[ShannonMVT]

Okay so this week I've had it. I know I've said that before but this time...really. We had made a little progress and it all got blown and now Matthew hates his crib. He screams any time I put him in there. He is having a hard time nursing to sleep too, it takes forever and doesn't work half the time. Then I lay him in his crib and he wakes up. For the past week from bedtime (maybe around 7:00 give or take) he wakes up every 30 min to an hour until midnight. Every night I want to go to bed around 10 pm and he keeps me up till midnight. So then from midnght till 7:00 a.m. he wakes up once or twice more.

Tonight was IT. I let him cry and scream for 20 minutes and he finally fell asleep. I've tried in the past going in to comfort him but honestly I think it just pisses him off more that I'm there but not picking him up or even picking him up but not nursing him.

So my sleep training ladies...what is your experience with the night wakings? Do I just let him cry himself to sleep again and not go in at all? Go in and check on him, try to comfort (pick up or not?) and then let him cry? Nurse him at all? (I don't think it is unreasonable for him to nurse maybe once more in the night but obviously not when he wakes up only an hour after he's been put to bed).

I'm trying this for 3 days. I figure 3 days won't kill him and it won't kill me. I just need to figure out how to handle night wakings.

Oh and naps, what about naps?! He nurses to sleep for those and he has been refusing a PM nap which I think he still needs.

Any help is appreciated, I've got to figure out what I need to do before he wakes up...I don't have any of the books.

[~*sierra*~]

i hope sleep training peeps come help quick! *hugs*

[IamMom]

Can I call myself a "sleep training lady"!????? I would recommend "cold turkey" or "extinction"...that is what worked for Nora...with Harrison I went in and "check and consoled" at first but after the first night or so went to "extinction" - but still no picking up....I only had to stand crying for about three nights with each and from them on both are good sleepers...go down without fuss and stay asleep all night....and neither of my kids nursed at that point but I still NEVER gave in and gave the a bottle....I firmly believe that my babies no longer needed a bottle between 7:30 pm and 7:30 am at 9 months.....not all mothers can feel okay about this or feel good about this....I would not nurse or feed during the night - especially now that Matthew is almost a year old....anyway... you have to make that decision for yourself but it may make it harder for him to learn to go back to sleep without it for a while and you need to decide when you want that ALL night sleep to finally happen.
This took 3 nights for Nora and probably no more than 5 for Harrison....totally worth it..hard to listen to them cry ...yes...did I want to go snuggle them and love on them ...yes...did I feel like a bad mom at that moment...yes...did I know what I was doing was okay and was best for them and was making them healthier and happier kids....and me a happier and healthier mom.....No doubt about it!

Nora still "fusses" every once in a while in the night or at like 5:30 am, def not every night maybe once a week...but I just let her fuss back to sleep - she's is either doing that sleepy cry thing that is not even real crying or just babbling etc. She always goes back to sleep within minutes...serioulsy. I really recommend not going in for night wakings....he needs to learn to fall back to sleep without really even crying or caring or knowing that he actually woken up. They NEED their sleep...uninterrupted....and sound...and the only way that can do that is in their crib/bed and for at least 10-12 hours. I believe in that and that is what works for our family and my kids sleep well and area healthy and happy so I'm going with it.

get the books!!!! You need to read the stories of real moms success during the crying - trust me!!!! and don't put a three day time limit on yourself....just do it.....once he's 2,3,4 even if it takes 10 days those 10 days will be a distant memory.

I'm no help on naps - neither of my kids have been long nappers - they go down easy (a little rocking and that's it) but only sleep for like 30 min to an hour....they are day care kids and this is just how day care kids learn to go to sleep - no one is there to cater to them at nap time and its hard to sleep in a room full of playing babies so they don't sleep long...fall asleep whereever, wheneven sleep often and sleep short is there way on naps!

good luck hun....it really sounds like you need to do this...the first thing in the books is knowing when enough is enough and you really are there!

[freesiangel]

I read Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child and he says that after 9 months your baby shouldn't be waking up at all to feed during the night, before that it is reasonable to go in once or twice (depending on age and how much they ate at bedtime) during the night. That said, I will probably still go in at least once during the night if Xander wakes up after he is 9 months old. He only wakes up once now as it is (and sometimes not at all), so I guess I feel that if he wakes up and is hungry, I'll feed him. He doesn't wake up til 3-5 a.m., though, so I know he's hungry and not just bored. So really, that is up to you. I think going in once a night would be fine, BUT make sure you just feed him until he's done eating (whether he pops off on his own or starts to snooze on the boob) and then simply burp him, maybe give him a little hug, and put him back in his crib. Do not turn on a light, even if you have to change a diaper (I have a little dim light I keep with me for help) and whatever you do, do not talk to him! The second I say a word to Xander his ears perk up and I'm screwed, he'll fuss once I put him back in his crib.

