behaviorists and trainers will tell you, a dog is almost 100% a product of it's owner and the training it recieves.
So that goes back to, what type of person owns the pit bull. People who want to brag about their badazz dogs don't go for poodles, and dogs like chihuahuas aren't usually kept chained up.

So when you're reading lists about what dogs are most dangerous and bite most, do ask yourself those questions, and remember that pit bulls have a very high capacity to be good family dogs when in the right hands.
Unlike sharks, dogs are man made creatures.
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  #43  
July 9th, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Those lists really and truly anger me. To no end.
I realize that some breeds are known to be more aggresive than others, but honestly here people. If you socialize a dog properly, and care for that dog properly you won't have any issues.
A Great Dane as aggresive? Really!? Has anyone ever heard about a Great Dane? They're known as the big friendly giants. And a St. Bernard? Really? Lets get real here people. I own a Husky and have owned a Malamute, and have never really heard of them having aggression issues. Pit bulls and Dalmations yes.

A dog should never be left alone with a child. I don't care what breed it is, it's just not smart. People who leave any animal alone with their child need to have a firm talking to. I don't care if you own the calmest pet in the world, everyone and everything has a breaking point.

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  #44  
July 9th, 2012, 02:30 PM
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Statistics show in the city I live in, the most likely to bite is the Yorkshire Terrier. They are the #1 breed put to sleep here for the 2 bite rule. *shrug*

I can tell you why... its the people that own them and dont train them... not the breed.

Dogs are not sharks. Sharks are wild animals, dogs are not.
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  #45  
July 9th, 2012, 06:18 PM
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Certain breeds are genetically predisposed to being more aggressive than others.

Thank you for also telling me that sharks are wild animals even though I remember learning that in preschool. Dogs can also be wild and feral as well, they are in the canine family with wolves, wolves being the ancestor.

Yeah, dogs are domesticated, but they are still animals with animal behavior pertaining to its DNA.
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  #46  
July 9th, 2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tasha.B View Post
Those lists really and truly anger me. To no end.
I realize that some breeds are known to be more aggresive than others, but honestly here people. If you socialize a dog properly, and care for that dog properly you won't have any issues.
A Great Dane as aggresive? Really!? Has anyone ever heard about a Great Dane? They're known as the big friendly giants. And a St. Bernard? Really? Lets get real here people. I own a Husky and have owned a Malamute, and have never really heard of them having aggression issues. Pit bulls and Dalmations yes. But but but but, you just said that none of them have aggression issues unless socialized and cared for properly. So what you're saying is that anyone that owns a dalmation or pit bull are not raising them properly but people that own a st. bernard or great dane are raising them properly?

A dog should never be left alone with a child. I don't care what breed it is, it's just not smart. People who leave any animal alone with their child need to have a firm talking toLOL, I had a gold fish left alone with my child. I'm waiting for my firm talk.. I don't care if you own the calmest pet in the world, everyone and everything has a breaking point. Even though humans raised it properly?


Yeah. These pictures are always great. My favorite when they start circulating around facebook!
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  #47  
July 9th, 2012, 07:05 PM
angelsailor288's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Pitbulls are not bred to be more aggressive. Any dog that was aggressive towards humans was taken out of the breeding stock.
They are called Nanny Dogs for a reason.
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  #48  
July 9th, 2012, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by angelsailor288 View Post
Pitbulls are not bred to be more aggressive. Any dog that was aggressive towards humans was taken out of the breeding stock.
They are called Nanny Dogs for a reason.
OK. I don't think you're even reading anything that has been written.
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  #49  
July 9th, 2012, 07:34 PM
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There are so many lists and "studies" about what breeds are aggressive, etc...
At the end of the day, it is an individual dog thing.
Many "dangerous" breeds make excellent family pets and many "friendly" breeds make horrible family pets.

Any dog can inflict damage, even those little things. People simply need to properly socialize and train any dog they have, properly supervise it in all situations and it would pretty amazing the reduction of attacks and dogs needing to be rehomed, put down or dumped in shelters.

Dogs are not tricky creatures. Physical and mental stimulation, good food, routine vet care, training and seem cuddles = a happy well adjusted dog.

