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Paid maternity leave yay or nay


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  #41  
July 23rd, 2012, 03:13 PM
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Exactly-paid maternity leave is not welfare. Therefore we shouldn't be handing it out! You are CHOOSING the "need" to recover from childbirth if you CHOOSE to have a kid! I don't think anyone is denying that women need some time to recover, but the question raised is should that time off be PAID time off? I still say no.

You are correct that not all those births are from working mothers, but they are still births and I would bet that if working mothers were all of a suddent getting paid time off that non working mothers would push for the working fathers to get paid time off since they wouldn't qualify for it. Sure, the leave pay may not be 100%, but I would bet that MOST working people make more than minimum wage, so I bet it would still be at least that much when you factor in each of those things.
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  #42  
July 23rd, 2012, 03:34 PM
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I know that around here the implementation of the paid maternity leave was used as an incentive to birth (not the right word but its as close as I can translate it). We are having problems with a population that is aging more rapidly than it is being 'replaced' and its causing both social and economical problems, Therefore more children is seen as a way to replace the workforce and create more tax payers.

So in a way, the government sees it as a good long term investment that will end up paying itself back in a couple years. Same goes with subsidized daycare: for every 1$ invested, the mother going back to work creates 1.04$.

I cannot speak for the population of Quebec but I'm used to contributing to social services and programs that I might or might not end up using. I contribute to health care services that I might never use or use a whole lot. I contribute to welfare that I plan on never using but might end up needing at some point in my life. The children that are born thanks to the maternity leave program will end up contributing to the general wealth of our province. It's hard to explain (especially trying to translate what's in my head) but I guess that when you've been brought up in a system like the one we have here, you don't feel like its unfair or a government intrusion. Just like when I read about how some people in the States are opposed to the government making laws that make bike helmets manditory I'm like: 'It's not an intrusion in your personal life, it's for the greater good!' but I totally understand that it's a completely different mindset, system and philosophy.

I hope I'm making sense.
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  #43  
July 24th, 2012, 05:57 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post


Maternity leave and being a SAHM are two different things.
No , its not. Maternity leave is being a sahm for a certain period of time. Whether its 6 weeks or 1 year. Regardless, the taxpayers should not be paying anyone to stay home with their children.
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  #44  
July 24th, 2012, 08:35 AM
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Maternity leave is for a woman to recover from childbirth. And paid maternity leave benefits the community, the employers, the mother and the baby. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I guess we just don't have the same mentality here as in the US.
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  #46  
July 24th, 2012, 09:16 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Maternity leave is for a woman to recover from childbirth. And paid maternity leave benefits the community, the employers, the mother and the baby. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I guess we just don't have the same mentality here as in the US.
Yes, we disagree.

I don't believe it is necessary for the taxpayers to pay mom or dad to stay home. Its an individuals choice to have children and should be their "responsibility" to take care of them physically and financially.
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  #47  
July 24th, 2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Maternity leave is for a woman to recover from childbirth. And paid maternity leave benefits the community, the employers, the mother and the baby. So we'll have to agree to disagree. I guess we just don't have the same mentality here as in the US.
Since you are so set on women needing extended periods of PAID time to be at home to recover from childbirth, do you have any sources showing that women need to be at home for a certain period of time after childbirth to heal?

Also, does that mean that people who need certain surgeries should be paid time off, too? Say you need a hysterectomy, should you get 1 year paid time off so that your body can recover from that event? I am just trying to understand WHY you're so set on women needing to be PAID to recover from childbirth.

Also, how does PAYING a woman to have a child benefit the community and her employer? I am pretty certain the ONLY people who benefit from that money is the woman and her family.
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  #48  
July 24th, 2012, 11:26 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Originally Posted by Babybear4 View Post
Also, how does PAYING a woman to have a child benefit the community and her employer? I am pretty certain the ONLY people who benefit from that money is the woman and her family.
And it really doesn't benefit her employer if she doesn't have a job in the first place.
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  #49  
July 24th, 2012, 11:33 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babybear4 View Post
Since you are so set on women needing extended periods of PAID time to be at home to recover from childbirth, do you have any sources showing that women need to be at home for a certain period of time after childbirth to heal?

