[Frozendesire]

ugh. I think it's time to do some kinda sleep training with Dustin. I mean it's been 15 months!! I just can't do this any more. He goes to sleep at 8:00 just fine, then he's up at like 10, 12, 1, 3, and then 5. I'm so exhausted.

Is it bad that I'm more worried about what my neighbours will think with the sound of him screaming (he doesn't really cry, he just screams, really loud lol), then how he will take it? UGH. They are so going to think I'm torturing him. I just don't know what else to do.

Please please please tell me what to do. He wont lay down in his crib, he just screams when I put him in there (half a sleep). He has to be fully sleep, then he'll wake up and scream.

I've tried going in and laying him down but then he fights me and keeps sitting and then sits there and screams. I'm thinking it might be more of a total CIO with out visitation because I think that will just make him madder... but how long can I let him scream for with out doing damage??

Also once he's a sleep what do I do if he wakes up???

This whole post makes me feel like a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE mother..............

[ShannonMVT]

First of all some motivation a la facebook... Lack of sleep linked to early death: study - Yahoo! News I kid. Sort of.

We had to do total CIO, with no "visitation" because as you said, it only made Matthew more mad when I'd go in and not pick him up or if I'd pick him up and not nurse him (once in awhile he'd be okay with just comforting but not usually). I really did not want to do it that way, but I had tried everything else (including the gradual weaning (where you gradually try to get them to stop nursing/rocking to sleep) approach.

What I did was nurse him before bed like usual, then put him in the crib, say night night, I love you. And just walk out. He'd stand up in his crib and scream (we could see what was going on b/c we have a video monitor). The first night he cried for 20 minutes. It only took 3 nights before he was STTN. Most times he'll scream for a minute b/c he is mad and he'll either suddenly drop onto his crib and go right to sleep or he will whiny cry off and on for a bit before he sleeps. We are having to redo our sleep training right now b/c he got back in bad habits when he was sick.

If you go hardcore you do not go in at all when they wake up at night and cry. What I personally did for a few nights was allow him to have 1 nighttime nursing. If he was really drinking, then okay. If he was just barely sucking, he got put down. After the 3 nights he wasn't waking up for the nighttime nursing at all. (Like if he would wake and cry he only cried for like 2 minutes and I didn't go to him.) I wouldn't give him the nighttime nursing until he had been asleep for at least 4-5 hours, so if he woke crying before then I let him cry again.

If you are really worried about the neighbors I have heard of ppl putting notes on their neighbors doors telling them they are doing sleep training. You can even make it cutesy. I think if you told them your son was waking 5 times a night they would totally understand why you are doing it!

Hopefully Keri the sleep training lady comes to give her input too.

Don't feel like a bad mother! You have to get your rest too in order to be a good mommy and grow your little baby boo! In the long run I really do think it's for the best and you CAN do it. Hey if you need it I would seriously give you my phone number to call and talk while he cries if you need encouragement. I know it's tough, I kept myself busy doing household chores while he cried.

Oh and one other thing, I did give myself person to go in and check him IF he started doing crying where I knew there was no way he could calm down (Matthew has a certain cry that's like this) or of course if he puked or something like that. It doesn't have to be do or die, you just want to avoid "giving in" because then they learn that if they cry long enough you'll go get them.

[Mod-LadyCoconut]

I have no experience with any of this so I don't have any solutions to offer, but I wanted to send some hugs b/c waking up that often sounds awful! I hope you both are STTN soon

P.S. - you're not a horrible mother either... so enough of that!

[~*Bethy*~]

Ditto to what Shannon #1 said god where were you guys when my kids were little

[Frozendesire]

Shannon, thanks SOOOO much for all those tips and experience! I'm going to re read it over a couple of times for sure.

Shannon, thanks for the hugs. Honestly... I don't even care if he gets up for cuddles a couple times at night, I don't even care if I have to cuddle him to go to sleep at night... but he wakes up 5+ times screaming and it takes forever to calm him down and I'm just so tired. Boo. Curtis woke up once for a drink until he was 2 and he always went back down no problem... I'd give ANYTHING to have that haha. I'm counting my months of possible sleep until new baby comes and they are dwindling!!! haha. EEP!

The only other issue I have is doing this when the boys are sharing a room.... Curtis wont be able to sleep with Dustin screaming/crying so much. Hmmmmmmm

[Mars]

I don't really have any advice but I hope something works. I do like the idea about the notes telling the neighbor that you are doing sleep training.

How long has the constant waking been going on? Has he cut his molars yet? Amara's gums are swollen and she tends to get up frequently if they're bothering her. Luckily this hasn't been happening too often.

[ShannonMVT]

Can you have Curtis come sleep in your room for a few nights while you do the sleep training? Put his mattress on the floor?

