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Pediatrictions decide boys are better off circ'd than not


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  #21  
August 29th, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cereal Killer View Post
If you are going to remove your son's foreskin to mitigate his risk of penile cancer, you may want to tell you doctor he needn't stop there. Considering that a male's chance of developing penile cancer pales in comparison to his risk of developing breast cancer, you may as well ask him to remove those too. You should also nip your daughter's even higher risk of breast cancer in the bud (pun intended) and have her's removed too. Just schedule it with her hysterectomy. That is, if cancer is what we are in the game of preventing at birth. For that matter, why not remove every infant's tonsils and appendix. It's better if they don't remember the pain of recovery. If you are scared of UTIs, you should have your daughter's labia removed, as her chances of UTI are significantly greater than your son's.

The point being, prophylactic amputation of functioning body parts is ridiculous. If your doctor suggested removing your newborn's appendix to prevent future appendicitis, you would most likely think he/she had lost his/her mind but we don't blink an eye when parents remove a healthy, functioning part of a boy's penis under the guise of preventative medicine.
Hmm.. I may have to save this exact post for my husband in case we have a boy one day. I agree 100%.
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  #22  
August 29th, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MindyRambo View Post
Alright, you asked for it then. Female circ.



All of this, except there are actually closer to 20,000 nerve endings in the foreskin

See now if people presented valid information like that instead ridiculous agruments comparing foreskin to breasts, we could actually have a valid debate. Thanks!
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  #23  
August 29th, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post
You do realise though if your son kept his foreskin it wouldn't be tiny as a grown adult? That is what I said and ment. Foreskin might be small (I wouldn't say tiny, I have intact boys) as a newborn, but it grows with the baby.

We're not talking about cutting off a 15 year olds breast. The argument is removing the breast/breast tissue of a BABY, just like with foresking. A better argument would be cutting of tiny baby nipples so that they don't get nipple cancer which is about as rare as penile cancer. Both are in prevention of something RARE.

Also in your argument about the skin over a girls nipple at birth to prevent breast cancer it would only work if that nipple skin served a purpose. Because foreskin does indeed serve a purpose and it's benefits outweight the extremely small risks.

No really????? I didn't realize it grew... Will my son's penis grow too???? (yeah that's sarcasm).

I don't think you can compare foreskin to a nipple either. Since there is no exact equivalent, I was making something up that would be closer to the same than an entire breast. That's why I was using a foreskin type equivalent --- that is NOT the same as a nipple.

Circumcision is done for other reasons than reducing penile cancer. It's just one of the things presented in the article.
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  #24  
August 29th, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My2miracles View Post
No really????? I didn't realize it grew... Will my son's penis grow too???? (yeah that's sarcasm).

I don't think you can compare foreskin to a nipple either. Since there is no exact equivalent, I was making something up that would be closer to the same than an entire breast. That's why I was using a foreskin type equivalent --- that is NOT the same as a nipple.

Circumcision is done for other reasons than reducing penile cancer. It's just one of the things presented in the article.
Yes, but the other things they talk about are either irrelevant in this country, are a total myth, or are not a legitimate risk. As has already been pointed out, if you were worried about your child having UTI's, you would also remove your daughters labia. If you were worried about infections, you would also remove your daughters labia. Instead, we teach our daughters to clean themselves properly.

(You is general)
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  #25  
August 29th, 2012, 01:05 PM
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^ It's done to "prevent" things that are already preventable by proper hygeine, safe sex practices and good nutrition. The AAPs stance is that circumcision's benefits help reduce penile cancer (rare, and male breast cancer is not as rare as penile cancer), UTIs (which proper hygeine and good nutrition can take care of, and in other studies that the AAP did not use shows that there wasn't an increased rate if circ vs intact in UTI rates or there wasn't a signifcant amount of an increase), STDs (safe sex practices significantlly reduce the chances of contracting/passing on a STD), HIV/AIDs (the studies used in the AAP stance were done in Africa and debunked several years ago by many researches in the US, Canada and Europe) and HPV (again condoms anyone?).

Many Doctors have come out and said the studies used in the AAP stance is completely flawed and most of them were thrown out a long time ago. They didn't use the studies that showed no decrease or little decrease in everything the AAP thinks benefits from circumcision.

Adolescent Sexual Health in Europe and the US
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  #26  
August 30th, 2012, 10:14 AM
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Smh it's not the Pediatricians place to decide that,it's the parents only.
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  #27  
August 30th, 2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babybear4 View Post
Yes, but the other things they talk about are either irrelevant in this country, are a total myth, or are not a legitimate risk. As has already been pointed out, if you were worried about your child having UTI's, you would also remove your daughters labia. If you were worried about infections, you would also remove your daughters labia. Instead, we teach our daughters to clean themselves properly.

(You is general)

I'm not debating that. I'm against sensationalizing a debate by comparing a piece of foreskin to a breast.
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  #28  
August 30th, 2012, 11:26 AM
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I think circ is a personal decision, not a parenting decision, jmo. It should be up to the owner of the penis, and no one else.
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  #29  
August 30th, 2012, 04:12 PM
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Like I've always said, anyone telling you you should or have to circ your son is just as dumb as the cities that want to ban it. Though I'd always like to see how they could control that besides the weenie inspector. Either way, how many men grow up and actually question their parents as to why they were or weren't circed?

