Is this considered CIO?

ShannonMVT · #1 June 21st, 2009, 12:50 PM

I know, I know, it's another one of my incessant posts about sleep, haha.

So I've been trying to get a sort of routine going since I think Matthew hasn't been getting enough sleep, he gets fussy and overtired and doesn't want to go down.

I've been trying to do the EASY, Eat, Activity, Sleep, You time. Which goes okay but then he wants to nurse to sleep so I end up nursing every 1.5 hours or so, with every other one of the sessions being more of a "snack". I have mixed feelings about this BUT I also know that in other cultures, babies nurse much more frequently than they do here in the U.S. and it's actually supposed to help reflux to have shorter, more frequent meals. So right now I'm doing it b/c it works.

The big struggle is getting him to go down for bedtime. He goes down sooo late and I want to adjust this. Last night, he got a bath, jammies and long nursing session. Then down at 8:30 and slept 45 minutes and awake again. No problem, I feed him again for like 45 minutes. Hold him a bit and try to put him down. He cries and spits up. Nurse again, down again, crying and spitting up again, etc. I think part of the problem is that he is so "tanked up" in the evenings that it makes the spitting up worse and it upsets him to have the spit up all over his face. Don't blame him. Then he gets all worked up and I need to find a way to calm him besides just nursing again.

So finally at midnight last night, he was tired and cranky and not really hungry, and I had been trying to get him asleep again for almost 3 hours. Dh "made me" let him cry in his bassinet, but as he cried we were rubbing his back and shushing him to calm him down. After a few minutes he'd calm, and then a few minutes later, he'd start crying and thrashing around again, and we'd do the back rubbing and shushing but didn't pick him up. A few times of this and he fell asleep for 5 hours.

This isn't CIO is it? I felt so bad that I wasn't picking him up but I had already tried that numerous times (picking up, nursing till sleeping, putting him back down) It's the transition from my arms to the bassinet that is a real bugger. He always wakes up to some degree so I feel like I need to get him calmed down once he's in the bassinet.

~*Bethy*~ · #2 June 21st, 2009, 01:21 PM

in a way yes it is, but not really. I would just pick him up, comfort him and then put him back down. Does he sleep swaddled? Have you tried peppermint water or gripe water? It sounds more like a tummy problem than a sleeping problem. Like I mentioned to Resi in her post, try some white noise and see if that helps soothe him. My daughter slept in her swing for nap and bedtime till she was 4-5 months - he might just need that constant movement. Hang in there Shannon, your doing a great job (and smack that pesky hubby of yours)

~Beth

Mars · #3 June 21st, 2009, 01:44 PM

I guess it could be CIO but you were there the whole time. Remember that you have to find a method that works for you all. I really hope he settles in to a routine soon.

ShannonMVT · #4 June 21st, 2009, 01:53 PM

He isn't liking his swing these days for some reason. Swaddling, we did for awhile but he doesn't like it anymore and now we're doing tummy sleeping. It seems to help him sleep longer when he does fall into deep sleep.
I do have white noise/sound machine and that seems to help some. Haven't tried the gripe water, dh is a butt about one of the ingredients in the kind I have.
Picking him up and trying to comfort him doesn't seem to calm him.

The only surefire thing is to nurse him again. I may try a pacifier again but he doesn't always want to take one.

~*Bethy*~ · #5 June 21st, 2009, 02:15 PM

so make some mint water - just pure mint minced in water, drain the chunks out and give him the liquid. All natural, no chemicals, etc. What kind of swing do you have? I had the cradle one (rainforest) and I put the seat between sideways and forward motion, so she was swinging kinda diagonal, very gentle, and the music always helped. I wish I lived closer, Id be there in a jiffy to help out!!!

ShannonMVT · #6 June 21st, 2009, 03:51 PM

Aww thanks Beth.
My mom will be here some this week so maybe she and I can work on the routine thing.

He has a travel swing that used to be my niece's. He used to like it but not really anymore. I looked at the full size ones at BRU, but they were like $150, yikes!

Frozendesire · #7 June 21st, 2009, 07:06 PM

No it's not CIO. To me CIO is when they are left completely alone and cry until they (by themselves) either calm down and sleep or fall asleep out of exhaustion.

You were there patting his back and even speaking to him. A very good way to do it! Keep up with that cause he will soon learn to fall asleep in his bed without you there. I go from patting him and shooshing then to just shooshing to not needing you at all.

Remember that it is normal to have sleep issues. Its hard for babies to adjust to something so independent.

Mod-LadyCoconut · #8 June 21st, 2009, 09:38 PM

I wouldn't consider it CIO. In my mind, CIO is where they're kind of abandoned to cry until they fall asleep from exhaustion and feel alone. By being there to rub his back and soothe him... you're still comforting him when he's upset but being there while he falls asleep without the hassle of laying him back down which is what seems to be the problem. don't second guess yourself if this is working for you... it sounds healthy to me, he's not alone and is being comforted, just in a different way than being held.

#9 June 21st, 2009, 11:02 PM

Shan it's a very normal pattern for crying, calming, crying, calming, etc until he settles off to sleep. If I could do Kirsty at Matthew's age again, I'd do exactly what you're doing. I wanted to use Shush/Pat but she was too old when I read about it.

And the nursing to sleep ruining the EASY - we had that too. Just turn it around to be a little of AESY. I had to do this and it does work. Gradually you will be able to turn it back to EASY. I'm almost at EASY but I rock or bounce Kirsty in the bouncy to go to sleep. But because she is old enough to show good tired cues now, it doesn't take me long most times.

IMO CIO is when baby is in their cot/bassi and mum/dad leave the room and let them cry until they fall asleep. I don't think what you are doing is CIO at all. He's probably more whinging than crying, because he is tired. If he sounds like he is "mantra" crying, the same whiny noise over and over - it can be his way of making noise to go to sleep, if that makes sense? The BW talks about the different types of crying in "Secrets of the BW" book. Also how to recognise them & what they mean.

Angelaosaurus-rex · #10 June 22nd, 2009, 05:42 AM

I don't think its CIO. CIO is when you like leave the baby alone to cry.Landen nursed that often too at Matthews age, it slowed down around 4 months. It sounds to me like your doing a great job!!!

IamMom · #11 June 22nd, 2009, 09:43 AM

There is a great book by Dr. Marc Weissbluth called "healthy sleep habits, happy child" - i've already broke it out cause I'm determined to have Nora sleeping thru the night by the time we go to Aruba in Oct! It outlines several methods of sleep training from complete "extinction" (CIO), graduated extinction, down to no-cry solutions. His point is you have to find what works for your child and your family. There are also chapters by age which I find very helpful. I think Matthew is too young for serious sleep training and probably does still need food at night if he's acting hungry but it sounds like you are doing the best you can to establish a routine and an earlier bed time - both things most experts advocate for a happy "well slept" baby. Good luck Shannon!