[Frozendesire]

Maybe, Shannon! I will talk to James about this all and see what he thinks!


Mari, he's been doing this since prob around 2 or 3 months old. He cut teeth when he was 11 months... four on the top and two on the bottom... until about 12.5 months. Nothing since then. I dont see any bumps but I can imagine teeth have GOT to be working there way through!! That's one of the reasons I've not done anything... I always think he's hungry, teething, tummy ache, uncomfy, too hot, too cold, EVERYTHING haha.

[IamMom]

I'm here I'm here....!!!! HA!

If you can....invest in the book "healthy sleep habits, happy child"...it will give you alot of good examples and reasons (from reputable doctors, etc.) of why CIO/sleep training techniques are good for your child and you will feel like a great mother...which you are ....not a horrible mother....I agree with the other gals...enough of that. Each child has their own personality and Dustin is a smart boy. Crying is sometimes in protest...like as adults we sometimes cry just b/c we're pissed not really because anything is really wrong with us...babies/kids are the same way....not really crying for any real reason just b/c they WANT something they don't really NEED...i.e. mommy's attention, the comfort of the boob, etc. etc.

I agree with having Curtis do a "sleep over" in your room or the living room whatever. He is old enough to feel a part of this process and a helper in it all. Harrison was very concerned the first few nights we let Nora cry while she fell asleep and he and I were still doing his bedtime. But finally I explained to him and he understood well enough that she was just upset that she couldn't hang out and since she was littler she really needed more sleep then him. That made him feel big and he would be really quiet etc. etc. Then one night DH was home for bedtime and we were all reading in Harrison's room and Nora started to cry a little and DH looked at me like "who's going to go deal with her" and Harrison was like "its okay daddy, she just needs to cry alittle, she's okay...she needs her sleep"....so he got it, and he felt good about helping her learn to sleep as well as HE DID!!!

There is a cute example of the notes on the neightbors door thing from the book I mentioned above!!!! An actual story from a real mommy who did it.

The sleep training books clearly illustrated the biology behind sleep and behind why a young child needs a certain amount of sleep, and uninterrupted sleep and unless your child is one of these children who hurts himself, like banging his head on the crib ect. or vomits from crying etc. due to these techniques it cannot harm your child...not physically and not emotionally. There may be very rare instances where children are effected emotionally but if you are sure that your child is not hungry, not in a hurtful situation (strangling etc.), not dangerously cold or hot, not sick...etc. then he will be fine....he will learn to sleep well...he will sleep well...and overall his health and his temperment should be better!

Good luck Stephenie...please let us know what you guys decide to do.....a well rested whole FAMILY is a good thing (especially you pregnant woman..you also need to consider that LO)!!!!

Originally Posted by ShannonMVT

Hey if you need it I would seriously give you my phone number to call and talk while he cries if you need encouragement. I know it's tough, I kept myself busy doing household chores while he cried.

Good idea Shannon...you are soo sweet! I read the sleep training books while Nora cried...yes at 1:00 am! I found it comforting to read that I was doing the right thing and read the stories of actual other parents who had SUCCESS after doing it...while she was cryin. Like Shannon said, this works fast and doesn't last for many nights...we could schedule chats in the middle of the night and come on and support Steph during the cries!!!!

[Frozendesire]

oh you ladies make me feel SOOOO much better... honestly.

James is feeling the same way I do, that we should, he prob needs it but it seems "mean" but is it really blah blah blah! Ya know? so I think I'll see about getting these books and get a grip as to what to do and see other moms who are doing the same thing.

The protest thing is SOOOOOO Dustin. You have no idea how spot on you are with that. And I KNOW this for a fact. His sleep improved dramatically (yes it was much worse then this) when I read something, I think it was Shannon, said that her little one didnt like to be covered? Well that's the same as Dustin. So now he has no blankets on him. Their room is warm so it's no issue that's for sure. But ya, Dustin protests with everything. he always screams to get his point across.

Okay so I'm going to try to NOT nurse him tonight. He doesn't need it, I offer him a bottle. Usually he drinks a bit of his bottle then asks to nurse so I let him... then he wakes up an hour or so later and finishes his bottle... uh... sooooo tonight I said no nursing but that he could have his bottle, sure enough he drank alot of it and fell asleep... so I guess we'll see what that means.

I think I'll get the book before I jump right into CIO, or see how things go.

Thank you so much for the support. I NEVER understood CIO, even when I had Curtis. I didnt understand why or how someone could choose to do it. Now I know.

thanks

[ScottishBrit]

Cambria NEVER slept. I swear!!! It drove me nut's. Thats the one thing Im scared about whenIm having this baby! I dont know if i can handle it again. She was always in our room and as soon as we moved her into her own room, she slept through the night. I will say that when she was acting like Dustin It was cause she was teething. She got one after another from 6 months on! Im sorry I dont have any good advice for you. I didn't know what to do either I just kinda delt with it and drove my self crazy!! But In your case with an older boy and one on the way you really can't. I hope it gets figured out soon so you dont go more crazy! Aren't they sharing a room? Doesn't he wake his brother?

