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  #1  
May 16th, 2008, 05:02 AM
Carmela's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,071
I really probably shouldn't vent about work like I do on here, but this woman this morning has really irritated me, and I know several of you feel strongly about pet care, and spaying/neutering in particular, so I will.

I got a call at 4:20 this morning. Her 10lb, 10 year old, shih tzu has been in labor since yesterday, actively pushing since midnight and no pup yet. I talk to her for a while and realize that the dog is gonna need a c-section, so she decides to meet me at the clinic so I can look at the dog.

I get there before she did and pulled her chart. When this dog was two years old she had surgery to repair an umbilical hernia but it says several times in the record - DO NOT SPAY, Owner wants to breed. When she gets there I check, and the pup is still on the wrong side of the pelvis, so she will need a c-section. Likely that pup is dead and who knows how many more there are (obviously I didn't take an x-ray to look.) Apparently she has tried to breed this dog to other shih tzus for years, and Sophia always turned the boys down. Then two months ago she was let out to go pee and locked up with a toy poodle. Of course this dog is her baby so I have to do everything I can to save her. Oh and while Sophia is the one she is worried about, but she really would like to have the pups alive too. At least she is gonna let me spay her after I get the pups out. Well, I got her on IV fluids and gave her some pain meds, then I came home to shower. I am about to go back to actually do the surgery as soon as some help arrives. Wish me luck "saving the pups." People just make me so mad sometimes.
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  #2  
May 16th, 2008, 09:04 AM
ZaydensMomma's Avatar Aaron Nicole
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 16,443
Oh my gosh! Vent all you want!
Shame on the owner.
I don't like breeders... they are only breeding for money reasons.

I hope sophia and the pups get well!

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  #3  
May 16th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,535
as aaron said, vent all ya like! I hope it went ok? Let us know when you get a chance
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  #4  
May 16th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Carmela's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,071
There were two pups (girl and a boy) and they both lived amazingly enough. I am a little worried about Sophia still. She did not handle surgery well, and got a little shocky in recovery. She had a lot of bruising post op and was really pale, despite all the fluids and pain meds. I was worried she might still be bleeding through one of her ligatures after surgery, but I did an ultrasound scan and did not see any free fluid in her belly. I ended up sending her home tonight for the owner to watch and make sure she lets the pups nurse (She would if you made her, but she didn't roll on her side on her own, and she was not cleaning them.) I am still very worried about her, but she is back in her owner's hands now, and at least spayed to boot. The owner actually asked me when she picked them up tonight, "I am gonna keep one since Sophia is 10, but I am gonna sell the other. How much should I sell it for?" How do you answer that? I told her to just look at the typical price in the paper when they were old enough to be sold.
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  #5  
May 16th, 2008, 08:02 PM
nikas_mommy's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,035
What a *****. Poor baby! I am glad the pups made it through
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  #6  
May 16th, 2008, 08:33 PM
lil.Guppy's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 299
I saw the same thing when I was working at the clinics! There was always those puppy mill backyard breeders that would bring in numerous females for c-sections. The dogs were not even good quality and it just really urked me!
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  #7  
May 17th, 2008, 07:55 AM
mrsapexpredator's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kelton, Texas
Posts: 479
This topic of breeding has really bothered me in the last few yrs. I have a Jack Russell (he is my baby)He just turned 2. He stays inside, sleeps inside in bed with us spoiled baby. He is not neutered! We may want to breed him if the right breeder wanted us too. I also have 2 german Shepherds. They are 1 now (not from the same litter) We did a lot of research on the breeders we bought them from (the main reason we bought them was becuz we were broken into twice last yr and over $15,000 worth of stuff stolen). I bought these dogs for protection. They are being trained for this. My vet had kept asking me when I was going to spay & neuter my pets. Over & over & over again until I snapped! I had from day 1 spoke to the vet about doing x-rays of hips, helping to do some testing to make sure these shepherds were in good healthy condition to breed after age 2 or so if I wanted too. I was trying to ask for advise from an educated animal doctor and because of her views that all animals should be spayed & neutered I needed to listen to her and screw anything I wanted to do with MY ANIMALS! I asked for all of my records (for all 4 of my animals) made a scene in the vets office because I was very irrate! My point is these are my animals and I keep them contained in a fenced yard. Feed them Royal Canine, heartguard, Advantix and take them to the vet every yr and love them to death. You are going to tell me what I can do with my animals!!!!!!! My girl went into heat in December and my husband made her a doggie condo that is 250 sq feet. SO none of the boys Boone & Cujo) or neightborhood dogs could get to her. But my point is please be careful in judging people because they may want to breed. I am trying to not be ignorant in this and have contacted every resource that I can to make an educated decision to breed or not. That 3 week heat was rough for me I was all alone on Christmas because DH flew to texas to see family and I couldn't drive to Miami to see family because I couldn't leave Lakota in the condo for more then 4 hours at a time (my own choice, I know). So now I am looking for a new vet that can actually come out here to my house so I don't have to take them anywhere and I will let that vet know of my choices and if they don't accept that then not to come out. Sorry for the rant I just thought it was important for me to say!
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Me: 31 DH: 30 TTC since: May 2007 Married: 9/18/2004 S/A - Normal
HSG results: left block tube/but was able to clear (2/6/08)
Started 1st cycle of Clomid 50 mg - 3/29 BFN! Started 2nd cycle of Clomid 50 mg - 4/27 BFN!
Started 3rd cycle of Clomid 50 mg - 5/25 BFN! Lapro Aug 11. Lasered 2 adhesions on left tube but everything looks great!!
Started Clomid Sept 12-16 - Had 150 IU of Follistim on Sept 19 - Follies collapsed - Blood work all came back in range NO PCOS ..
Started Femara 2.5 3-7 u/s 10/22 Follistim injections 10/24,25 & 26
Follie Scan 2 were mature, 17.8mm & 16.8mm Doctor gave me trigger 10/26 and IUI 10/27 Tested - Nov 8 13dpiui and BFN
Started Femara & Follistim - we have 1 follie 18mm - trigger 11/21 and IUI 11/22 Testing on 12/6 BFN

