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Locking Up Formula Going Too Far?


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  #61  
August 6th, 2012, 09:16 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hannah79 View Post
This makes no sense to me at all. Why on Earth are you expected to bring in formula for your own child? Do they require all other people to supply their own food for their hospital stay as well? I know each time I have been in the hospital, the hospital supplied all of my meals. Why would it be any different with formula for babies? They only provide nipples to the premie babies? Would you ever think it was acceptable to have to bring your own fork or plate to the hospital?
Why wouldn't you be expected to feed your own child? That is what doesn't make sense to me. Hospital food is tacked onto your hospital bill. If you want to make it fair then all BFing moms should get free BFing supplies (pumps, ointments, pads, etc).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audrey's Aunt Amanda View Post
This would be great had they not said that mother would "get a talking to" with every bottle...
Which is exactly what I said I *didn't* like. I said I didn't believe that the woman should get a talking to, I said she should know her opitions and be informed, which is what you're suppose to do with every new mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenoj View Post
I think it's fine to not give out free formula to mothers unless there is a reason they cannot breastfeed. In that case it should be given to them for free, for their stay. It should be available on site though like in the gift shop or something where patrons can easily buy it.

As for the hospital giving free food to the other patients, unless you can't breastfeed you do have free food. If you don't chose to give your child the food that's on you. If I don't choose to eat the often not so good hospital food they aren't going to just bring me whatever I do want. I have to get someone to buy it and bring it to me.
Exactly. And if you don't like hospital food, in many hospitals, you can bring your own or order some from somewhere else. Especially in maternity wards. I ordered pizza with ds1 and they delivered it to my room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Or make them state a medical reason for requesting one.
Most hospitals already do that, and have for decades. It's a way to track where the formula goes for paperwork, taxes, stats, etc.
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  #62  
August 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Why wouldn't you be expected to feed your own child? That is what doesn't make sense to me. Hospital food is tacked onto your hospital bill. If you want to make it fair then all BFing moms should get free BFing supplies (pumps, ointments, pads, etc).
Because that baby while in the hospital is a PATIENT and the hospital should provide what you need while you are admitted there. When my oldest couldn't latch due to a tongue tie the hospitial provided me with a pump to use while a patient there and I did get sent home with samples of BFing things!

So by your theory, patients should provide their own stuff-so no ice chips during labor (moms should bring their own), they should bring their own post partum supplies, hospital gowns shouldn't be provided, etc. NOOOOOO! It's all wrapped into the cost of your stay. If hospitals had to keep track of each and every thing they provided to a patient they'd spend way too much time/effort/money keeping track.

It blows my mind that you are upset over some formula being given out (most of which is donated by private companies) but you support the idea of taxpayers paying moms to stay home.
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  #63  
August 6th, 2012, 01:02 PM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Kris~ View Post
Because that baby while in the hospital is a PATIENT and the hospital should provide what you need while you are admitted there. When my oldest couldn't latch due to a tongue tie the hospitial provided me with a pump to use while a patient there and I did get sent home with samples of BFing things!

As a lactation counselor who has been in many US hospitals, I can tell you that free BFing supplies are rare. Pumps are normally tacked onto the hospital bill, and you normally can't keep them, and/or you rent them and they are expensive (Lactaid, the most common pump rental that hospitals use is normally atleast $100 a month if not more). Just like with other hospital food, you pay for it while you're in the hospital. I don't see why formula should be any different. That's what I was trying to say.

So by your theory, patients should provide their own stuff-so no ice chips during labor (moms should bring their own), they should bring their own post partum supplies, hospital gowns shouldn't be provided, etc. NOOOOOO! It's all wrapped into the cost of your stay. If hospitals had to keep track of each and every thing they provided to a patient they'd spend way too much time/effort/money keeping track.

Exactly, you pay for what you use in a hospital. So why should you get free formula?

It blows my mind that you are upset over some formula being given out (most of which is donated by private companies) but you support the idea of taxpayers paying moms to stay home.
I'm not upset at all, I'm just explaining how this idea of no more free formula is not a big horrible deal to make mother's feel guilty for using formula. Many hospitals around the world have not been giving out free formula for many many many years.

Also, formula companies don't donate the formula to "help" people or anything. They do it to make money, to get more mother's to use their formula brands over others, etc. Hospitals will still have formula there, just not to give it out to every person who has a baby.