[**jessie**]

I hope it goes well for you without the boob tonight. I think you are making the right choice about trying something right now... whatever that may be. You are going to be double exhausted when the new baby arrives and it would be really difficult to have adequate patience to do any sort of sleep training while caring for a newborn. Just have faith that he can do this. I know my pedi has always reminded me that good sleep habits are not instinctual for babies and children. It is a learnt process and for most children (besides the lucky few that have perfect sleepers to begin with), it falls to the parents to help them learn, both for their physical and psychological health. ((hugs))

Oh Steph, you're by no means a bad mummy for wanting your baby to get decent rest (and therefore getting you decent rest). Kids NEED sleep, and they need a good solid block of sleep. You're not a bad mummy by wanting to help Dustin get that. You're a good mummy for realising you all need it!

Whatever you choose to do, be consistent, do it each & everytime he wakes up in the night, try not to think about the neighbours - we did sleep training with Kirsty at 5.5months and again at 10.5months and the 10.5months one she cried a fair bit the first few nights, Kirsty's nursery wall is against the neighbours bedroom wall and they didn't hear a thing from her. Just think of it as a short-term training to achieve long-term sleep. If it makes you feel better, you could mention to them in passing that you plan to do some training and you apologise in advance for any noise, but hopefully it wont last more than a week or 2.

I've done a few different types of training with Kirsty, depending on what she needed at that time.

At 5.5 months we did a Controlled Crying with Visitation at 1min, 2mins, 3mins, 5mins and every 5mins thereafter. At 10.5months she learnt to stand up on her own. she was teething and had a cold, once the tething & cold settled, we did the Gradual Withdrawal method - 1st night at bedtime (and each time she woke in the night), I'd lay her down each time she stood up, then sit on the floor by her cot, no eye contact, no talking, no shhh'ing, just sit and wait until she fell asleep, but laying her down each time she stood. I did this for a few nights, then I moved one step away from the cot and did the exact same thing, then 2 steps away, 3 steps away, etc until I reached the doorway. It took a few nights to graduate from staying in the doorway to laying her down & leaving. The key is consistency. If you do something different just one time, they are lil monkeys and know they can keep crying in order to get the attention!

GL hunni! We're all here for you, every mum gets to a point one (or more!) time(s) in their baby/toddler-hood of just wanting sleep. Just go to SLEEP baby!! I spent many nights crying in the dark in the nursery, BFing/bottle feeding when weaned, Kirsty and begging her to go back to sleep. I'm sure all of us have! I'm not ashamed to admit!

[**Jenn**]

You are definitely not a bad Mommy Steph! I had to do with Liam what Shannon did with Matthew. That kid would not sleep unless he was sleeping on me--naps, bedtime, anything. He wanted to be held ALL NIGHT LONG! Going in to him to try and settle him just got him more angry so I just had to let him cry. It was the absolute hardest thing I've ever had to do but it only lasted a couple nights and he got the idea. He was about 15 months old when we did this with naps and just laid him down at night without rocking first--he had to be sound asleep on me first before I could even consider laying him in his crib. I was 6 months pregnant with Lochy and just couldn't do it anymore, I was desperate. It was really hard but so worth it and we were all happier people in the morning because we were all getting the sleep we needed.

This is something I could never do with Lochy (he is a puker), I could not sleep train him at all, just had to wait it out and he was 18 months before he was STTN. He also has night terrors which adds a whole other level to it because he's not actually awake when that happens. The boys share a room and actually Liam never wakes up when Lochy is up screaming with a terror, I don't know how that kid sleeps through it! lol

[midnight_starr]

I hope his sleep gets better soon!!!

[IamMom]

How did it go last night Steph???? I was thinking of you hun!

[ShannonMVT]

I was wondering how it went too!

I am in the boat with you! Dh got up and rocked Matthew last night when he woke and it started this night long process of him continuing to wake up and cry, ugh!

[Frozendesire]

It was okay. I didn't do any kind of CIO but I did stop nursing, well until morning. I was pooped. I just went in the billion and 1 times and held him/rocked him. It only took a few mins, usually.. except one time where he would fall asleep but then fight going back in his crib. That lasted about 45 mins.

Dustin does a few screams and then I'm in there to get him and that amount doesn't wake up Curtis. He usually stirs a bit but doesn't fully wake up. If he was in there for a while crying, Curtis for sure would be worried but I think he would be like Harrison and I could get him to understand whats going on.