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Locking Up Formula Going Too Far?


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  #2  
July 30th, 2012, 03:57 PM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I read about this earlier and all I have to say is that Bloomberg makes me ill. He's such a control freak.
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  #4  
July 30th, 2012, 04:50 PM
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There are many hospitals in the USA and other countries that do not have formula at their hospitals (the free cans, not the premade baby bottles for babies who need it) or they do keep it hidden and only give it out to those who need it. So I don't really see why this is a shocker since it already happens in many hospitals around the world. It's part of the Baby Friendly Initiative.
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  #5  
July 30th, 2012, 05:34 PM
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First of all "hiding" it or "storing" it isn't going to make a person that wants to FF any less aware that it's available. Second, I think this is super pushy and seriously makes women look like they are too stupid to choose for themselves.

I honestly don't mind offering education on breastfeeding or a little encouragement, but especially mothers that have no intention of breastfeeding shouldn't be bullied into it.

Men would never be done this way. I firmly believe that.
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  #6  
July 30th, 2012, 06:05 PM
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Before I reply on the topic, Jillian, beautiful pic in your siggy, and congrats(I don't think I ever did congratulate you).


That dude is the epitome of asshat. As long as his name is on the lips of the media, he's satisfied, so it seems, regardless of whether or not the publicity is negative or positive. I don't even live there and I dislike the guy greatly, not to mention I think he's about as intelligent as a bee's nut.

No hospital here actually gives out "free" formula randomly. Obviously the babies staying there have formula if that is what they are on(and no hospital that I have been to here, takes on the bully approach, they take on the educate the mom but let her make the decision approach-even the crappy hospitals that don't have the best care), but there isn't some formula fairy going around handing it out to people willy nilly just because. So it's hard for me to picture any hospital as having some kind of surplus of free formula, therefore needing to keep it under lock and key so no one breaks in during the night to steal it.
I honestly can't picture the need to "hide" it, it boggles my mind at the moment.

Keeping formula away from the babies staying in your care that need it hardly seems baby friendly to me, though. So I don't agree that it's part of some sort of initiative. I think the asshat is simply jumping on some stupid bandwagon because it'll keep his name on the lips of the public. Bf vs Ff is simply one of those topics that never gets old. As in, it can always be discussed, will always be discussed and although can be interesting, it's more often emotionally driven than not. Such topics are often popular amongst those who need to stay in the limelight.
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  #7  
July 30th, 2012, 07:03 PM
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Many hospitals give out free formula to mothers, regardless of their feeding choices. The hospital I had ds1 in gave me 4 cans of formula when I left, 2 Enfamil and 2 Similac. They also gave me about $50 worth in coupons for formula. This is actually a common practice in many hospitals around the world. Because of hospitals doing this there have been movements to change it. To "ban the bags", which are called breastfeeding bags but are filled with formula samples, formula coupons, and maybe 1 disposable breast pad. There are also movements in the US to replace the formula sample bags with BFing friendly bags.

The Baby Friendly Initiative does not try to *not* have formula at the hospitals, they just want hospitals to not endorse certain brands of formula and give out cans of it for free to every mom who has a baby. They want support for BFing and also want formula to still be available for those who need/want it, but not to give it out to everyone.

There has been research that says that BFing is undermined when hospitals give out free samples of formula for everyone, and that it drops BFing rates. Which is why many hospitals around the world do not partake in the giving out of free formula, they have higher rates of BFing from the beginning and at 6 months.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8380RR20120409

"The BFHI assists hospitals in giving mothers the information, confidence, and skills needed to successfully initiate and continue breastfeeding their babies or feeding formula safely, and gives special recognition to hospitals that have done so." http://www.babyfriendlyusa.org/eng/index.html

