[*krista*]

I couldn't get Charlotte to nurse this morning. She kept thrashing and pulling off. I don't think my milk ever let down and I was engorged, so I tried hot compresses, nothing. I couldn't get any out and Charlotte still refused. So I took a shower and STILL nothing came out (usually I just start leaking after a shower with no effort at all). I tried to nurse again anyway and she still refused. So I got out the pump and DH washed it and I pumped a little to get the milk flowing and make my breast softer. I got some out, tried to nurse again, and while she didn't refuse, I could tell she still wasn't getting anything and I don't know why. I was even pumping on the other side while she was nursing (once it comes out of one side it seems to like to leak out of the other too). So I had no choice but to pump some and give it to her in a bottle. I cried the whole time I was pumping.

I got two ounces out of the right breast and next to nothing out of the left breast, which is the one she was nursing from. I thought well maybe she got some after all because my boob seemed empty, but she ate the whole two ounces, so I don't think she did. What is wrong with my boobs??! I really don't want this to be the beginning of the end of nursing.

[**jessie**]

Well, I'm obviously no bf'ing expert, but if your boobs are hard and feel engorged then there is milk in there. It didn't disappear overnight.

I bet you anything she just was having a hard time latching on because your boobs were so engorged and pumping a bit out sounds like a good idea. Maybe she was just super hungry and that is why she drank the pumped 2 oz as well. How long had it been since she had eaten last?

btw, I highly doubt you have a supply problem. If you got 2 oz out of one boob and the baby is only a week old, that is a REALLY good supply! I think I was getting around 1 oz out of each boob at that stage.

[~*sierra*~]

its ok! i dont have any first hand advice, but pumping is ok! you can still go back to nursing her! i know lots of BF mamas will be in here with advice asap, and don't cry! it breaks my heart to think of u pumping and crying, it REALLY is ok! I bet like in the olden days when people lived in closer communities and there was no pumps when moms had problems i'd bet anything other moms nursed their babies, so at least you still have the option of her getting your milk. the pump use in this case just feels like problem solving to me! i just know if you and charlotte keep at it you will be experts in no time!

[*krista*]

Thanks Jessie and Sarah. It is good to know my supply is good. She was really hungry, all of my attempts lasted an hour or two, so she was that far past due for a feeding.

She refused me again. I pumped a little first, boob was nice and soft. I'm pretty sure the milk let down because it came out the other boob too, but she still pulled away. I gave her another bottle of pumped milk.

I feel like this is damaging our relationship. I don't want her to see me as the one who shoves a boob down her throat that she doesn't want. I wasn't planning on exclusively pumping, but she may be making that decision for me. I can't figure out what is going on. She even latched perfectly according to the websites I've been looking at.

[~*sierra*~]

the only advice i can give is just to keep on trying, she's new at this too. make sure you are both really comfortable and try to feed her before she starts to cry....like maybe as soon as she starts putting her hands in her mouth or making 'i'm hungry lips' (open& closing mouth repeatedly). not sure if you tried that already or that's what your doing but it makes things more relaxed trying to get her on there when she's not wailing....one thing that helped my SIL to nurse was i gave her a shoulder rub so she was less tense, but that's more on your end and not charlottes.......good luck! try again some more today!

[greeneyes]

If she doesn't nurse for hours after that bottle then she probably didn't need the bottle. The difference between bottle and breast is speed and efficiency. It's much faster and more efficient for her to drink from a bottle so she'll eat a significant amount more than she would need to before her tummy says stop.

The fact that you were able to pump practically nothing from that breast means she nursed it almost dry and therefore got milk. Also, your body knows the difference between baby nursing and you trying to manually express and at this early stage in the game, you may not be able to get yourself to let down on your own. I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the other thread or not, but if she's thrashing around while you're trying to latch her it may be because you're breasts are rock hard and it's difficult for her to latch. If you have a manual pump (about $35 at Target), use it for a minute or two to help soften your breasts and then latch her on.

It sounds like you were both upset which is why you were having let down issues and she was still restless at the breast after you pumped. Does she have any kind of schedule yet, nursing every two hours, etc? If she does, try to get yourself all ready to nurse and relaxed and offer her the breast before she is crying to eat. If she's not on any kind of schedule, watch for signs like fist sucking or just plain restless behavior and try to offer the breast then.

*HUGS* You are doing a great job, mama. The first days of nursing are tough but you've already come so far!

