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  #1  
April 30th, 2007, 09:41 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Do you think the government should pay for job training or college for those who are on welfare or other assistance programs?

I am leaning more towards no. My family could never have afforded to send me to college. My choice was either don't go or find a way to do it myself.

I did not qualify for any financial aide whatsoever. I worked full time the entire time that I was in college. It took me a bit longer to finish because I was also working but I did it. My graduation day was the proudest day of my life because I had done it all on my own. No one handed me anything and what I went through made me appreciate it that much more.

What bothers me is that my DH and I waited to have kids so that I could finish college.

Had he and I decided to just live together and have children the college would have only been able to consider my income in financial aide and I would have qualified for almost a full ride. However, because we got married and waited to have kids I had to pay for my entire education.

I believe in financial aide because college is ridiculously expensive but I don't think it is something that should just be handed out either.
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  #2  
April 30th, 2007, 09:59 AM
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Yes I think the government should pay for job training for those on government assistance.

But really, they kind of already do. Anyone can take out the SMALL amount of loans needed for tuition for an associates degree at the local college. Or if you are low income, pell grant money will probably pay for the entire thing. Now finding a way to pay living expenses while in school, that might be where the actual assistance comes in. Welfare, housing, food, etc.
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  #3  
April 30th, 2007, 10:03 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Yes I think the government should pay for job training for those on government assistance.

But really, they kind of already do. Anyone can take out the SMALL amount of loans needed for tuition for an associates degree at the local college. Or if you are low income, pell grant money will probably pay for the entire thing. Now finding a way to pay living expenses while in school, that might be where the actual assistance comes in. Welfare, housing, food, etc.[/b]

Loans are different than assistance though. Loans have to be paid back and I am all for that. You can take them out for 4 year degrees also. You may not always get all of the money to cover everything but you can usually get a majority of what is needed.

I think loans are an excellent way to encourage people to go to school. I think making them more readily available would be a great idea. That way people could still go to college but they would be responsible for paying for it once they were finished.
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  #4  
April 30th, 2007, 10:06 AM
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A lot of low income people could go to college and have their tuition pretty much covered by financial aid.

The problem is that they are not aware of this. A lot of people don't know how financial aid works.

Financial aid isn't perfect though. The people getting shafted by financial aid are the middle class kids, whose parents don't have enough money to pay their way, but at the same time they make "too much" for them to get financial aid.
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  #5  
April 30th, 2007, 11:08 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Quote:
A lot of low income people could go to college and have their tuition pretty much covered by financial aid.

The problem is that they are not aware of this. A lot of people don't know how financial aid works.

Financial aid isn't perfect though. The people getting shafted by financial aid are the middle class kids, whose parents don't have enough money to pay their way, but at the same time they make "too much" for them to get financial aid.[/b]

That was exactly my situation. My parents could not afford college for me but they didn't qualify for help. That is why I think everyone should be get loans rather than financial aide. It forces them to take on some responsibility for their education and the cost.
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  #6  
April 30th, 2007, 11:11 AM
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So now we should do away with the pell grants too, and have everyone take out loans instead?

Why not expand who is eligible for pell grants instead.

The problem with loans is that there is only so much you can borrow your freshman and sophomore year. And it usually is not enough to cover living expenses/dorm, tuition, etc.
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  #10  
April 30th, 2007, 11:45 AM
tevinsangel
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You know, I would like (to start with anyway) to see high schools offer job training programs. Years ago high school students could learn trades before graduation (mechanics, plumbing, construction, beauticians, secretarial skills and so on) rather than put every high school student on a "college bound" program.

Not every student is college bound. And that's not a reflection on intelligence or worth. It's just that college is not for everyone.

I read an article a few months ago about how many areas of the US are lacking in skilled trade workers. Our plumber, for an example, is past retirement age and would love to slow down, but he told me recently that he just can't find someone to take on in his business.

Skilled workers are part of the fabric of our society that we depend on. We depend on their being people who can fix our cars, our electrical problems, our plumbing, and the like.

