[ShannonMVT]

Okay girl you have to help me out. I am going nuts here. You know I had Matthew sleep trained. Well, then we went out of town and he got sick with tonsilitis. Obviously I didn't let him cry then and he had lots of comfort nursing since his throat hurt.

It's been maybe 3-4 weeks since then and his sleep is still crappy. I've been letting him cry, but have not been 100% consistent every time. There have been a few times where he was so upset I could tell he wasn't going to calm down by himself and a few times where Dh went and got him (which I got mad about).

So anyway, I don't know what is going on. The other night he was really upset, I nursed him and then he played in his crib for 2 hours straight in the middle of the night, laughing it up. He was so tired the next day, BIG SHOCK. Then last night he woke up and cried for over an hour. I went in and told him it was okay and it was night night time and he continued to scream. Dh had the monitor.

The crying and whining is about to drive me insane. I know he isn't getting enough rest. He won't settle with anything but nursing and I don't want to go back to him waking every couple hours like he was before. But even when I do several days of CIO, it still isn't helping! We might have one good night and then the next is crappy again.

I know he isn't sick or teething btw. He is fine during the day except when he is having separation anxiety or when he is tired.

I can't keep doing this if it isn't going to get any better. I feel like a horrible mother listening to my baby scream and cry. I just don't know what else to do because I tried many other routes of gentler sleep training before, none of which worked. And now CIO isn't working either.

[~*Bethy*~]

Something else may be bugging him. Night terrors had Morgan up half the night from 12 months to almost 2 1/2. Now were thinking she has restless leg syndrome, as she still wakes up anywhere between 1-3 times a night. Not eaying this is what matthew has, I'm just saying maybe theres more to the story?

[IamMom]

You probably won't want to hear what I'm going to say.....nervous laughter ha ha ha ha...but I believe its the only way you'll get him back on track....you may not be uncomfortable with it and then it comes down to how much more patience you have with him and the other methods (gentler). It you want the quickest results I believe extinction is what ya'll need. Some babies need the extinction method and I think that's how you finally got matthew trained before, isn't it. Nora went thru that sickness period that got her off track and I had to do extinction for 3-4 nights to get her back on track..no problems since for like 4 months now. Some babies take longer - 5 to 6 nights or more....usually not more than a week though is what the advocates of this method say...but it sounds like you've only given it one or two nights of true CIO....you are giving in and he knows it. You are nursing some nights, letting him play others, going in and patting others, he knows that he can get you to do something besides sleep and he's good at it man! So I think all it will take from you is to gut it out for at least a week if it takes that and be 100% consistent....no going in...no matter how long he cries. I believe he is old enough not to need anything to eat like nursing etc. for at least 8 hours, some moms don't feel this way but I do. Also, if you are truly sure he is not bothered by some true affliction (other than wanting his way to be with you and not sleep) like teeth, some other sickness, really dirty dipes (rash), etc. than you have to let him cry...he's most likely just protesting...just b**ching...and like adults we do that all the time when really nothing is wrong but in our own mind bc we're not getting our way.

That's my suggestion...its harsh...it may sound rough...some moms will be digusted that I feel this way...but for me my child's well being and sleep needed for health mean more than letting them cry for a while...letting a child cry is different than making them cry...they are deciding to cry....they are usually not hurting or needing anything. I believe this...and if I feel this is the case with my child I let them cry. Crying is little ones way of communicating....adults yell babies cry.

I hope something works for you Shannon whether you do CIO or something else....a good night sleep in the house for everyone is priceless....our family couldn't function as we do without all of us sleeping so well at night.

good luck hun!!!!

PM if you wanna talk more about anything!

I'm not Keri but I hope you don't mind my posting? You say you do CIO... how do you do it exactly? Just to see if anyone can offer some pointers or suggestions

[~*Bethy*~]

