Log In Sign Up

When children and pets don't mix.....


Forum: Heated Debates

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to boards@justmommies.com.

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Like Tree40Likes

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Heated Debates LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #61  
July 12th, 2012, 10:21 AM
Dhartanya's Avatar Paleo Mommy-to-be
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Delta, BC
Posts: 2,391
Quote:
Originally Posted by one.juniper View Post
The idea that humans come before everything else is elitist and entitled, and is also the reason our natural environment is crumbling around us. Just because I can think and talk doesn't mean my needs are more important than any other living thing on this planet, because without every other living thing on this planet my ecosystem would collapse and I wouldn't be able to live.

If the most important people in your home are the smartest, does that mean you would trade the life or your least intelligent child for the life of your most intelligent child? I know my example is extreme, but I don't think you can say that a smart person's feelings are any more acute then a stupid person's feelings. It sounds to me like you are arguing that you are more important then your dog because you are a person, and therefore more intelligent?

When you invite a living creature into your family it shouldn't matter if they have the intelligence of a human being or not, what should matter is that they have feelings just as acute as a child's and if you can't respect that then don't get one.



Finally, I see a lot of talk of allergies on this thread - are you guys aware that research supports the fact that children raised in homes with pets are significantly more unlikely to develop allergies to their environment or animals?

How is it elitist and entitled to rehome a pet that isn't working out despite trying different things.
How isnt it entitled or elitist to kennel an aggressive dog 24-7 despite training and attempts to correct the problem instead of finding a better situation for it.
How isnt it elitist or entitled to keep a pet when your child developes serious allergies and is miserable and sick all the time? And may develope dangerous complications such as asthma?

Despite best efforts and intentions, there are times after trying different things that it is in no way a bad thing to find a better home for a pet.
I'm am against simply abandoning animals for these reasons but taking the time to find a good home is totally fine and acceptable.

Anyone who endandgers their child (severe allergies or an aggressive dog) and the kid gets hurt or ends up very sick, should be prosecuted with child neglect or abuse. It's against the law to allow your child to be in an unhealthy environment or a dangerous one.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #62  
July 12th, 2012, 10:25 AM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 26,547
Send a message via MSN to plan4fate
Quote:
Originally Posted by one.juniper View Post
The idea that humans come before everything else is elitist and entitled, and is also the reason our natural environment is crumbling around us. Just because I can think and talk doesn't mean my needs are more important than any other living thing on this planet, because without every other living thing on this planet my ecosystem would collapse and I wouldn't be able to live.

If the most important people in your home are the smartest, does that mean you would trade the life or your least intelligent child for the life of your most intelligent child? I know my example is extreme, but I don't think you can say that a smart person's feelings are any more acute then a stupid person's feelings. It sounds to me like you are arguing that you are more important then your dog because you are a person, and therefore more intelligent?

When you invite a living creature into your family it shouldn't matter if they have the intelligence of a human being or not, what should matter is that they have feelings just as acute as a child's and if you can't respect that then don't get one.



Finally, I see a lot of talk of allergies on this thread - are you guys aware that research supports the fact that children raised in homes with pets are significantly more unlikely to develop allergies to their environment or animals?


regardless of the research out there, IF a child is ALLERGIC to a pet, the parent has a choice. Medication, letting the kid suffer, or rehome the pet.

It'd also probably be unfair to the pet as many people I know who have pets and an allergy confine their animals for extremely long periods of time, or submit them to allergen washes, harsh brushing, or shave the animal. Plus side fluffy gets to stay! down side she's been doused with hefty chemicals, had her fur shaved off and gets to have a groomer pull what's left out with a brush. But it's ok cause she gets to stay right?

My kids will always come first. I know what it's like to live in a house with a pet you are allergic too. As an adult I have the knowledge and ability to pop a claritin, have a shower and go hide and I'm still going to be suffering the whole time as the medication (even RX strength) only works to a point. I can't even go in a bloody pet store near the rabbits with out knowing I'm going to look like I've just left a funeral with the red eyes and runny nose.
__________________
~TTC #1 together 2 years and counting ~


Awesome siggy made by Jaidynsmum

Me: Hashi's, PCOS, Insulin resistant, Multiple miscarriages
175mcg Synthyroid, 1500mg Metformin
Colposcopy = CIN1+CIN2 cells Polypectomy - August 21st
Him: MFI low count, low morphology, low motillity
Seeing MFI specialist/RE in 2015. Vitamins started August 2nd
Trying a few cycles of clomid and progesterone. FX this is all it takes.
Cycle 1: Clomid cd3-7 ~ bfn
Cycle 2: Clomid cd 3-7 ~ beta negative (< 3)
Reply With Quote
  #63  
July 12th, 2012, 07:01 PM
*Jennifer*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: California
Posts: 5,500
It is not elitist to put your child before your pet. We had to rehome our 3 parrots because we could not devote the time to them that they deserved. This was not a decision made lightly because all three of them had been with me before DH and I even got married.