There are too many kids (IMO) who graduate with high school with no where to go. They either cannot afford college or have no interest in the degree programs offered. Four years in high school on a "college bound" program was a waste for these kids when they could have been learning a trade that they would love to be doing and be ready to work right after graduation.

Since we already pay tax dollars for public education I'd like to see THAT happen.[/b]
ITA!! I also do not think that loans are the way to go for everyone. Some people will not be making a ton of money even after they complete college and get a degree. They will be saddled with another financial burden for many years to come. I was also one of the kids that couldn't afford to go to college but also could not get the financial aid. However, when my DH and I got married Pell paid for pretty much all of his associates degree. He does have school loans now for his bachelor's (he has about a year left) and when he is done, he will owe around 30k in school loans. He is not going to ever be making doctor's/lawyers salary and it will take us quite a while to pay this off. So doing away with grants and financial aid would probably leave most of society without a college degree JMO though.
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  #11  
April 30th, 2007, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
You know, I would like (to start with anyway) to see high schools offer job training programs. Years ago high school students could learn trades before graduation (mechanics, plumbing, construction, beauticians, secretarial skills and so on) rather than put every high school student on a "college bound" program.

Not every student is college bound. And that's not a reflection on intelligence or worth. It's just that college is not for everyone.

I read an article a few months ago about how many areas of the US are lacking in skilled trade workers. Our plumber, for an example, is past retirement age and would love to slow down, but he told me recently that he just can't find someone to take on in his business.

Skilled workers are part of the fabric of our society that we depend on. We depend on their being people who can fix our cars, our electrical problems, our plumbing, and the like.

There are too many kids (IMO) who graduate with high school with no where to go. They either cannot afford college or have no interest in the degree programs offered. Four years in high school on a "college bound" program was a waste for these kids when they could have been learning a trade that they would love to be doing and be ready to work right after graduation.

Since we already pay tax dollars for public education I'd like to see THAT happen.[/b]
I agree!
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  #12  
April 30th, 2007, 01:07 PM
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I thought that's what Pell grants are for - people who truly can't afford college (and whose parents truly couldn't afford to save for it) can take them out. I used to work for a junior college, and any of our prospective students who were on AFDC were automatically eligible for Pell grants. It was great, because that was the only way they could have afforded college - and a lot of them were truly grateful for the chance.

Quote:
Financial aid isn't perfect though. The people getting shafted by financial aid are the middle class kids, whose parents don't have enough money to pay their way, but at the same time they make "too much" for them to get financial aid.[/b]
This is why I think parents need to make it a priority, if at all possible, to save for their child(ren)'s college. Unless they take out loans or want to spend a lot of extra years working their way through college, they're screwed in regards to financial aid.
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  #13  
April 30th, 2007, 01:39 PM
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I work for a college and our students are eligible for more than $1000 for their loans. They can get the federal student loans up to (sometimes more) $16,000.00. One thing a lot of people don't realize is that loans ARE considered "financial aid". Just because it isn't free money...doesn't mean it isn't financial aid.

Most jr colleges or universities will be significantly covered by pell grants when eligible for them, and loans can be taken out for living expenses.

I think if somone is on welfare, they can apply for Pell Grant (and will likely get it) and attend a community college to get an associate degree. They may not even have to take out loans. And the beauty of the loans...they don't usually go into repayment until 6 months post graduation. I'd hope by then they would be working.
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  #14  
April 30th, 2007, 03:47 PM
Caeden'sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
You know, I would like (to start with anyway) to see high schools offer job training programs. Years ago high school students could learn trades before graduation (mechanics, plumbing, construction, beauticians, secretarial skills and so on) rather than put every high school student on a "college bound" program.

Not every student is college bound. And that's not a reflection on intelligence or worth. It's just that college is not for everyone.

I read an article a few months ago about how many areas of the US are lacking in skilled trade workers. Our plumber, for an example, is past retirement age and would love to slow down, but he told me recently that he just can't find someone to take on in his business.

Skilled workers are part of the fabric of our society that we depend on. We depend on their being people who can fix our cars, our electrical problems, our plumbing, and the like.