Originally Posted by IamMom

You probably won't want to hear what I'm going to say.....nervous laughter ha ha ha ha...but I believe its the only way you'll get him back on track....you may not be uncomfortable with it and then it comes down to how much more patience you have with him and the other methods (gentler). It you want the quickest results I believe extinction is what ya'll need. Some babies need the extinction method and I think that's how you finally got matthew trained before, isn't it. Nora went thru that sickness period that got her off track and I had to do extinction for 3-4 nights to get her back on track..no problems since for like 4 months now. Some babies take longer - 5 to 6 nights or more....usually not more than a week though is what the advocates of this method say...but it sounds like you've only given it one or two nights of true CIO....you are giving in and he knows it. You are nursing some nights, letting him play others, going in and patting others, he knows that he can get you to do something besides sleep and he's good at it man! So I think all it will take from you is to gut it out for at least a week if it takes that and be 100% consistent....no going in...no matter how long he cries. I believe he is old enough not to need anything to eat like nursing etc. for at least 8 hours, some moms don't feel this way but I do. Also, if you are truly sure he is not bothered by some true affliction (other than wanting his way to be with you and not sleep) like teeth, some other sickness, really dirty dipes (rash), etc. than you have to let him cry...he's most likely just protesting...just b**ching...and like adults we do that all the time when really nothing is wrong but in our own mind bc we're not getting our way.

That's my suggestion...its harsh...it may sound rough...some moms will be digusted that I feel this way...but for me my child's well being and sleep needed for health mean more than letting them cry for a while...letting a child cry is different than making them cry...they are deciding to cry....they are usually not hurting or needing anything. I believe this...and if I feel this is the case with my child I let them cry. Crying is little ones way of communicating....adults yell babies cry.

I hope something works for you Shannon whether you do CIO or something else....a good night sleep in the house for everyone is priceless....our family couldn't function as we do without all of us sleeping so well at night.

good luck hun!!!!

PM if you wanna talk more about anything!

[Mars]

I can only offer good luck wishes. I hope Matthew settles soon.

[ShannonMVT]

Beth, there have been times when he wakes with a different cry and sounds totally freaked out and those times I've always gone to him b/c I thought night terrors.

I just hate this so much and I feel like I "put in my time" to get him sleep trained and quite frankly pissed that I have to do it AGAIN. I hate hearing him cry and it goes beyond just the normal mom thing. I have sensory issues and sound is a big issue with me, so for me to listen to him cry is just horrible. That's a big reason why I nursed him back to sleep over and over and over for so many months.

We are giving extinction another go since it worked last time. If it doesn't work, then I will find something else to try. Don't know what though, as I've tried so many other things.

Even with extinction, he never stopped crying at least a little and that kills me. Even when he goes down quickly, he'll cry. Like for naps I lay him down and he'll cry for just about 30 seconds b/c he is mad I put him in his crib (then he lays down and plays a bit and goes to sleep) but those 30 seconds of crying kills me, I just wish he would go down without a fuss.

Last night was okay all things considered. Down at 6:40, up at 7:00ish and cried for 30 minutes (horrible!), down again, cried for 1 minute at 10:00 pm, then slept till 7:00 a.m. next morning without a peep. So you'd think everything would be hunky dory but he is whiny this morning. He's only been up an hour and a half and I just saw him yawn. So I dunno if he's whiny b/c he is upset with me for letting him cry or if he's tired. I don't see how he can be tired when he finally got a good night's rest? Maybe he is trying to "catch up"? I think part of his issue is we've got a vicious cycle of over-tiredness going on. I told Dh I think a lot of this started when we kept him out late one night going to dinner with his family. Ever since then his schedule has been more off than usual.

[~*Bethy*~]

You have to just stick with it. Its the routine that will help him in the long run. He cant be expected to go down without a fuss if his routine is changed every other night, KWIM? Yes he will yawn, yes he will be cranky in the mornings. But the more you are consistent with the routine, the more he will learn that this is how it goes. I know, it sucks major! Now had I known about your sensory issues, I would have been suggesting other things before CIO, but you've done thoes already. Maybe DH can start putting him to bed, and getting up with him (if need be) instead of you? I know my kids go down easier for hubby then they do me.

Also, how many naps is he taking through out the day? if more than 1, start cutting thoes out and see if that helps.

[ShannonMVT]

Dh had some success with rocking him to sleep/for night wakings at one point but it hasn't worked the last few times he's tried. And it takes way longer to do it. And really, that just puts us in the same boat, just with a different dependency to get to sleep.

I don't mind putting him to bed. I like nursing him before bed, I just need to be better about making sure he is awake when I put him down. Last night I think he was already falling alseep b/c he was so tired. Sometimes bedtime is a booger and sometimes it's the night wakings.