"Conclusions. Commercial hospital discharge packs are one of several factors that influence breastfeeding duration and exclusivity. The distribution of these packs to new mothers at hospitals is part of a longstanding marketing campaign by infant formula manufacturers and implies hospital and staff endorsement of infant formula. Commercial hospital discharge pack distribution should be reconsidered in light of its negative impact on exclusive breastfeeding."
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi...PH.2006.103218

"
Conclusion: Although breast-feeding initiation and long-term duration were not affected, exposure to formula promotion materials increased significantly breast-feeding cessation in the first 2 weeks. Additionally, among women with uncertain goals or breast-feeding goals of 12 weeks or less, exclusive, full, and overall breast-feeding duration were shortened. Educational materials about infant feeding should support unequivocally breast-feeding as optimal nutrition for infants; formula promotion products should be eliminated from prenatal settings.
In the early 1990s, infant formula manufacturers initiated the distribution of attractively packaged patient education materials that include formula advertising, samples, and business reply cards for free formula through obstetric offices. Currently, such materials are used widely in the United States to educate expectant women about infant feeding.1,2 The use of such materials violates the World Health Organization's (WHO's) international code for marketing of breast-milk substitutes, which prohibits the distribution of free samples, the promotion of formula in health care facilities, and the use of pictures idealizing artificial feeding."
http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal...Effect.24.aspx

"One of the most common forms of advertising by manufacturers of infant formula is giving a free sample and information bag to mothers of newborn babies in hospital. While the companies argue this is aimed only at getting women who want to bottle feed to use their brand, others are concerned that the impact is to make bottle feeding more likely. Using just a few bottles can interfere with the establishment of breastfeeding. The review of trials found that women who were not given free formula sample packs were more likely to breastfeed exclusively for longer."
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...nticated=false
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Last edited by HappyHippy; August 6th, 2012 at 01:31 PM.
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  #64  
August 6th, 2012, 02:06 PM
K.A.T's Avatar Enjoying her Sticky Bun
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Why can't they be offered and left up to the mom to take or deny. I don't get the logic that just because it could influence a mom or two the rest should be denied as well. It's insane to sit back and believe that all need to be treated like it's a one size fits all mold. Let's face the truth. Yes, BF is the best thing to do, but it doesn't always get done and that's the moms choice. Why must all moms be "forced" to do something they might not simply want to do? I just don't like this whole idea of taking away the mothers choice. Oh but wait it's for the betterment of the children, so it's OK to take away a mothers choice. DOH! Real awesome logic there.
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  #65  
August 6th, 2012, 02:08 PM
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Again, they aren't banning formula from hospitals, they just aren't giving it away for free to all. That is not taking away anyone's choice. No one is being forced to BF. If you aren't going to BF then they will still have formula there, normally in pre-made bottles.
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Last edited by HappyHippy; August 6th, 2012 at 02:10 PM.
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  #66  
August 6th, 2012, 02:43 PM
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Most hospitals already don't give it away for free to all, so if that's the only reason, then what is the real point of locking it up and making a mom ask for it? Mine didn't give any away for free, they asked if I was going to bf or bottle, I picked both and I got some ready made bottle in his bassinet if I wanted them. There was no goodie bag at all. Matter of fact, I didn't get a goodie bag 8 years ago with my son either at a completely different hospital. The last time I got a goodie bag with supplies in them was 16 years ago, again at a completely different hospital.

If this whole notion of locking up formula was done differently, I would be able to understand it more. But the fact of the matter is, the way it's being done here, in my state, is not the way to go about it. There is no real offer of education for both moms and medical staff (some medial staff need to be educated on bf'n and how to help a mom get a routine going). It's simply a lock it up, make moms request it, be sure there is a medical reason for it, if not then give mom a "talking to." Yes, I know you're against the talking to, but let's look at things for what they are, it's still happening. And if this mayor truly has his way, this is just a step in the direction of trying to make this idea an ordnance. He's big on being a nanny state. You should see some of the other things he's proposing or putting into effect in NYC that has not made the media. It's sickening, truly sickening. He's truly disconnected from the residents of NYC, he only seeing things as a big business and it only for the protection of the ultra rich. All the other things he's done under the guise of helping out the lower income families has only been done to make himself look good. I'll bet money that by the next presidential election you will see his name in the running. He's setting himself up politically and that's all that matters to him.
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  #68  
August 6th, 2012, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.A.T View Post
Most hospitals already don't give it away for free to all, so if that's the only reason, then what is the real point of locking it up and making a mom ask for it? Mine didn't give any away for free, they asked if I was going to bf or bottle, I picked both and I got some ready made bottle in his bassinet if I wanted them. There was no goodie bag at all. Matter of fact, I didn't get a goodie bag 8 years ago with my son either at a completely different hospital. The last time I got a goodie bag with supplies in them was 16 years ago, again at a completely different hospital.