There are too many kids (IMO) who graduate with high school with no where to go. They either cannot afford college or have no interest in the degree programs offered. Four years in high school on a "college bound" program was a waste for these kids when they could have been learning a trade that they would love to be doing and be ready to work right after graduation.

Since we already pay tax dollars for public education I'd like to see THAT happen.[/b]
I totally love this idea... I definitely think it would help a lot!
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  #15  
April 30th, 2007, 05:44 PM
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I worked through college-4 years of studying,working,eating,going to sleep and repeating the same thing the next day,and the day after that etc... and I had to take out more loans after the first two years. It is hard. I also went to a competitive school and my life was no picnic-I paid for it all myself and worked so I wasn't out partying like a lot of kids. I'm still paying them but it was worth it and at least they are low interest. I went to a state school thankfully. My DH went to a private and if you ask him about his student loans he always says "they'll probably never be paid off" because it seems like he's been and will be paying on them forever lol. It would be nice to see more grants (free money).
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  #17  
April 30th, 2007, 06:26 PM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Quote:
Do you think the government should pay for job training or college for those who are on welfare or other assistance programs?

I am leaning more towards no. My family could never have afforded to send me to college. My choice was either don't go or find a way to do it myself.

I did not qualify for any financial aide whatsoever. I worked full time the entire time that I was in college. It took me a bit longer to finish because I was also working but I did it. My graduation day was the proudest day of my life because I had done it all on my own. No one handed me anything and what I went through made me appreciate it that much more.

What bothers me is that my DH and I waited to have kids so that I could finish college.

Had he and I decided to just live together and have children the college would have only been able to consider my income in financial aide and I would have qualified for almost a full ride. However, because we got married and waited to have kids I had to pay for my entire education.

I believe in financial aide because college is ridiculously expensive but I don't think it is something that should just be handed out either.[/b]


Well, I get (gasp!) financial aid, because I am not perfect like you and did everything backwards. I have three children. The way I see it, there is no way in hell I would be able to work fulltime (and quite possibly a second parttime job too, to cover for college, since I would not likely make more than around $8 p/h, and the fulltime job would have to first go to living expenses, etc.), AND take care of three toddlers, (by myself, BTW), study, make VERY good grades (since, at least here, my area of study is VERY, VERY competitive -out of the roughly 800 applicants every year, only the top 120 applicants are accepted- ), clean the house, cook dinner, get a decent amount of sleep (and I am not talking 10 hour, or even 8 hour nights, I am talking about 5-6 hours), AND maintain my sanity.

There really is just no other way, than to humbly accept the financial aid that is awarded to me (which includes scholarships and grants). Thank God there are people in this world who are not engrossed with such envy such as yourself. Don't be envious of the poor, seriously. I am not getting a 'free ride'. I work just as hard as anyone else to get my education, just in different (or maybe not-so-different) ways. My grades/education are evidence of my determination and strength, not of my socio-economic status, thank you very much.

Quote:
So now we should do away with the pell grants too, and have everyone take out loans instead?

Why not expand who is eligible for pell grants instead.

The problem with loans is that there is only so much you can borrow your freshman and sophomore year. And it usually is not enough to cover living expenses/dorm, tuition, etc.
[/b]
DITTO!!!!! YES, YES, AND YES!!!!!!!!! My first student loan was a whopping $1,000!!! WOW! That ALMOST covered my books!!!

This year, I am hoping that they award me just a little bit more than $1,000 (I am told the subsequent years in college result in higher loan awards). So.....I'll let y'all know in 4-6 weeks (just turned in my loan papers).

Edited to change a word for a better one.
[/b]

I understand that you need the help and it is great that you are using it. But please excuse me if it bothers me a bit that I am now working to help support your education. I worked to support my own. You didn't have to have children before you went to school. That was a choice that you made. Obviously, having children and trying to go to school isn't easy which is why I chose to do it the other way around.
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  #18  
April 30th, 2007, 06:28 PM
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I definately think it should either provide loans, aid, or training....