http://banthebags.org/bb-pdf/onepage.pdf

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...ing/50552916/1

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...als/51460584/1
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Last edited by HappyHippy; July 30th, 2012 at 07:13 PM.
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  #8  
July 30th, 2012, 07:03 PM
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I agree with Jillian and Frackle, whose name escapes me at the moment. I'm eating, so I'm really thinking more about my hotpocket right now than this debate. lol
But that doesn't affect my opinion. This feels very bully-ish to me and I think if given the chance Bloomberg would totally be a controlling dictator. Why is he trying so hard to micromanage New Yorkers' diets?
New mothers need encouragement, not to be hassled. Make getting the formula a little less convenient. Give moms the speech on how it's better, and help them see that it's not as scary/difficult as they might be imagining it to be. But for God's sake, if they know the benefits of BFing and are still choosing FFing, give them the dang formula without making them feel like crap. And why make it a hassle on the nurses who have to go unlock it and document every single bit of it. Trust me, nurses have plenty of other things to keep under lock and key, and to write in their charts. Nursing is already demanding enough!
Push harder to educate and encourage, but be willing to recognize that once a mother's mind is made up, that's the end of it. Just give her the freaking formula.
I guess that sounds strange coming from me considering how annoyed I get to see how heavily formula is advertised in the maternity wards. I'm all for taking out the free samples, and the silly little gifts with the Similac logo that not-so-subtly nudge women in the direction of formula. But also, respect the mother's final decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
Many hospitals give out free formula to mothers, regardless of their feeding choices. The hospital I had ds1 in gave me 4 cans of formula when I left, 2 Enfamil and 2 Similac. They also gave me about $50 worth in coupons for formula. This is actually a common practice in many hospitals around the world. Because of hospitals doing this there have been movements to change it. To "ban the bags", which are called breastfeeding bags but are filled with formula samples, formula coupons, and maybe 1 disposable breast pad. There are also movements in the US to replace the formula sample bags with BFing friendly bags.

The Baby Friendly Initiative does not try to *not* have formula at the hospitals, they just want hospitals to not endorse certain brands of formula and give out cans of it for free to every mom who has a baby. They want support for BFing and also want formula to still be available for those who need/want it, but not to give it out to everyone.

There has been research that says that BFing is undermined when hospitals give out free samples of formula for everyone, and that it drops BFing rates. Which is why many hospitals around the world do not partake in the giving out of free formula, they have higher rates of BFing from the beginning and at 6 months.


The way you've described that sounds really really great and I would support it completely. I think that's the way it should be.

What I'm against is the government coming up with a LAW requiring formula to be kept under lock and key and to have to justify each and every bottle with a medical excuse, and every single bottle given to a mother is accompanied by a lecture. Not cool.
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  #9  
July 30th, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Name's Michelle

I am all for more education, better education and keeping moms more informed. But I don't agree that under lock and key is even remotely in line with that kind of movement.
Yes I know tons of hospitals give out those bags. All the hospitals here do too, but they don't have formula in them, at all, if you're not using formula. The ones that DO have formula its just a very small sample. They take it out of most bags though, and put in more bf friendly things. In fact they stopped handing out the logo bags even. Which kinda surprised me to be honest, I wasn't expecting that. When ds was born(he's nearly 9 now) I got a black bag, I thought it was the similac bag I had seen others get. But it's not, it's a bag that looks a lot like it, but there is no branding on it anywhere. In fact ds still has the bag, his doll clothes are in it. I nursed him the first few weeks while pumping and then pumped exclusively after. So my bag had ONLY bf related stuff in it. Now the junk bag the hospital gave me with all kinds of other coupons and whatnots had formula related coupons in it, but not the bag they gave me. In fact my bag had a manual pump, pack of nursing pads, always samples and coupons(why on earth I don't know, they weren't really up for the challenge of after birth, but that's a whole different issue), lanisoh, lanisoh bags, a bib with the hospital logo, a car shade with the hospital logo, pair of booties and a cap knitted by the lil old lady group that does that there, ummm, some other random samples and coupons I can't remember, oh and tucks, lol. Either way, absolutely nothing related to formula was in there. I was really surprised because although that hospital wasn't terrible it certainly wasn't the best either. I know they're not the same as every other place and there are plenty that don't do the same things they do. I do get that. What I don't get is the whole lock and key thing and making it come across as more of a bullying tactic. That, I don't like, at all.

Yes mothers need to be informed and make educated decisions, regardless of what their end result may be. But bullying people or making it even slightly difficult, is NOT the way to go about that. Especially in this day and age when the mothers are getting younger and younger(I can say that having been a teen mom myself ) and are even less likely to be informed. No I'm not excusing ignorance, I am simply saying, it's there, and we need to deal with THAT first and foremost. There are much better ways to deal with it though.

Acting as of formula is a wicked evil sin fill substance that needs to be kept under surveillance or something is just stupid, lol. I think a better approach to this issue would be to find more ways to educate women-and men too for that matter. Find ways to encourage people to seek out what they don't know. More programs to help moms early on who may be frustrated as someone trying to nail jello to a tree. Those early weeks can be a *****, and moms need all the support they can get. So why not put more focus on that kind of thing or at least that aspect of a campaign. The educational, informative and supportive aspects. Not so much emphasis on the "good god man what are you feeeeeeding that kid" aspect. No mom needs that, lol.
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  #10  
July 31st, 2012, 05:07 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
There are many hospitals in the USA and other countries that do not have formula at their hospitals (the free cans, not the premade baby bottles for babies who need it) or they do keep it hidden and only give it out to those who need it. So I don't really see why this is a shocker since it already happens in many hospitals around the world. It's part of the Baby Friendly Initiative.
Its not a shocker because Bloomberg wants to control everything everybody eats, drinks, or donates in NYC. Its his ego and power trip thats annoying and yet another politician using "its for the children" to try to gain control over a parents choices.