If this whole notion of locking up formula was done differently, I would be able to understand it more. But the fact of the matter is, the way it's being done here, in my state, is not the way to go about it. There is no real offer of education for both moms and medical staff (some medial staff need to be educated on bf'n and how to help a mom get a routine going). It's simply a lock it up, make moms request it, be sure there is a medical reason for it, if not then give mom a "talking to." Yes, I know you're against the talking to, but let's look at things for what they are, it's still happening. And if this mayor truly has his way, this is just a step in the direction of trying to make this idea an ordnance. He's big on being a nanny state. You should see some of the other things he's proposing or putting into effect in NYC that has not made the media. It's sickening, truly sickening. He's truly disconnected from the residents of NYC, he only seeing things as a big business and it only for the protection of the ultra rich. All the other things he's done under the guise of helping out the lower income families has only been done to make himself look good. I'll bet money that by the next presidential election you will see his name in the running. He's setting himself up politically and that's all that matters to him.
I was just at a US hospital last week (visiting my home state) and I asked about their formula policy. They lock up their formula as they do with everything else on the L&D ward. They said it was a preventative (sp) measure to keep people out of the closests on the floor, as the closests are in the hallways (this is a smaller hospital with no extra storage elsewhere, so closests where they keep formula, medicine, extra gowns, etc are all in the hall way and all are locked).

I don't know what their true motive is with locking up the formula, unless it was an over exageration, but I do know that it's nothing new.

I do agree that this Mayor/state seems to be going about it the wrong way. All he seems to be doing is fueling a war (mommy wars, bf vs ff, etc). The best way to go about it is get rid of the bags and instead offer individual support to each new mother on the benefits of both and support them from there. FF and BF is not black and white, nor is it one size fits all. It has many dimensions.
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  #69  
August 6th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Locking it up for preventive measures makes sense. Locking it up for the sole purpose of promoting bf'n does not.
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  #70  
August 8th, 2012, 07:47 PM
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I am also for more education. If hospitals want to do this as their own practice, so be it, but I don't like the government stepping in to mandate it.
My anecdotal evidence is this: with Grant, the hospital asked me if I was breastfeeding. I said yes and did the entire stay. When I was leaving, they gave me a "breastfeeding mothers gift bag" and when I got home, it has newborn formula in it and coupons and said in the brochure to use it until my milk came in if needed. REALLY??? I gave it to a friend who used formula because she couldn't breastfeed. I also got one with Kaley and used it in a moment of weakness at 3 AM when she was a week old and wouldn't latch and was crying. I got rid of it this time before that could happen!
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  #71  
August 8th, 2012, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
So, when a ff fed baby has to go to the hospital, mom and dad need to bring formula from home?

This is hilarious! In the other debate you think its fine and dandy for the taxpayer to foot the bill for mom to stay home for a year( or "up to three years") but a few bottles of formula from the hospital is irresponsible on mom and dad's part.
No, they don't NEED to. But the other person says the hospital's practically OBLIGATED to provide formula and they're realistically NOT. If the parent is unhappy with what IS being provided, they can provide for themselves. *edit* the way she wrote it, it sounded as if she thought the hospital just gives it to her, just like they did free formula. THAT's how I got "free" and such for the OTHER pp who questioned that. Maybe I misread, but I was not the only one.

In the OTHER debate, the idea that I got until the very end, was that the mothers staying home for a year were already working mothers and this would be a BENEFIT . There was a lot of confusion on the whole thing that I never formed a full opinion. I never addressed the moms who never worked, either, because I still have YET to see an actual bill proposed showing how it would work.

Didn't say the parents are IRRESPONSIBLE, either...
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  #72  
August 9th, 2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Most hospitals already do that, and have for decades. It's a way to track where the formula goes for paperwork, taxes, stats, etc.
Not at the hospitals where I had my children. With my oldest I planned on using formula and they never asked me my reasons why I planned on formula instead of bf. I changed my mind and gave bf a try though.

With my other three, they asked what my preference was when I was being admitted.

I truly doubt hospitals make mom site a medical reason for wanting to use formula.

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Originally Posted by GSLynn View Post

Didn't say the parents are IRRESPONSIBLE, either...
No, you didn't use that particular word but you implied it.
Quote:
Actually, it is the parent's responsibility to feed their own kid. The hospital
didn't get you pregnant
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  #73  
August 9th, 2012, 03:31 PM
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Yes many hospitals don't ask, don't care. I wasn't asked when I had ds1. Most hospitals I've had clients in though have asked when they were going to use formula so they could track their inventory.
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