I agree but disagree with lists of dangerous dogs breeds, cause for me at the end of the day, it's moot point with the proper energy put in. Also not breeding unstable dogs helps reduce the predisposing to behavior issues.

Sometimes that's why I think some breeds end up on lists... Pit bulls, GSD, Dalmations, Yorkies, etc are all over bred. Poor conformed dogs with unstable personalities are bred and then sold and then bred again. Meaning there is a higher % of overly shy, overly aggressive, overly dominant dogs in the gene pool.

Its a bad cycle, people need to breed responsibly. I'm not against joe smith breeding his own dogs, just against joe smith breeding his timid or dominant or aggressive dog.
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  #50  
July 9th, 2012, 07:42 PM
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Ill also point out that how mommy dog acts to her wee ones does infusnce personality. A good mom will instill good boundaries about who alpha is...
A bad momma wont and some dogs will use that to their advantage. They become overy dominant because no one told them NO at a really young age.

Good owners can overcome that part, but sometimes (more often then not) owners think its cute when puppy fido guards his toys, and food and humps legs and acts all top dog like.

I have two dogs that had improper doggie parenting.. One was taken too soon and was never turfed off his high horse till i came along (he was 12 and dominant agreesive biter) he's much better, and now gets that he is a little white fluffy dog, not a huge butch manly dog.
The other dog, is dense when it comes to other dogs telling her to stop and back off. She doesnt get playing rough and being asked to go away. She things growling and snipping from another dog is an invitation to play more .... Its been very hard to help her develope a doggie sense. She also doesn't get doggie hierarchy. There are no alphas in her mind, no low dude on the totem pole.... Everyone is friends and playthings.
All the other pups from the litter are similar, and a few are also quite dominant and or shy
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  #51  
July 9th, 2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
OK. I don't think you're even reading anything that has been written.
Uhm I am. You said they are prone to be more aggressive, that is false.
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  #52  
July 9th, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Those lists really and truly anger me. To no end.
I realize that some breeds are known to be more aggresive than others, but honestly here people. If you socialize a dog properly, and care for that dog properly you won't have any issues.
A Great Dane as aggresive? Really!? Has anyone ever heard about a Great Dane? They're known as the big friendly giants. And a St. Bernard? Really? Lets get real here people. I own a Husky and have owned a Malamute, and have never really heard of them having aggression issues. Pit bulls and Dalmations yes. But but but but, you just said that none of them have aggression issues unless socialized and cared for properly. So what you're saying is that anyone that owns a dalmation or pit bull are not raising them properly but people that own a st. bernard or great dane are raising them properly?
Awe, way to take this statement and just run with it. First of all, if you had read all the words, I said "I hadn't heard of those breeds having aggression issues, but had heard of Pit Bulls and Dalmations apparently having aggression issues. Not once did I say that I believed with them beeing aggresive thank you.
A dog should never be left alone with a child. I don't care what breed it is, it's just not smart. People who leave any animal alone with their child need to have a firm talking toLOL, I had a gold fish left alone with my child. I'm waiting for my firm talk.. I don't care if you own the calmest pet in the world, everyone and everything has a breaking point. Even though humans raised it properly? Everyone, and everything has a breaking point. All human beings can only take so much and the same goes for animals. Regardless of raising. You have a breaking point and so do I. It will differ between the two of us, but we both have one.
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  #53  
July 10th, 2012, 04:13 AM
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Again, some of you still can't accept that certain breeds are predisposed to being more aggressive. Of course not all of them will act as such, but they are predisposed. I don't understand why some of you just can't accept that. Artificial selection can't always be perfect and make you your perfect doggy angel genes. But anyway, this is going around in circles. Nice debate.
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  #54  
July 10th, 2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Again, some of you still can't accept that certain breeds are predisposed to being more aggressive. Of course not all of them will act as such, but they are predisposed. I don't understand why some of you just can't accept that. Artificial selection can't always be perfect and make you your perfect doggy angel genes. But anyway, this is going around in circles. Nice debate.

... Why is it so hard for you to accept that some don't fully believe the accuracy of dangerous breed lists because of the the sheer number of unstable dogs bred.

Most "dangerous" dogs didn't start off people people agreesive, they were bred for hunting animals. And even then aggression towards people wasn't wasn't a trait that was desired. Strength, bravery and stability was sought after.

