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  #21  
July 29th, 2012, 03:26 PM
Frozenoj's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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As far as marriage being religious, I really don't think it is. At least it isn't only religious, it is just as much a social institution. Atheists get to be "married" and don't have to have only a civil union. So if someone wants to have a marriage ceremony, even if it isn't officiated by a religious figure, they should be able to. I don't think people should be able to force churches to marry them, but church isn't the only place to have a wedding. Just like protestants don't have to change their terminology just because Catholics don't like it, non-religious people shouldn't have to because religious people in general don't like it.
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  #22  
July 29th, 2012, 03:38 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenoj View Post
As far as marriage being religious, I really don't think it is. At least it isn't only religious, it is just as much a social institution. Atheists get to be "married" and don't have to have only a civil union. So if someone wants to have a marriage ceremony, even if it isn't officiated by a religious figure, they should be able to. I don't think people should be able to force churches to marry them, but church isn't the only place to have a wedding. Just like protestants don't have to change their terminology just because Catholics don't like it, non-religious people shouldn't have to because religious people in general don't like it.

Well I guess that's what I'm trying to say and I'm just not saying it very well and being too semantic about it. Marriage, wedding, union, joining--Is all going to vary so much depending on who you ask. I have very firm beliefs about what I think marriage is and isn't. But I don't get to decide that for anybody else, I only get to decide what I think of it as.
And neither does the government. I feel that the government should join anybody who wants it. I won't call it "marriage" just like the Catholic church doesn't think I'm married.
I hope that makes sense.
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  #23  
July 29th, 2012, 03:46 PM
foxfire_ga79
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ETA---The reason I think of marriage as being separate from civil union has a lot to do with what my German teacher told us when I was in 7th grade. She told us that in Germany it's 2 separate things. She said that everybody who wants government recognition had to go in front of a magistrate whether they got married in a church or not. After that, people could get married in a church if they wanted to, but didn't have to.
This was way before the gay marriage debate, but I just remember thinking back then that that really made a lot of sense to me. I was already aware that some people could or couldn't get married in certain churches, because my mom was Catholic and my dad Methodist. It seemed that keeping religion completely out of government is more fair.
Ever since then, I've really thought of marriage being religious and separate from civil actions. Blame my German teacher!
I guess I really am being too semantic, but my opinion was formed when I was 12 for crying out loud.
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  #24  
July 29th, 2012, 03:55 PM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybele View Post
.

I don't care what someone's personal beliefs are, but when large sums of money come into play from businesses, I do care, very much. If Chick-fil-a, in this example, had their opinion, but used their money solely for their company, or donated to other organisations that only do positive things, then I would not care, as soon as a company donates towards oppression, there is a problem.

.
Do you buy products that are made in China? India?
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Last edited by Tammyjh; July 29th, 2012 at 04:01 PM.
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  #25  
July 29th, 2012, 03:59 PM
Frozenoj's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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To me the difference is between marriage and sacramental marriage. Anybody can get married, but unless they follow certain religious guidelines they won't get the spiritual benefits of marriage. Does that make sense?
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  #26  
July 29th, 2012, 04:02 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenoj View Post
To me the difference is between marriage and sacramental marriage. Anybody can get married, but unless they follow certain religious guidelines they won't get the spiritual benefits of marriage. Does that make sense?
Yes!! That's exactly what I mean.
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  #27  
July 29th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Frozenoj's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I thought it might be.
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  #30  
July 30th, 2012, 09:30 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Again, do you buy products that are manufactured in China? Do you buy from companies who sell products that are manufactured in China?
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  #32  
July 30th, 2012, 10:22 AM
The Truth is out There
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Quote:
Originally Posted by childofmusic View Post
So I'm suppossed to tolerate a company that hates me? Because that's what this is. This is hate. This isn't "Hey this goes against my own personal beliefes", this is a huge company coming out and saying "We activley work against one group of people having the same rights as everyone else, aren't we swell". If they donated money to the KKK, would that be alright? I mean, it's their money. Why can't they give it to the KKK? They aren't banning blacks from their resturants after all. Just giving their money to a hate group. That's all.
Honest question here- You're the 2nd person to compare Chik-Fil-A to the KKK. Why? I honestly don't see any similarities between those who are against gay rights and those who are in the KKK.
If you ask me, there's a big difference. When was the last time you or your partner were dragged from your house and forced to watch a cross burn in your front yard? How many gay/lesbians have you known that were literally tarred and feathered?