All I have is my medical text books on healing time for childbirth. Women should not be lifting more than their infant, they should not be on their feet much of the day, they should have their feet up to help with blood flow, etc. If a woman is too stressed or doing too much stuff her lochia can increase which can cause all sorts of problems. Even if you're a SAHM you shouldn't be doing housework for the first few weeks atleast. If a employer can provide a woman with all that then ok, but most cannot. Even if you just sit at a desk, your feet should not be down like that the entire time.

Also, does that mean that people who need certain surgeries should be paid time off, too? Say you need a hysterectomy, should you get 1 year paid time off so that your body can recover from that event? I am just trying to understand WHY you're so set on women needing to be PAID to recover from childbirth.

Yes I believe that people, men or women, should have paid time off when they need a surgery. Like I said in previous posts, we pay into the system to be able to have money when we need it and cannot work. Maternity leave and sick leave are some of those things.

Also, how does PAYING a woman to have a child benefit the community and her employer? I am pretty certain the ONLY people who benefit from that money is the woman and her family.
U.S. Maternity Leave Benefits Are Still Dismal - Forbes.com

America Last Among Peers With No Paid Federal Maternity Leave - Bloomberg

Those 2 articles explain how having paid maternity leave has employer and community benefits.
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  #50  
July 24th, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
U.S. Maternity Leave Benefits Are Still Dismal - Forbes.com

America Last Among Peers With No Paid Federal Maternity Leave - Bloomberg

Those 2 articles explain how having paid maternity leave has employer and community benefits.
How does the government funding it for everyone benefit employers? Not everyone is employed.
The question from the first page
Quote:
Does that mean that you're against the government funding it for everybody so
every child can have the benefits of spending their first year at home with
their parent?
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  #51  
July 24th, 2012, 11:51 AM
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It helps employers because it helps women *stay* in the workforce rather than not going back to work. By having people working, producing products, etc it keeps/helps the economy rise, economy rising/keeping stable helps the community. If you don't work you're not paying into the system, but you are benefiting from the economy/community.

I don't think this concept would work in America, not because it can't, but because of the attitude Americans have. It's the "everyone for themselves" mentality.
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  #52  
July 24th, 2012, 11:59 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
It helps employers because it helps women *stay* in the workforce rather than not going back to work. By having people working, producing products, etc it keeps/helps the economy rise, economy rising/keeping stable helps the community. If you don't work you're not paying into the system, but you are benefiting from the economy/community.

I don't think this concept would work in America, not because it can't, but because of the attitude Americans have. It's the "everyone for themselves" mentality.
Or I could say that those who think the taxpayers should pay for their choices have the "all about me" entitlement mentality. The fact of the matter is that employers and taxpayers are not a bottomless pit of money. Adding more programs typically means higher taxes AND other programs are cut.....usually programs to those with special needs, mental health, and the elderly. So if people are going to continue advocating the neediness of mom's to collect welfare to take care of their children at the expense of the truly needy, let's re examine who really has the "everyone for themselves" mentality.
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  #53  
July 24th, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Sorry but when it comes right down to it, my belief is that family by far is the most important thing in life, when you try to compare you realize little else really matters. I am actually surprised that anyone would be against paid maternity leave. Some of the benefits to companies include saving them costs of recruitment and training.

This is a few years old, but still interesting USATODAY.com - U.S. stands apart from other nations on maternity leave

Only four countries have no national law mandating paid time off for new parents: Liberia, Papua New Guinea, Swaziland, and the United States

Parental leave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also very interesting when you consider some of the countries that do have it.
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  #54  
July 24th, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Or I could say that those who think the taxpayers should pay for their choices have the "all about me" entitlement mentality. The fact of the matter is that employers and taxpayers are not a bottomless pit of money. Adding more programs typically means higher taxes AND other programs are cut.....usually programs to those with special needs, mental health, and the elderly. So if people are going to continue advocating the neediness of mom's to collect welfare to take care of their children at the expense of the truly needy, let's re examine who really has the "everyone for themselves" mentality.
Like I said more than once, people in my community who are childless like the paid maternity leave benefit. They don't care that they pay into a system for things they will never use, because it is about bettering the community, not just ourself. I pay taxes, but I will not be able to use paid maternity leave since I work for myself, and yet I still think women deserve paid maternity leave. Luckily I already live in a country where that is available.