On A TTC BREAK Out of the blue (1st unmedicated cycle since 3/08) BFP 2/7/09
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  #8  
May 17th, 2008, 08:46 AM
Carmela's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2,071
There are good breeders out there. There are also a lot of people that just get dogs and try to get their money back out of them by breeding them and selling the pups, and then there are people that just don't care and neglect their animals in every way. This particular woman made me ill because her dog has a heritable issue (umbilical hernia) that she just had repaired and tried to breed the dog anyway. Plus she let the dog get bred at 10 YEARS OLD. That is way to old for a female to carry pups. A responsible breeder will have their females spayed at 6 or 7 years old whether they every got pups out of them or not. Sophia is a sweet dog, but she is an ugly shih tzu, not the quality need to keep the genetics of the breed together that a responsible breeder would breed. We do have a couple of responsible breeders that come to us. One of them I love. She breeds poodles and the occasional malti-poo simply because of demand (she doesn't care much for the "designer dog" mutts.) All of her dogs are on HW prevention and she brings the females in at 50 days gestation to get x-rays so she knows how many pups there are. She does not breed on consecutive heat cycles, and she always waits until they are two years old for their first litter. She gets every pup its first shot and exam before she even considers sending it to its new home. Unfortunately she is getting out of breeding dogs. Her mother is having a kidney transplant this summer, and she doesn't feel she will have time to take care of the dogs like she should. Plus she had one pup that was born with a severe heart murmur and died at 7 months old (she obviously did not sell her, she refunded the money that had already been paid for her when we found the murmur.) That just devastated her, and now she holds her breath as we listen to each new pup's heart beat.

The other responsible breeder I don't care for as much simply because she is a little crazy. But she breeds chocolate labs. She has them all OFA certified for hips and elbows before she breeds them and does take care of all her dogs. In my opinion, she has some ugly dogs, but they are from good blood lines and she seems to think they are good quality for the breed, so she keeps breeding them.

Also to be completely honest spaying is SO much more important for the average pet than neutering. Spaying your female before her first heat cycle almost completely prevents breast cancer (99.9%). Then of course it also prevents, pyometras, unexpected pregnancies, need for emergency c-sections, mastitis, metritis, bloody spotting all over the house every six months, getting chewed up as males fight over her. For males it isn't as important. Neutering them does prevent testicular cancer, many prostate problems, rectal prolapses, potentially getting hit by a car or getting into dog fights trying to get to a female in heat. But those benefits are seen no matter what age you have them neutered. In fact castration is the typical treatment for most of those problems.