The first few days he'll probably fuss or cry when you do this, but you need to be strong and just let him adjust. I know it's hard, trust me I do! But he will adjust quickly and before you know it you'll just pop him in his crib, leave, and he'll be right back out again. You just need to stick with it, if you cave even once he'll quickly revert.

As for naps, I actually had better luck by making sure Xander had a full belly about 30 minutes before his nap, then I rock him for about 5 minutes in his room to calm him down and then put him down. This works great for us. If I try to nurse him he'll just cry and cry because he wants to sleep while nursing and doesn't want to go in his crib. He's not like this at night, just naps... I definitely had to tweak what the book said, because CIO didn't work that well for us for naps. He got it immediately at night, but for some reason he just doesn't like that for naps. BUT it works greats for many others. You'll have to figure out what's best for you. I'd suggest getting night time all taken care of first, though.

Good luck! You can do this. ((((huggles))))

[~*Bethy*~]

I agree my kiddie were sleeping through the night by 8-9 months (aside from morgans night terrors that's a whole nuther ball game) I think your on the right track. CIO sucks but sometimes you gotta be the bad guy!! Hang in there!!

[**jessie**]

Keep with it, Shannon. Keri is our 'sleep trainer' master, so I would go with her advice!! Just know that he WILL get it (may take longer than 3 days) but think how much happier the whole family will be. You have to keep telling yourself how important it is for Matthew's well being that he develops good sleep habits and its just going to get more difficult the longer you wait. You are a strong woman and a loving wonderful momma!!!

[Mars]

I can't offer any advice but good luck.

Just a side note...

Check to see that his mattress is comfortable. Amara hated her crib at one point and every time I put her in, she would toss and turn, not want to lay in it and just wouldn't sleep well but she would in be fine in her PnP. One day it just hit me that maybe the bed was uncomfortable. I was going to change the mattress, it has this plastic/vinyl type cover which made the bed really hard but I saw this quilted covers on Amazon and decided to try one of those first. I got one, stripped of the vinyl cover off the mattress and replaced it with the quilted cover. Now, we have no problems.

[ANGWife]

Well, I've given my advice before so you can try that if you want

[Alison81]

I have no advice as I went through this with Elsa, and it was terrible and exhausting, so I feel you 100%. I tried CIO, but it didn't work, she would just cry for an hour, fall asleep for 10 minutes, then wake up crying even louder. We once stayed up all night because of that. She only slept for 4 hours at time until she was 18 months old. She is 6 and still wakes up in the middle of the night if I don't give her melatonin before bed.

Maybe I am just more relaxed this time, but with Kylie I put her in her crib, give her a blankie, pacifier, and turn on her crib music and she's out within 10 minutes or less and sleeps all night, usually from 9-6. Of course I am also less neurotic and she sleeps on a comforter and also has a blanket over her and a blankie that she keeps right next to her face, so maybe she is more comfortable. I followed the no blankets and hard mattress rule with Elsa and I just don't think it was very comfortable.

[**jessie**]

Shannon, how did it go last night?

[ShannonMVT]

Keri you are THE sleep training lady. You're the TP oasis in the middle of all the APers on JM.

Okay so this went AWESOME. Seriously.

So he cried 20 minutes, then slept for 6 hours straight! (Versus waking up every hour over and over.) He may have wimpered a few times but never really woke up crying during that time.

Then he woke up and I had decided that I will give him one night feeding so I fed him at like 1:30 or so. He went back down awake no problems. Slept another 3.5hours or so then started crying. I was like "oh great now he's really going to cry for a long time". But it lasted only 6 minutes and then he slept in until 8:15 a.m. (later than normal).

I know this was just the first night but I'm feeling very hopeful now. I think it was key to not go in there and comfort him. That sounds so horrible and I never thought I would CIO, much less the extinction method but I swear it was just ticking him off worse to have me go in there if I wasn't going to nurse him to sleep.

Thanks ladies for the support and the advice! Maybe our house is going to start getting some sleep!

[freesiangel]

I'm so glad it went well! I didn't think I'd do extinction either, but Xander just needed it. He was the same way, he'd just get more mad if I went in there to comfort him. Every baby is different and we just have to go with the flow...

I hope tonight is a success as well!

[Frozendesire]

So glad it went well Shannon!! I hope it keeps that way!

It's really nice to have a mix of "types" of parenting in here. We are very respectful where people can feel free to give advice and ask questions even if it's not "attachment" and all that... so that's really awesome.