Now that's not the case most of the time now. Most hunting dogs are not out hunting bears, and boars, and cougars, etc.
They are coped up in the house with limited stimulation and poor training. Put a high energy pit bull or a high energy Dalmation or a border collie in these situations of course "agression" either fear based or dominance based will show itself.

Like it or not, I don't quite believe those lists. While I believe some breeds are bred to "stronger minded and willed", I'll never believe agression towards people was something people went for when developing breeds.

Nowadays IMO dogs "breeds" are agreesive towards people simply because their needs are not being met and agreesive or unstable dogs are being bred. So of course number of attacks are going to go up with more numbers of mean and bored dogs around.

Some breeds and just some dogs are also more reactive by nature and that can lead to attacks. Wake a lightening quick dog out of a deep sleep, and you risk a bite. You bully a already tense or nervous dogs... Your again likely to get bit.

Some of us view dog breeds in a different light. I don't get why that's seeming to frustrate you. Most of us are saying any dog can be agreesive and shouldn't be left with children unsupervised. I just don't get why it's so bad there people who interpret those dangerous breed lists differently.
You take a dog, don't meet it's needs and it's a recipe for it to attack someone. This goes for any breed.

Id love to see these lists after a change in dealing with/ training/ socializing and excersing all dogs takes place. Then we would be able to see the truth about what breeds are "more" agreesive.
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  #55  
July 10th, 2012, 02:52 PM
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  #56  
July 10th, 2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
But statistics show that certain breeds for example, your pitbull, IS more aggressive/dangerous. Again, like certain breeds of sharks are more aggressive/dangerous, even when raised by people in an aquarium. It's part of their DNA, anecdotal stories and life experiences can't change that, really. Am I saying your dog is going to maul your entire family's faces? No. But the odds of happening is higher compared to a bassett hound.

ETA: People leave their baby alone with the family pet all the time. It's not like it doesn't happen, but most people really do trust their animal/dog so much that they just know nothing would happen. Is it the safest route? Of course not. But sometimes people find out the hard way or sometimes nothing ever happens.
That is 100% false.

"Myth: Pit Bulls are vicious to people or more dangerous than other dogs.

Reality: There is no room for human aggression in a behaviorally sound Pit Bull, and the reality is that most Pit Bulls are not aggressive toward people; many are extremely sociable and adore children. A Pit Bull who passes a behavioral evaluation poses no more of a threat to people than any other large dog. The American Temperament Test (see The American Temperament Society at www.atts.org) shows that Pit Bulls consistently score above the average for all breeds tested over the years. As of December 2007, American Pit Bull Terriers had a pass rate of 84.3 percent compared to a pass rate for all breeds tested of 81.6 percent."
Pit Bulls: The Myths, the Legends, the Reality : Adopting a Pit Bull: Before You Adopt


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Certain breeds are genetically predisposed to being more aggressive than others.

Thank you for also telling me that sharks are wild animals even though I remember learning that in preschool. Dogs can also be wild and feral as well, they are in the canine family with wolves, wolves being the ancestor.

Yeah, dogs are domesticated, but they are still animals with animal behavior pertaining to its DNA.
That is 100% false.

"Pit Bulls are dangerous to humans because of their brutal and aggressive nature.
MYTH: While pit bulls can be aggressive with other dogs, they are naturally kind and loving with humans.
They were originally bred to be fighting dogs—meaning while they can be aggressive with one another, they
needed to be obedient to their owners and gentle around humans."
Shortywood Productions / Shorty's Rescue / Pit Boss Shorty Rossi

"Myth: Pit bulls are inherently mean and vicious. Pit Bulls by nature are not mean and vicious-they are very sweet and friendly. They are easily trainable and respond well to commands which can change their happy go lucky personality into something monstrous. Their desire to please, paired with their strength, high prey drive and malleability make them a great candidate for use as guard and attack dogs and in fighting rings. "
Pit Bulls: Myths and Facts About Dangerous Dogs - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey... Where's Perry? View Post
Again, some of you still can't accept that certain breeds are predisposed to being more aggressive. Of course not all of them will act as such, but they are predisposed. I don't understand why some of you just can't accept that. Artificial selection can't always be perfect and make you your perfect doggy angel genes. But anyway, this is going around in circles. Nice debate.
That is 100% false.
Please please please show me a link to something that says a american pitbull terrier has different DNA or anything like that to be any different than any other dog in terms of being aggressive towards humans. (there is a difference in animal vs human agressiveness. Many dogs are bred to be animal agressive in terms of hunting, fighting, protection, etc)

I'm actually shocked that people *still* believe that.

ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist - The Truth About Pit Bulls
American Pit Bull Terrier, Pit Bulls, Pitbulls
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Last edited by HappyHippy; July 10th, 2012 at 09:48 PM.
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  #57  
July 11th, 2012, 07:50 AM
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That is 100% false.

"Myth: Pit Bulls are vicious to people or more dangerous than other dogs.

Reality: There is no room for human aggression in a behaviorally sound Pit Bull, and the reality is that most Pit Bulls are not aggressive toward people; many are extremely sociable and adore children. A Pit Bull who passes a behavioral evaluation poses no more of a threat to people than any other large dog. The American Temperament Test (see The American Temperament Society at www.atts.org) shows that Pit Bulls consistently score above the average for all breeds tested over the years. As of December 2007, American Pit Bull Terriers had a pass rate of 84.3 percent compared to a pass rate for all breeds tested of 81.6 percent."
Pit Bulls: The Myths, the Legends, the Reality : Adopting a Pit Bull: Before You Adopt




That is 100% false.

"Pit Bulls are dangerous to humans because of their brutal and aggressive nature.
MYTH: While pit bulls can be aggressive with other dogs, they are naturally kind and loving with humans.
They were originally bred to be fighting dogs—meaning while they can be aggressive with one another, they
needed to be obedient to their owners and gentle around humans."
Shortywood Productions / Shorty's Rescue / Pit Boss Shorty Rossi

"Myth: Pit bulls are inherently mean and vicious. Pit Bulls by nature are not mean and vicious-they are very sweet and friendly. They are easily trainable and respond well to commands which can change their happy go lucky personality into something monstrous. Their desire to please, paired with their strength, high prey drive and malleability make them a great candidate for use as guard and attack dogs and in fighting rings. "
Pit Bulls: Myths and Facts About Dangerous Dogs - Yahoo! Voices - voices.yahoo.com



That is 100% false.
Please please please show me a link to something that says a american pitbull terrier has different DNA or anything like that to be any different than any other dog in terms of being aggressive towards humans. (there is a difference in animal vs human agressiveness. Many dogs are bred to be animal agressive in terms of hunting, fighting, protection, etc)

I'm actually shocked that people *still* believe that.

ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist - The Truth About Pit Bulls
American Pit Bull Terrier, Pit Bulls, Pitbulls



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  #58  
July 11th, 2012, 08:26 PM
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Liking it just doesn't seem to do it justice. This post makes me happy. I'm so sick of people blaming the dog.
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  #59  
July 12th, 2012, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by LucyLoved View Post
My dog is so very important to me. But I would re-home him in a heartbeat if I found out my girls were allergic, or he got old and bit, etc. Humans come before animals, as long as it is done humanely.
The idea that humans come before everything else is elitist and entitled, and is also the reason our natural environment is crumbling around us. Just because I can think and talk doesn't mean my needs are more important than any other living thing on this planet, because without every other living thing on this planet my ecosystem would collapse and I wouldn't be able to live.

If the most important people in your home are the smartest, does that mean you would trade the life or your least intelligent child for the life of your most intelligent child? I know my example is extreme, but I don't think you can say that a smart person's feelings are any more acute then a stupid person's feelings. It sounds to me like you are arguing that you are more important then your dog because you are a person, and therefore more intelligent?

When you invite a living creature into your family it shouldn't matter if they have the intelligence of a human being or not, what should matter is that they have feelings just as acute as a child's and if you can't respect that then don't get one.



Finally, I see a lot of talk of allergies on this thread - are you guys aware that research supports the fact that children raised in homes with pets are significantly more unlikely to develop allergies to their environment or animals?
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  #60  
July 12th, 2012, 08:15 AM
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I'm in the camp with those who believe that their children come before their pets. As my children and I are the same species, its my natural instinct.
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