Please understand, I'm not trying to downplay what you're going through, I'm just curious as to how it's comparable with what the KKK does.

I've also heard anti-gay people compared to Hitler. How does that make sense? Hitler killed millions of people, and while you might not be able to get married, it's not the same at all.

I'm honestly not trying to attack you, so please don't take it that way. But if you do, whatever. It's not going to bother me.




As far as the original topic goes, I'm still holding to the view that "It's okay to have an opinion, as long as it's the one everyone wants you to have."

If Boston refused to let Starbucks open there because they're gay friendly, do you know the outrage that would happen? (Let me also point out that Boston can not stop Chik-Fil-A from opening there, and the Mayor has already retracted his words)

I support Chik-Fil-A for standing firm on their beliefs. I also support Oreo for standing firm on their beliefs. They both stand to lose money, but they are both standing firm. Good for them.
But please, label me as anti-gay, as a hating, terrible person because I am glad to see Chik-Fil-A stand for what they believe in. Did I say once that I believed that? No. I said that I'm glad to see a company stand firm in their opinion regardless of the consequences.
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  #33  
July 30th, 2012, 10:37 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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My point is that the Chick Fil A controversy is just a smoke screen. Rahm Emanuel is saying he doesn't want them in Chicago because the CEO has an opinion he doesn't share. But, he's more than happy to welcome Louis Farrakhan(sp)to help "clean up" the city even though he makes no attempt to hide the fact that he is an anti semite. Hypocritical? Definitely. Is anyone making a big deal about Rahm's statements, not many. Politicians are fueling the fire against CFA but support borrowing money from a country where homosexuals have little to no rights and have to hide. They also have a lot of human rights violations. We buy products that are made in India where womens rights are violated all the time. But a few loud mouthed politicians have decided that we need to make an example of CFA over a statement made and in true form, the sheeple follow and ignore the bigger problems. This is not really about gay marriage at all. Its about politics and pandering for votes.

And yes, I buy locally as much as possible too.
We don't have CFA here but have eaten there in the past when I lived elsewhere. Even though I voted in support of gay marriage in my state(and will again), over the weekend, I wanted to go to a CFA because of how the controversy is out of control. While I don't agree with the CEO, I value free speech and politicians stating that they(singular) will not allow a company to come to their city because they don't agree with the owners opinion is a serious threat to freedom.
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  #35  
July 30th, 2012, 10:57 AM
~*Nicole*~'s Avatar Nicole
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Hi, new here

Anyway, I am all for gay marriage between consenting adults. That being said, I don't see how it's any surprise that a Christian company supports traditional marriage. I understand why some people would choose not to spend their money there, but I think it's a bit extreme to boycott the company. They claim not to discriminate against anyone and until I see proof to the contrary, I don't see any reason to buy into the hype.

I also think that the whole thing is pretty hypocritical. I wonder how many people who are boycotting Chik-Fil-A because they are all about human rights own anything made by Apple. Earlier this year there were quite a few articles about how the iPhones people love so much are being made by children forced to work 24 hour days making what would be pocket change to us. That's just one company. How much of the stuff that we buy is being made in the same way? How much of your money is going directly into the pockets of people who force children to work in horrendous conditions? Child labor issues are just the tip of the iceburg of horrible human rights issues in China and most people have no problem financially supporting them.
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  #36  
July 30th, 2012, 11:18 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by childofmusic View Post
Hate is hate. No I've never been dragged out of my house. But I have had my car keyed (dy.ke, haters are never creative). No, I've never been tared and feathered. But I did sit with a good friend in a coma after he was attacked outside a gay bar. I have attened funerals of those who couldn't take the hate any longer and took their own lives.