Jillian, its nice to see you here again. Super cute pic and congratulations!!!
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  #11  
July 31st, 2012, 06:52 AM
HappyHippy's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire_ga79 View Post
I agree with Jillian and Frackle, whose name escapes me at the moment. I'm eating, so I'm really thinking more about my hotpocket right now than this debate. lol
But that doesn't affect my opinion. This feels very bully-ish to me and I think if given the chance Bloomberg would totally be a controlling dictator. Why is he trying so hard to micromanage New Yorkers' diets?
New mothers need encouragement, not to be hassled. Make getting the formula a little less convenient. Give moms the speech on how it's better, and help them see that it's not as scary/difficult as they might be imagining it to be. But for God's sake, if they know the benefits of BFing and are still choosing FFing, give them the dang formula without making them feel like crap. And why make it a hassle on the nurses who have to go unlock it and document every single bit of it. Trust me, nurses have plenty of other things to keep under lock and key, and to write in their charts. Nursing is already demanding enough!
Push harder to educate and encourage, but be willing to recognize that once a mother's mind is made up, that's the end of it. Just give her the freaking formula.
I guess that sounds strange coming from me considering how annoyed I get to see how heavily formula is advertised in the maternity wards. I'm all for taking out the free samples, and the silly little gifts with the Similac logo that not-so-subtly nudge women in the direction of formula. But also, respect the mother's final decision.





The way you've described that sounds really really great and I would support it completely. I think that's the way it should be.

What I'm against is the government coming up with a LAW requiring formula to be kept under lock and key and to have to justify each and every bottle with a medical excuse, and every single bottle given to a mother is accompanied by a lecture. Not cool.
Yes I'm all for education on both sides, formula and breastfeeding, and the moms need to be supported with the choice she makes. I'm just not for endorsing certain formula companies and then giving out bags to everyone with formula in them. That sends the wrong message I think (atleast to BFing moms).

ETA: If I endorsed a formula company and gave out free cans of Enfamil in my office, I'd be violating ethics and I'd probably get a talk with the health department as well as a fine. I can and do give out information on different formulas available, I work with women who use formula and are trying to find the right one for specific circumstances (GERD, etc), but I do not ever give out free cans. Hosptials should be working the same way. They can give out the information, and I do agree with having those premade bottles in the hospital as some babies do need it and some mothers do not want to nurse, but I don't agree with giving out the bags of free formula. I've never been with a client in a hosptial back home that did not give out the free formula bags, and most of my clients were nursing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Its not a shocker because Bloomberg wants to control everything everybody eats, drinks, or donates in NYC. Its his ego and power trip thats annoying and yet another politician using "its for the children" to try to gain control over a parents choices.

Jillian, its nice to see you here again. Super cute pic and congratulations!!!
Yes I've done some reading on him and he's a bit much too me. While I can agree with helping people out with good choices, I don't agree with taking away choices. I think there needs to be better education, and it could start in the schools (food choice wise). Is he the same guy who is trying to take away large pops in restuarants?
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Last edited by HappyHippy; July 31st, 2012 at 06:56 AM.
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  #12  
July 31st, 2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post

Yes I've done some reading on him and he's a bit much too me. While I can agree with helping people out with good choices, I don't agree with taking away choices. I think there needs to be better education, and it could start in the schools (food choice wise). Is he the same guy who is trying to take away large pops in restuarants?
Yes, that's him.
He's also put bans on donating food to homeless shelters because there may be too much salt in it.

Over the weekend he said he thought the police should go on strike until stricter gun laws are passed. He backpeddled a bit on it later though.
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  #14  
July 31st, 2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Yes, that's him.
He's also put bans on donating food to homeless shelters because there may be too much salt in it.

Over the weekend he said he thought the police should go on strike until stricter gun laws are passed. He backpeddled a bit on it later though.
Yikes, he sounds scary.
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  #15  
July 31st, 2012, 10:09 AM
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For the record, hospitals don't give out the formula - they pass on the formula that is provide as a gift to mothers by the formula companies. Those companies have a right to offer gifts. The mothers can chose to take them or not.

If anyone is stupid enough to go "oh they gave me formula, that must mean I have to formula feed"......