Also, we did not not just give them to any old shmo off the street. All three went to one person, a parrot expert who we actually got one of our parrots from.

I should add in that another reason we gave the parrots away is because, like many other parrots, they were biters. I had been bitten numerous times, even having a beak go in one end of the tip of my finger and out the other end. Not a pretty sight. No way in h*ll was I going to take the chance that, once my son was mobile, he would be seriously injured by one of my pets. I don't care if I had them for 10 years before he came along.

Also, keeping a bird in a cage all day, locked in a room is extremely cruel, so the safety gate route was not an option.

So call me elitist if you want. Beats being called a neglectful parent any day.
__________________

Last edited by *Jennifer*; July 12th, 2012 at 07:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
July 12th, 2012, 10:02 PM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pavia, Italy
Posts: 5,959
I wish my neighbors would rehome their pets. They are animal hoarders, the dogs live in gross conditions (smells like pee when you walk past their house), rarely outside freely, etc. These dogs should be in a home where they are taken care of and have owners who love and respect them.
plan4fate likes this.
__________________
Mama to G, L & twins F & M
Started off 2013 homebirthing suprise twins Fia Celesta & Maddalena Isabella
Reply With Quote
  #65  
July 13th, 2012, 11:29 AM
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 132
Seriously?! THAT'S what you took from my response?

For your info, my dog is my SERVICE dog. I have a very deep attachment to him, and him to me. He was and is my baby before I got a human baby. In no way OTHER than LIFE is my child more important than my dog. MY children have severe lung issues due to being born addicted to drugs. If MY children were allergic to MY dog, I would have NO choice but to re-home my dog, or else my kids could DIE! My dog would be heartbroken and would likely never be the same again because of our bond. But he AND my child would be alive and well taken care of! It has NOTHING to do with intelligence levels!

And just to address your last paragraph: Are YOU aware that living with animals that you are allergic to ALREADY (because living with pets doesn't PREVENT allergies to it, NOR did your little "fact" take into account that many children are ADOPTED and did not spend their infancy around pets!) can be life-threatening? At the very least, miserable? No child should be forced to live with an animal they are allergic to, just as no animal should be forced to live with a child that is physically cruel to it. In both cases, the dog should be re-homed. I hope you're not saying that the child should be re-homed. Because if you are, I just wasted the time it took me to type this on a hopeless debate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by one.juniper View Post
The idea that humans come before everything else is elitist and entitled, and is also the reason our natural environment is crumbling around us. Just because I can think and talk doesn't mean my needs are more important than any other living thing on this planet, because without every other living thing on this planet my ecosystem would collapse and I wouldn't be able to live.

If the most important people in your home are the smartest, does that mean you would trade the life or your least intelligent child for the life of your most intelligent child? I know my example is extreme, but I don't think you can say that a smart person's feelings are any more acute then a stupid person's feelings. It sounds to me like you are arguing that you are more important then your dog because you are a person, and therefore more intelligent?

When you invite a living creature into your family it shouldn't matter if they have the intelligence of a human being or not, what should matter is that they have feelings just as acute as a child's and if you can't respect that then don't get one.



Finally, I see a lot of talk of allergies on this thread - are you guys aware that research supports the fact that children raised in homes with pets are significantly more unlikely to develop allergies to their environment or animals?
__________________
Lucy, Adoptive, Foster, and Foster-to-Adopt Mommy







Reply With Quote
  #66  
July 13th, 2012, 03:54 PM
The Truth is out There
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,616
Animals are awesome, wonderful and I would adopt them all if I could. However, when/if it comes to my child suffering or keeping the dog, I would rehome the dog.
Does that make me a terrible person? That I would rather keep my kid(s) than keep a dog?
I don't take adopting any animal lightly, I don't adopt any animal I don't intend to keep. But I'm not going to make my children suffer through their allergies because I refuse to rehome a pet.
I love my dog, he's great, but he's not human and he doesn't get the same treatment as a human would. I make him pee outside, when I leave the house, he is either put outside or put in his bedroom. (He's not trustworthy to leave alone in the house yet)
I don't get him presents for his birthday or Christmas. I do buy him treats and fun stuff, but he's NOT human.
That doesn't mean I beat him, or that at the first sneeze of my kid, I'm going to dump him out on the street like his previous owners did.
I LOVE animals, but in the end, he's still NOT human and I have to keep my family safe and happy. If my kid is sneezing, with watery eyes, and itchy all the time because of the family pet, they can't be happy.
That's just how it works. It'd be cruel to keep the dog outside all the time, but it'd also be cruel to keep my kid doped on meds all the time.
Push comes to shove, I'm keeping the kid.
__________________
~Brittany~