Gay hate crimes are very real. And they really happen. And BTW the KKK hates us too. They basically hate everyone who isn't them.

Hitler killed gays too. (a lot of people are unaware of this fact, but it's where the pink triange comes from)

?
Hitler also had those with special needs, mental and physically handicapped killed or sterilized as well. He basically had it in for anyone who he did not believe had a certain "pedigree".
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  #37  
July 30th, 2012, 11:40 AM
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1st, I have to say it drives me bonkers when Christian is used to encompass all Christian beliefs. I'm Christian & my Christian Church (which has over 4 mil members in the U.S.) is supportive of gays & gay marriage! So not all Christians are against it. Oh I'm ELCA in case anyone one wants to verify.

2nd, the guy has a right to believe what he wants & say what he wants. We don't have to agree with it or like it. Eating at Chic-fil-A is a choice. I choose not to eat there.

Marriage in the US is not just a religious sacrament. When a man & a woman get married at city hall, we don't call that a civil union. We call it a marriage & it comes with all the legal rights that a church married couple gets.

It pains me that a man & a woman can legally get married & have all the insurance benefits etc and their marriage won't last. But a gay couple can be together for 30 years & not have any rights. A gay person can be totally shut out of life & death decisions for their partner if their partner's family chooses. They can even be refused right to the funeral & burial. Can you imagine being told that you have no say over your spouses funeral & that you have no right to grieve????
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  #38  
July 30th, 2012, 11:42 AM
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Hate crimes against homosexuals are pretty brutal, which is probably why they compare it to the KKK. Most people wouldn't dream of going to a place that supported the KKK, but anti-gay? Meh, who cares.

You just google gay hate crimes and you'll see all the news stories pop up. Mathew Shepard is always the one that stays in my mind when I talk about crimes against gays. He was beaten and left for dead tied up at a feild post. He died because he was gay.
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  #39  
July 30th, 2012, 12:19 PM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Hate crimes against homosexuals are pretty brutal, which is probably why they compare it to the KKK. Most people wouldn't dream of going to a place that supported the KKK, but anti-gay? Meh, who cares.
You just google gay hate crimes and you'll see all the news stories pop up. Mathew Shepard is always the one that stays in my mind when I talk about crimes against gays. He was beaten and left for dead tied up at a feild post. He died because he was gay.
Yes, unfortunately hate crimes happen in all walks of life and should not be tolerated. But having an opinion against gay marriage is in no way comparable to torture, and murder or the KKK, Hitler, etcc.....
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  #40  
July 30th, 2012, 12:41 PM
foxfire_ga79
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CFA is not supporting groups that condone violence!! Seriously! Saying that you believe marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman is not saying you think anybody else needs their a s s kicked. By that logic you'd think that CFA is supporting polygamists getting beaten and killed. CFA is against their marriages too.
I support CFA in this because I support free speech when it's not hate speech or inciting violence. Saying you believe marriage is very specific is NOT the same as saying someone deserves to have violent crimes committed against them.

And another thing, people don't commit suicide because of what other people do. Most bullied kids will never commit suicide. Most people do not consider suicide as an option to escape their problems. The people that do consider suicide as an option have something wrong like depression or some other problem that can and should be dealt with. I know this because I've been there. I've been the kid that was bullied for reasons beyond my control and when I was 12 I tried to kill myself. My bullies didn't make me take all those pills. My depression did. When that was dealt with, the bullies at school were still asshats, but I didn't feel like I needed to die to escape.
You simply cannot put the burden of responsibility of one person's suicide on another person. Being a douche doesn't make a person responsible for anyone else's actions.

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Although life circumstances
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