I think it's great to be able to take some of that and some of this and make it "YOUR" parenting style not just attachment or traditional.

Haha sorry I went off topic like that!

[~*Bethy*~]

yay!!! Its a whole new learning process that hes got to get the hang of

[Mars]

Glad it went well. Hope it continues on.

[ShannonMVT]

Originally Posted by Frozendesire

So glad it went well Shannon!! I hope it keeps that way!

It's really nice to have a mix of "types" of parenting in here. We are very respectful where people can feel free to give advice and ask questions even if it's not "attachment" and all that... so that's really awesome.

I think it's great to be able to take some of that and some of this and make it "YOUR" parenting style not just attachment or traditional.

Haha sorry I went off topic like that!

I know what you mean. I'm happy to get advice from those who have done different things and then of course try and see what works for me and my baby. It's so amazing how different they all seem to be, I am looking forward to having a second one and seeing in what ways he/she is like and unlike Matthew!

Oh AND I just put him down and he cried all of like 2 minutes and now he is asleep. I am so glad I am doing this now and not waiting any longer! So far it's going way better than I would have thought.

Hopefully tonight I get lots of

[IamMom]

Originally Posted by ShannonMVT

Keri you are THE sleep training lady. You're the TP oasis in the middle of all the APers on JM.

Okay so this went AWESOME. Seriously.

First off let me say....I LOVE YOU SHANNON! If I ever started a blog my that would be my title "TP oasis in a sea of AP'ers"!!!! I'm blushing and a little verklempt.... Let me just put it out there though that I don't agree with spanking...so I don't fit in with the strictest of TP'ers.....oh well...mix and match like steph said!!!

Secondly let me say ...I AM SO PROUD OF YOU! Matthew will be so thankful to have a mommy that was able to do this for him....cause you are doing it for him...even if you and dH are trying to get more sleep its ultimately so you can be rested to be the best mommy to him during the day as well! I am sooooo happy its going well so far...don't give up ...even if he has a regression night....it won't last...he'll go back to progress trust me!!!! You are doing awesome!

[Oriyan]

I am so glad your getting some sleep now!

The one thing I started telling myself when we had issues with J.J sleeping was, even though I, MYSELF don't want to practice CIO, my son, HIMSELF might NEED CIO in order to learn to sleep and that its not play time. We don't go in and comfort him unless he is outright bawling (which is defined by J.J as a cry and then a good 5 second deep breath before letting out a screeching cry). Whimpering and a quick little cry we just wait. Most of the time, the whimpers are "Ehh i lost my paci ehh help me!" and he'll find his paci, put it in and we're all golden. Right now we can go from 7:30pm-5am without waking. By 5am he needs a bottle, and then will sleep till 7am.

[Bre*n*Will=Reid]

I am so glad it went well, Shannon!

This topic would have been shut down in my PR for sure back when our kids were this age That's why I love WTTC grads! The ladies who don't agree just respectfully don't reply.

We did CIO and I will do it again with future children if need be. As far as the night wakings, we did was you did- just let him CIO again. Reid was a master at falling alseep on his own initally but would still wake every 2 hours in the middle of the night. So, eventually, we just let him cry the first time he woke back up. He cried for maybe 10 mins and then fell back asleep....and slept through the night!!! It was amazing!!

YAY for rest!

[ShannonMVT]

Originally Posted by IamMom

Matthew will be so thankful to have a mommy that was able to do this for him....cause you are doing it for him...even if you and dH are trying to get more sleep its ultimately so you can be rested to be the best mommy to him during the day as well!

Yup, I want him to be better rested too. I know he hasn't been getting enough good sleep. I have even wondered if maybe some of his milestones that he seems to be so late in reaching is b/c he isn't getting good sleep (since there is so much brain growth during sleep). Now I have no idea if that is possible or probable, just one of those "I wonder if" things.

Last night wasn't as grand but still manageable. He woke up numerous times where he just fussed or cried for less than a minute and went back to sleep. At 10:45 he cried off and on for a while, he'd cry, then lay down for a few minutes all quiet, then stand back up and cry. I thought about going to him but I was like no, he can't be that hungry as it hasn't been that long. I did go feed him at 4:00 a.m. for his one night feeding but he really didn't even seem that hungry, he was falling back to sleep on me after only 5 minutes or so. I think I can phase out that night feeding pretty soon. Then he cried off and on again for awhile at 6:45 a.m. and I thought about going and getting him (normally when I do this around this time, he won't go back to sleep and he's just up for the morning) but he finally fell asleep again, slept another 45 minutes and woke up happy playing with his feet.

So last night was more night wakings but hopefully he'll get better with those. I'm going to keep posting in this thread how things are going so I can be accountable for not changing my mind about the whole thing.