He has only been taking one nap. Many times it's only an hour and a half, sometimes he'll go longer. If he takes a second nap, bedtime is more difficult and it's harder to tell when to put him down, so we usually just go for the one nap.

[~*Bethy*~]

Well, I know you dont wanna hear this - but neither of my babies slept through the night till they were a year +. Your on the right track, I just think you need to keep up with the routine. Hes more than old enough to be able to sleep through the night on his own. Hes just used to momma always being there I for one cant say anything about CIO and walking away cuz I always roomed with them past a year old due to space issues. Maybe there is something in his room causing him to wake up? Like a pipe in the wall? Would it be possible to put him in the living room in a pac n play for a night or 2, and see how he does?

Thats my other curiosity too - is that he doesnt like his crib. Ian hated his crib. But would sleep better in a pac n play.

Shan, I just want to add.... we are currently doing our 3rd bout of sleep training. Illness and/or teething always throw things off and we start again, however each time it takes shorter to get back on track. If tonight goes well (please please!!!), it will have taken us 1 proper, "stick to the rules" night of CC to kick start the natural sleep routine we know (and love). So I get what you're saying about having to do it a few times, it should get easier each time, pick one method and try to be consistent and tell DH he has to stick to it also... or he gets up everytime, every night

P.s. ((((((huggles))))))

[**jessie**]

((huggles)) I never knew you had a noise sensitivity. That must be really hard on you.

But I know Matthew can get this. It's not that the CIO or other methods don't work on him, it's that the process takes longer than 2-3 days to work. If you go in just once on even the 4th night to pat him on the back, you essentially start from the beginning once more. Just know that he has the ability to sttn without any problems and have faith in yourself that you are doing what is best for his physical and mental health in the long run.

Would you consider wearing ear plugs during the sleep training process especially since you are so sensitive? Your DH could be the one listening out for him. You would probably still hear him with earplugs, but maybe the noise wouldn't be so bad? Also, do you have a monitor on in your room at night? If so, I would turn it off so you can't hear every little peep he makes. Don't you use the AngelCare? You should be able to see the lights go on if he is making noise.

I'm not sure if he is having night terrors, but it doesn't really sound like it. A lady in my PR posted a topic because her son has them. I will put a link in here because she does a great job at explaining it and what it looks like: http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f9...t-terrors.html

[ShannonMVT]

Thanks ladies.

I don't think his crib is uncomfy. He has the same issues in the crib at my mom's house and the PNP at my in-law's. Also I've had him in the PNP in my room several times and it actually seemed worse. I think he doesn't like how confining the PNP is as he wiggles all over his whole crib through the night.

I guess I always hold onto the monitor because I feel like just in case something happened like him vomiting or something I worry that Dh wouldn't hear it. And in the morning I need the monitor b/c I pay attention to what time he wakes (Dh is like "oh I dunno" half the time) and I gauge when he needs his nap partly on when he woke up. I probably do need to let Dh take over monitor duty at least some of the time though.

Tonight hasn't been too bad so far. He managed to fall asleep sitting up in the corner of his crib.

[~*Bethy*~]

I wish JM had a like button

Well lets hope that he is a good sleeper for you tonight!!! Sounds promising so far

[IamMom]

It does sound good so far tonight yeah!!!!....but I'm going to say again you just have to be consistent....and no giving in to anything for him and he'll get it! I turn the monitor down if Nora starts to fuss....I know she's safe in there and I know she's doesn't get so worked up she vomits...but in the last three months I think I've had to do this like twice....seriously....cause she knows I mean business...actually one morning it was already past 6:30 (that's my rule - not before 6:30!) and I heard her crying so I went in there and she was still lying down and her eyes were closed so I think she was crying in her sleep...I went back to bed and she was googling happily a half hour later....so I learned ....don't always rush to them at the first instance of a crying noise!

Also I would do his naps same time each day regardless of when he got up - again this is consistency and babies love this.....pretty soon he will be getting up at the same time everyday and you won't have to worry about having the monitor and knowing when he got up to do nap time. Nora gets up pretty much same time each day - cause at daycare they put her down at the same times each day during the day...very consistent there....she goes to bed same time each night...and up same time again next morning.

GAhhh I've rambled about consistency but that is what I was getting at sorry!
Keep us posted on how he does throughout the next week of so!