Both times I gave birth, I was offered breast feeding education & formula it was completely my choice. And so it should be!
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  #16  
July 31st, 2012, 10:10 AM
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I had a friend freak out because she thinks it's about to become a LAW that formula is made by Rx only. I'm thinking that she's a little bit overreacting. It's an election year. Of course, people are going to spew word-**** from their mouths and try to stir the pot. It's one thing to not to offer formula to every single person that has a baby, and perhaps give it to those who ask only, but it's quite another to make a law that people must have a prescription if they don't wish to breastfeed. So stupid and I can't see her "law" passing. She posted something, but I explained to her that nothing indicated what she was saying about this law was true.

I can't find anything about this but ONE article, which declares it unconstitutional. Anyone have any other information about this that shows that the FDA and government is trying to make this into law?
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  #17  
July 31st, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by GSLynn View Post
I had a friend freak out because she thinks it's about to become a LAW that formula is made by Rx only. I'm thinking that she's a little bit overreacting. It's an election year. Of course, people are going to spew word-**** from their mouths and try to stir the pot. It's one thing to not to offer formula to every single person that has a baby, and perhaps give it to those who ask only, but it's quite another to make a law that people must have a prescription if they don't wish to breastfeed. So stupid and I can't see her "law" passing. She posted something, but I explained to her that nothing indicated what she was saying about this law was true.

I can't find anything about this but ONE article, which declares it unconstitutional. Anyone have any other information about this that shows that the FDA and government is trying to make this into law?
Bloomberg isn't just spewing because its an election year, he spews all the time.

As far as a bill stating formula should be by perscription only in the US, I haven't heard about that yet.
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  #18  
July 31st, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by My2miracles View Post
For the record, hospitals don't give out the formula - they pass on the formula that is provide as a gift to mothers by the formula companies. Those companies have a right to offer gifts. The mothers can chose to take them or not.

If anyone is stupid enough to go "oh they gave me formula, that must mean I have to formula feed"......

Both times I gave birth, I was offered breast feeding education & formula it was completely my choice. And so it should be!
No, many hospitals give out the formula. They put it in diaper bags and give it to you as you leave the hospital. They market them as "breastfeeding sample bags" except they are filled with full size formula cans. Of course all hospitals are different and yours sounds better than the ones I've had clients in. Also at the hospital based childbirth classes, on the last day of class they gave you a black diaper bag with 4 Similac formula cans in them (regular sized). This is a problem and this is why hospitals are cracking down on it.

I do not believe the formula companies have a right to market their products inside a hospital. If they want to give out free formula then people can sign up at their websites to get some samples. But I do not believe they have any right inside the hospital. Like I said in a previous post, if I were to do that I would get into *serious* trouble by the health board. They can also go to WIC if they are in need of formula and cannot afford it. There are many places where you can get free formula, even at Motherhood Maternity (once you sign up there you'll recieve Enfamil in the mail, atleast in my home state you do).
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  #19  
July 31st, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Tammyjh View Post
Bloomberg isn't just spewing because its an election year, he spews all the time.

As far as a bill stating formula should be by perscription only in the US, I haven't heard about that yet.
OK she posted an ABC news link and nothing talks about mandating it. I think she is just assuming because hospitals may be 'complying' with his ideas, that it's now 'law' which I explained are 2 different things. I know I can't find anything, even purposefully looking, that talks about requirements of a prescription to use formula. How long does this jerk get to stay in office anyway? WHO in their right minds elected this fool?

As far as samples in the hospital: We had to sign up with the formula companies at the Dr. Office if you wanted to receive a bag w/ formula in it at the hospital. The Dr. Office has a sign that clearly states they do not endorse any particular company. I signed up for all the companies to sample each formula and then decided which one I felt was best for my kid. No one tried to "force" formula feeding on my kids at the hospital. In fact, all I HEARD about was breastfeeding.
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  #20  
July 31st, 2012, 11:04 AM
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They do you give you some formula for sure. I was sent home with 4 ready made bottles and that's it. I got way more when I had my son.

I registered on formula sites when I was pregnant so my friend could get the coupons and I put that I would be breastfeeding ON PURPOSE to see what I'd get. I literally got 3 times as many checks and samples as my friend that registered as a FF mommy. They gotta make that money. I get that. But I had my mind made up and I knew I'd never use formula if I could help it.

I understand that the availability makes it easier to FF. I totally get that. I just don't like being made to feel like the choice isn't mine or yours. I don't like bullying when it comes to parenting issues. I'm ALL for the education and support because I believe that's what makes more mothers want to breastfeed.
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