Anyone else think this is a bunch of peds that got together and decided to release an article full of suggestions because they're loosing out on money? Many insurance companies aren't paying for this procedure anymore, and I know lots of people who, unless it's paid for in part or full, will pass on something. I'm sure there's more people out there like that besides the ones I know.
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  #30  
August 30th, 2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My2miracles View Post
I'm not debating that. I'm against sensationalizing a debate by comparing a piece of foreskin to a breast.
I wasn't trying to sensationalize anything. I was just comparing them to show that cutting off a normal, healthy body part to decrease cancer risk doesn't make any sense. Foreskins have functions just like breasts do and the risk of breast cancer is way higher than penile cancer.
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  #31  
September 2nd, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .:Kati:. View Post
Smh it's not the Pediatricians place to decide that,it's the parents only.
Why not let the one with the penis decide?
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  #32  
September 2nd, 2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My2miracles View Post
See now if people presented valid information like that instead ridiculous agruments comparing foreskin to breasts, we could actually have a valid debate. Thanks!
No one is comparing breasts to foreskin. The analogy is premised on the reasons given to support and endorse routine circumcision. One of the justifications for circing is that it mitigates the risk of penile cancer. For starters, penile cancer is one of the rarest forms of cancer. The likelihood of a male developing breast cancer exceeds his risk of developing penile cancer. Women are 1000X more likely to develop breast cancer than men. So, based on the logic that it is reasonable to remove the foreskin to mitigate a statistical rarity, why not apply that reasoning across the board with regards to mitigating the more statistically significant risks to their future health?

The thing is, if a parent were to seek to remove the breast buds of their male or female infant to prevent future breast cancer, it would never be allowed. If I were to request that my infant's tonsils or appendix be removed to avoid the possibility of tonsillitis or appendicitis in the future, the doctor would probably report me to protective services. For whatever reason, though, in the US no one bats an eyelash when medically unnecessary surgery is performed on infant boys under the guise of preventative medicine.

/scienced
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  #33  
September 8th, 2012, 08:07 AM
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These discussions always crack me up. Let's be honest folks. It is a cultural thing - end of story. The vast majority of people who circ do so for cultural reasons and then often try to come up with medical reasons when they are questioned - for some reason people don't often want to admit they chose to circ so their boy would look like other boys or to look like daddy. The culture is changing and so with each passing generation fewer and fewer boys will be circ'd - you can see this in other areas of the world. Canada for example has a had a big decrease in % of boys circ'd as has the US - time will tell - 30 years from now we will see if there is some big increase in cancer, infections etc.
When I took my infant in to see a pediatric urologist because of an undescended testicle the frist thing he said to me was - thank goodness you didn't circumcise him! That made me curious so I asked him why he was against circ. He acted horrified and assured me that he wasn't. Then he gave me a wink and said - everybody loves job security.
If I were a new parent seriously considering a circ for my son I would call respected pediatric urologists and non-ped urologists in my area and ask for their opinion and why.
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  #34  
September 8th, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AMDG View Post
These discussions always crack me up. Let's be honest folks. It is a cultural thing - end of story. The vast majority of people who circ do so for cultural reasons and then often try to come up with medical reasons when they are questioned - for some reason people don't often want to admit they chose to circ so their boy would look like other boys or to look like daddy. The culture is changing and so with each passing generation fewer and fewer boys will be circ'd - you can see this in other areas of the world. Canada for example has a had a big decrease in % of boys circ'd as has the US - time will tell - 30 years from now we will see if there is some big increase in cancer, infections etc.
When I took my infant in to see a pediatric urologist because of an undescended testicle the frist thing he said to me was - thank goodness you didn't circumcise him! That made me curious so I asked him why he was against circ. He acted horrified and assured me that he wasn't. Then he gave me a wink and said - everybody loves job security.
If I were a new parent seriously considering a circ for my son I would call respected pediatric urologists and non-ped urologists in my area and ask for their opinion and why.
The vast majority of people who circ in the USA don't have a real reason other than "it's what people do in this country". Many of my clients when I worked in the states would say they didnt' really look up the info just that their Pediatrician performed them and to them that meant that their Pediatrician recommended them (which is not true always).

The problem with this new stance is that people were *not* circing because the AAP put out a stance that said there were no benefits to circing, and so after time the circ population went down. Now with the new stance that it does have benefits I bet in a few years circing will increase again.

I would say that majority of new parents don't call Pediatric Urologists and ask them their opinion on circumcision, and even if they did, an opinion is just that. You're going to find some for and against the procedure in every feild. I have a family member who is a Doctor who is *for* circumcision because intact penises look "gross".
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  #35  
September 8th, 2012, 03:47 PM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHippy View Post

The problem with this new stance is that people were *not* circing because the AAP put out a stance that said there were no benefits to circing, and so after time the circ population went down. Now with the new stance that it does have benefits I bet in a few years circing will increase again.

".
I hear what you are saying but I disagree - I think that applies to things like how people put their babies down to sleep - on tummy or back. As experts opinions change so do parents actions. With circ/non circ though it is an action vs a non action - not two opposite actions. The assumption is that we leave our kids as they were created unless there is a problem. We don't leave our kids toes attacted becaues docs tell us to - no, it is rather obvious that a body should be unmutilated unless there is some good reason to do so. I didn't leave my sons intact because some doc or some expert told me to - I did because there was nothing wrong with him and there would have to be pretty convincing evidence that something was wrong with him for me to do something like circ him.
As far as the urologist comment went - I was thinking more along the lines that they have actual data and experience. They could say what % of their patients are from botched circs or how many adults they see w serious problems do to a lack of circ. That kind of info is a lot more meaningful to me than some of those vague recommendations "experts" come up with.
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  #36  
September 8th, 2012, 05:31 PM
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^ Actually there have been studies and surveys done on why the circ rate was going down and many parents said because the AAP said there were no benefits and/or their Pediatrician stated there were no benefits. It started to fall after the AAP came out with that stance, many European Doctors and even American Doctors against the AAP stance has said that it will go up again unless the AAP revise their statement to the original where they said there were no benefits.
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