Think about it---the sooner people are educated and can make a decent paycheck--the faster they'll get off gov't aid, resulting in less taxpayer money into the system.
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  #19  
April 30th, 2007, 06:43 PM
Caeden'sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: somewhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,765
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Do you think the government should pay for job training or college for those who are on welfare or other assistance programs?

I am leaning more towards no. My family could never have afforded to send me to college. My choice was either don't go or find a way to do it myself.

I did not qualify for any financial aide whatsoever. I worked full time the entire time that I was in college. It took me a bit longer to finish because I was also working but I did it. My graduation day was the proudest day of my life because I had done it all on my own. No one handed me anything and what I went through made me appreciate it that much more.

What bothers me is that my DH and I waited to have kids so that I could finish college.

Had he and I decided to just live together and have children the college would have only been able to consider my income in financial aide and I would have qualified for almost a full ride. However, because we got married and waited to have kids I had to pay for my entire education.

I believe in financial aide because college is ridiculously expensive but I don't think it is something that should just be handed out either.[/b]


Well, I get (gasp!) financial aid, because I am not perfect like you and did everything backwards. I have three children. The way I see it, there is no way in hell I would be able to work fulltime (and quite possibly a second parttime job too, to cover for college, since I would not likely make more than around $8 p/h, and the fulltime job would have to first go to living expenses, etc.), AND take care of three toddlers, (by myself, BTW), study, make VERY good grades (since, at least here, my area of study is VERY, VERY competitive -out of the roughly 800 applicants every year, only the top 120 applicants are accepted- ), clean the house, cook dinner, get a decent amount of sleep (and I am not talking 10 hour, or even 8 hour nights, I am talking about 5-6 hours), AND maintain my sanity.

There really is just no other way, than to humbly accept the financial aid that is awarded to me (which includes scholarships and grants). Thank God there are people in this world who are not engrossed with such envy such as yourself. Don't be envious of the poor, seriously. I am not getting a 'free ride'. I work just as hard as anyone else to get my education, just in different (or maybe not-so-different) ways. My grades/education are evidence of my determination and strength, not of my socio-economic status, thank you very much.

Quote:
So now we should do away with the pell grants too, and have everyone take out loans instead?

Why not expand who is eligible for pell grants instead.

The problem with loans is that there is only so much you can borrow your freshman and sophomore year. And it usually is not enough to cover living expenses/dorm, tuition, etc.
[/b]
DITTO!!!!! YES, YES, AND YES!!!!!!!!! My first student loan was a whopping $1,000!!! WOW! That ALMOST covered my books!!!

This year, I am hoping that they award me just a little bit more than $1,000 (I am told the subsequent years in college result in higher loan awards). So.....I'll let y'all know in 4-6 weeks (just turned in my loan papers).

Edited to change a word for a better one.
[/b]

I understand that you need the help and it is great that you are using it. But please excuse me if it bothers me a bit that I am now working to help support your education. I worked to support my own. You didn't have to have children before you went to school. That was a choice that you made. Obviously, having children and trying to go to school isn't easy which is why I chose to do it the other way around.
[/b]
Okay, but no one can change the past. So what would you prefer she do? Not get the help to go to school, and just stay on government assistance forever? Seems to me it's better all around that she get the schooling so she can make a living on her own. Spends less of "your" tax money that way, right?
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  #20  
April 30th, 2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I work for a college and our students are eligible for more than $1000 for their loans. They can get the federal student loans up to (sometimes more) $16,000.00. One thing a lot of people don't realize is that loans ARE considered "financial aid". Just because it isn't free money...doesn't mean it isn't financial aid.

Most jr colleges or universities will be significantly covered by pell grants when eligible for them, and loans can be taken out for living expenses.

I think if somone is on welfare, they can apply for Pell Grant (and will likely get it) and attend a community college to get an associate degree. They may not even have to take out loans. And the beauty of the loans...they don't usually go into repayment until 6 months post graduation. I'd hope by then they would be working.[/b]
What the hell? LOL, why am I getting screwed over?!
[/b]
I don't know! Our students pay per program, not per class...maybe that has something to do with it? I work in admissions...NOT financial aid! But that $1000 doesn't seem near enough for nursing school.
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