ETA: And just because it is available doesn't mean all working women who have kids takes a year off. Most of my friends only take 3-6 months off, enough time to feel recovered, bond, get rest and establish a good BFing supply (so she can pump without worrying about low supply).

Again like I said before paid maternity leave helps women remain in the workforce, it helps women BF longer with helps babies be healthier, which helps lower health care costs, which helps all citizens have good healthcare, which keeps the community healthier, which then does another circle.
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Last edited by HappyHippy; July 24th, 2012 at 12:51 PM.
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  #55  
July 24th, 2012, 01:05 PM
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At this point not being forced to return 6-12 weeks afterbirth with out fear of losing your job would be nice. i know a lot of people who would keep going on one income if they knew their job would still be there 6m down the road.
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  #56  
July 24th, 2012, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Like I said more than once, people in my community who are childless like the paid maternity leave benefit. They don't care that they pay into a system for things they will never use, because it is about bettering the community, not just ourself. I pay taxes, but I will not be able to use paid maternity leave since I work for myself, and yet I still think women deserve paid maternity leave. Luckily I already live in a country where that is available.

ETA: And just because it is available doesn't mean all working women who have kids takes a year off. Most of my friends only take 3-6 months off, enough time to feel recovered, bond, get rest and establish a good BFing supply (so she can pump without worrying about low supply).

Again like I said before paid maternity leave helps women remain in the workforce, it helps women BF longer with helps babies be healthier, which helps lower health care costs, which helps all citizens have good healthcare, which keeps the community healthier, which then does another circle.
All the things you mention women needing can easily be solved by women being allowed to take up to a year or even more off withOUT pay. I would be fine with employers being told they have to allow a woman a year to come back and have her job still available to her. They can hire a temp and make that person permanent if the mother decides not to come back.
Time to heal and paychecks are not the same thing. Yes, women need more TIME. No, we don't need more of other people's MONEY.
Many people can make it baby's first year with just 1 parent's pay check. The reason women go back to work too early is because they know they won't have a job waiting for them at all if they don't go back in 6 weeks.

And another thing. It's well beyond obnoxious being told that America is just an every man for himself country when it's being said by people who want everything provided to them by the government. Gimme health care, gimme a paid year off work every time I have a baby, gimme more more more benefits. Is there anything that Europeans don't want the government to tax and redistribute?
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  #57  
July 24th, 2012, 01:43 PM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Like I said more than once, people in my community who are childless like the paid maternity leave benefit. They don't care that they pay into a system for things they will never use, because it is about bettering the community, not just ourself. I pay taxes, but I will not be able to use paid maternity leave since I work for myself, and yet I still think women deserve paid maternity leave. Luckily I already live in a country where that is available.

ETA: And just because it is available doesn't mean all working women who have kids takes a year off. Most of my friends only take 3-6 months off, enough time to feel recovered, bond, get rest and establish a good BFing supply (so she can pump without worrying about low supply).

Again like I said before paid maternity leave helps women remain in the workforce, it helps women BF longer with helps babies be healthier, which helps lower health care costs, which helps all citizens have good healthcare, which keeps the community healthier, which then does another circle.
I can't argue attitudes in your country because I don't know where you live or the impact social services have on your economy. I'm just not big on the lack of personal responsibility.

In the US, the economy is in rough shape. We cannot afford to keep expecting the taxpayers to pay for "one more thing" because it sounds good, or nice, or its for the children. When people who have disabilities have to wait for 2 or 3 or 7 years for services to become available due to lack of funding, it doesn't make sense to add in another program that taxpayers can't pay for.
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  #59  
July 24th, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Just to be clear.... In the US, FMLA covers the time off of work & the protection of your job. Not any maternity leave benefits. You are protected for 12 weeks. It also covers leave for care of spouse, parent or yourself for seriously illness.

Companies chose to give an amount of paid maternity leave as part of their benefits packages but it isn't required.
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  #60  
July 24th, 2012, 09:05 PM
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It's easy to believe what you want when you don't live here. But it's rather stupid to be so ignorant about something when you DID actually live here not long ago, in this very same system you are bashing relentlessly and pretending isn't in the financial crisis it is.
You haven't exactly been living out of the US very long. So the whole... "Americans are so me, me, me" crap just totally rubs me the wrong way. You are a **** American, you just don't live here right now.

I think I shall leave this thread be now.
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