Sorry this got so long. I know many vets, including me, can be pushy about spaying and neutering. Just so you know where we are coming from, most of the people we see that want to breed their dogs have no idea what they are doing, and do not take as good of care of their animals as the ones that have them "fixed" early. I know it is most, not all (I can give a few examples off the top of my head of wonderful owners with intact animals, one I even talked out of neutering her boxer earlier this week, because I knew she wasn't ready to do it and would regret having it done.) but many times from our brief exam room visits it is hard to tell what kind of owner someone is. With me, typically, I will talk to the owner about why I recommend it, and if they still want to breed I will make a note in the chart and try not to mention it again, unless they ask. But if they don't specifically tell me they want to breed, I will mention the recommendation at each wellness visit (puppy shots, annual exam.)
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  #9  
May 17th, 2008, 01:49 PM
nikas_mommy's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,035
I am pushy about spaying and neutering, because I do rescue work. I really HATE the people who say they will have one litter so their kids can witness a birth - go buy a freaking DVD then!!!!!

I say this to anyone (not you sweetie): work at a kill shelter where half the animals brought in have to be put down, not because they are too ill, but because no one wants them. Look those babies in the eye when they are being put down. Then ask yourself if you could willingly breed your animals knowing those animals just died.

A good REAL breeder for the sake of the breed doesn't really turn a profit in their litters. By the time they pay for all the medical care etc and send those pups to a loving home, they are lucky to break even.
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  #10  
May 17th, 2008, 09:17 PM
mrsapexpredator's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kelton, Texas
Posts: 479
Carmela - I respect what you do and some of my patients are idiots (non-compliant) too so I know where you are coming from there! My male jack is def. breeding material. Honestly I do not think my female is quality enough to breed (she is a great dog & protective, she is my baby girl) but I don't think she is quality enough to represent the German Shephard breed (And maybe that is what my vet thought) (There was more to it then that)/ My male on the other hand has a lot of great features & qualities! We have another yr to make our minds about breeding her or not. We do have a well respected K-9 breeder coming to look at both of them and give us some input on what he thinks.


Hurry_up_BFP - You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. I am glad that I don't work at one of those places because I would have a lot more animals! Thats not fair for someone to tell me that I cannot have a full blooded German Shephard to protect my family , I need to go to a shelter and find a dog to protect me family. Breeders make enough money believe me, I have a few friends that are very successful. But they also only started doing it for the Love of the breed! To better the breed, so that there children can have the same quailty of dog years down the road. Not for the money!


I hope there are no hard feelings here and that I haven't offended anyone in saying the things I have. I still love speaking with you (even about this stuff) I love being able to discuss things and maybe not agree but still respect each others opinions. I love my animals and will do almost anything to protect them. Some people think I am strange the way I take care of my animals. Dh says I see how much money we spend on the animals every month I can only imagine how much we will spend on our child!
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Make a pregnancy ticker


Me: 31 DH: 30 TTC since: May 2007 Married: 9/18/2004 S/A - Normal
HSG results: left block tube/but was able to clear (2/6/08)
Started 1st cycle of Clomid 50 mg - 3/29 BFN! Started 2nd cycle of Clomid 50 mg - 4/27 BFN!
Started 3rd cycle of Clomid 50 mg - 5/25 BFN! Lapro Aug 11. Lasered 2 adhesions on left tube but everything looks great!!
Started Clomid Sept 12-16 - Had 150 IU of Follistim on Sept 19 - Follies collapsed - Blood work all came back in range NO PCOS ..
Started Femara 2.5 3-7 u/s 10/22 Follistim injections 10/24,25 & 26
Follie Scan 2 were mature, 17.8mm & 16.8mm Doctor gave me trigger 10/26 and IUI 10/27 Tested - Nov 8 13dpiui and BFN
Started Femara & Follistim - we have 1 follie 18mm - trigger 11/21 and IUI 11/22 Testing on 12/6 BFN

On A TTC BREAK Out of the blue (1st unmedicated cycle since 3/08) BFP 2/7/09
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  #11  
May 17th, 2008, 11:39 PM
nikas_mommy's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 2,035
Just so you know, almost half the dogs in the shelters are purebreeds, many with papers. Get in touch with any breed rescue - they see pups, they see 2-3 year old dogs on top of the older dogs abandoned because they were too old to breed.

Our pudgy princess is a full bred throwaway because she was past show age and too old to breed anymore.
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on a not trying, not preventing break this cycle due to my health...


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