Reply With Quote
  #67  
July 17th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Sva Sva is offline
Regular
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 65
Anybody know of a good dog trainer who can help desensitize a dog to young kids and be there to help us introduce them when we bring a baby home? We have a generally very well trained dog who IS a valued member of the family, but he gets very concerned when kids come over or come toward our house and we need to separate them. We tried a behaviorist but $300 later she basically said it was a herding instinct/territorial protectiveness and didn't give any helpful tips. We've been trying to desensitize him for about a year by working on his normal obedience tricks and trying to keep his attention while we hold a doll and play baby sounds (which he's done with some success), but it is very hard to keep him from going nuts if we try the same from behind a fence when kids are outside playing on the other side of the fence. Now that I finally have a BFP (after two years of trying), I would like someone who can help us.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
July 17th, 2012, 07:05 PM
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sva
Anybody know of a good dog trainer who can help desensitize a dog to young kids and be there to help us introduce them when we bring a baby home? We have a generally very well trained dog who IS a valued member of the family, but he gets very concerned when kids come over or come toward our house and we need to separate them. We tried a behaviorist but $300 later she basically said it was a herding instinct/territorial protectiveness and didn't give any helpful tips. We've been trying to desensitize him for about a year by working on his normal obedience tricks and trying to keep his attention while we hold a doll and play baby sounds (which he's done with some success), but it is very hard to keep him from going nuts if we try the same from behind a fence when kids are outside playing on the other side of the fence. Now that I finally have a BFP (after two years of trying), I would like someone who can help us.
I can't help, but want to commend you for seeking options before you ever even got pregnant
Dhartanya likes this.
__________________
Lucy, Adoptive, Foster, and Foster-to-Adopt Mommy







Reply With Quote
  #69  
July 17th, 2012, 10:14 PM
foxfire_ga79
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sva View Post
Anybody know of a good dog trainer who can help desensitize a dog to young kids and be there to help us introduce them when we bring a baby home? We have a generally very well trained dog who IS a valued member of the family, but he gets very concerned when kids come over or come toward our house and we need to separate them. We tried a behaviorist but $300 later she basically said it was a herding instinct/territorial protectiveness and didn't give any helpful tips. We've been trying to desensitize him for about a year by working on his normal obedience tricks and trying to keep his attention while we hold a doll and play baby sounds (which he's done with some success), but it is very hard to keep him from going nuts if we try the same from behind a fence when kids are outside playing on the other side of the fence. Now that I finally have a BFP (after two years of trying), I would like someone who can help us.

My very first dog of my own when I was 17 and moved away from home was a border collie bully breed mix who was territorial and liked to herd. But she was protective of me while I was pregnant and I think she somehow knew when the baby was born that he was part of me and part of our pack. She saw him as something that needed to be protected, not that I needed to be protected from.
I'd also like to note that NILIF training (google that, it's more than I can explain here) is great and I use it on all my dogs. And just plain having a dog that does even as little as basic obedience is being taught that what you say goes. You have established yourselves as alpha and from what little you've written here it seems to me that you have little to be concerned about when it comes time for you to bring home a baby of your own. Dogs know who belongs in the house and who doesn't. Your baby won't be playing on the other side of the fence. Your baby will become a new member of your dog's pack, and he'll understand.
My last bit of advise is to not spent too much time trying to desensitize him. We fostered a Great Dane who was over desensitized and that was the root of all his problems. The people were getting rid of him because they were moving to Wales and the dog was classified as aggressive because of his past behaviors and would not be allowed into that country. These people kept him muzzled and harnessed for walks, and they put a cloth over his eyes to restrict his vision whenever they went on car rides. He was terribly over diagnosed and over treated.
As soon as he was in my care, no more muzzles, no more harnesses and no more restricting his vision. Within days he was interacting normally with all of my kids and the other Great Danes in our home, and in 2 weeks he was suitable to be rehomed to his forever family who have never had one problem out of him being too hyper or destructive. That dog went from neurotic to normal literally within days once we stopped over treating him. To teach a dog that something isn't a big deal and it's nothing to get upset about, you have to show them it's not a big deal and nothing to over react to.
If you are still having problems once Baby comes home, come on back and let us know and we'll get to looking for a trainer for you. If you were in Georgia I know exactly who I'd send you to. But I'm sure I can at least point you in the right direction no matter where you live. It won't be the first time I've made a referral.
Good luck, and congrats on being a really good furbaby-mama!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:47 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0