[greeneyes]

Originally Posted by *krista*

Thanks Jessie and Sarah. It is good to know my supply is good. She was really hungry, all of my attempts lasted an hour or two, so she was that far past due for a feeding.

She refused me again. I pumped a little first, boob was nice and soft. I'm pretty sure the milk let down because it came out the other boob too, but she still pulled away. I gave her another bottle of pumped milk.

I feel like this is damaging our relationship. I don't want her to see me as the one who shoves a boob down her throat that she doesn't want. I wasn't planning on exclusively pumping, but she may be making that decision for me. I can't figure out what is going on. She even latched perfectly according to the websites I've been looking at.

Ok, I just saw this post and I'm wondering if you may have a slow let down and that is why she is cranky at the breast, especially since she's had a bottle that gives her milk instantly. Things that can help speed up your let down are skin-to-skin contact and breast compressions. Try stripping Charlotte down to just her diaper and take your top completely off. The sight, smell, and feel of your baby's skin works wonders in speeding up let down. If you're hands are full while trying to get her to nurse, have hubby either do gentle breast compressions for you or have him stabilize the baby while you do the compressions. I know it's hard right now, but relaxing is also the key to good let down. The more tense you are about nursing, the longer let will take and then it just becomes a vicious cycle.

The more she drinks from the bottle, the more impatient she will be at your breast. A bottle requires almost zero effort on the part of the baby and gives instant satisfaction.

[*krista*]

I nurse her on demand or at least every 3 hours. I think you are right in that she is feeding off of my tension. Between the stress of knowing how much pain I am about to experience and of wanting it to work so bad, I'm seriously tense when we breastfeed. She is either crying and thrashing around so much that I have to get DH to hold her hands back so I can get to her, or too sleepy to focus long enough to nurse continuously.

[greeneyes]

Originally Posted by *krista*

I nurse her on demand or at least every 3 hours. I think you are right in that she is feeding off of my tension. Between the stress of knowing how much pain I am about to experience and of wanting it to work so bad, I'm seriously tense when we breastfeed. She is either crying and thrashing around so much that I have to get DH to hold her hands back so I can get to her, or too sleepy to focus long enough to nurse continuously.

Oh! Have you tried swaddling her while you nurse? It keeps all those little baby limbs from flying everywhere like crazy and it's a very comforting position (like being in the womb). Swaddling can help settle her down until she learns to be more patient at the breast.

[~*Bethy*~]

Great advice!! Ive always had a fast and furious let down, so I always was choking my LO's when they would latch on! Hang in there Krista!! Your doing AWESOME!!!

[**Jenn**]

Kate said everything I was going to say. Great advice! You are doing a really great job Krista, just try and relax some. Once you both get this nursing thing down it will be smooth sailing, its the learning curve part that kinda sucks.

You definitely don't have supply issues--2 ounces from one breast at a week old is amazing!!! That's all I get now! I had a slow let down with Liam the first few months and it did require him to be a bit more patient at the breast. He was supplemented unfortunately so to combat him preferring the bottle I always used preemie nipples so he'd really have to work for it. However, if you can at all eliminate bottles even better! She'll just get more impatient at the breast once she's gotten used to the fastness of the bottle. Just keep offering to her and before she starts crying, once babies get to that point its almost impossible to get them calm enough to latch. I still get that with Lila some. If I can't get to her before she starts getting all worked up she won't latch until I've calmed her down some (usually by walking/bouncing her around the room and holding her close and tight).

[*krista*]

Rejected again. I swaddled her and she stayed calm, but just spit out my nipple and then fell asleep.

[~*sierra*~]

keep trying!! dont give up sweetie!

[Chelnae6]

Dont give up Krista. I EP... well I feed her BM thru a bottle ilke 98% of the time mainly b/c of time purposes.

I have super overactive letdowns so there's no way I could BF Lani while engorged. Actually both of us get frustrated a lot when she's on my right breast b/c thats the one that squirts non stop for like 3 minutes durign a letdown.

Also I express a bit before I latch her on and once she's latched on, I do compresses on my boob to encourage and get the milk out.

She eats 3 oz from the bottle... She could nurse on me for 10 minutes and if I offer her the bottle afterwards, she'll eat the whole 3oz although she gotta good amount from my breasts. My LC said that if you dont want nipple confusion you might want to always offer her the breast 1st, let her latch on and suck and then after a while give her the bottle.

[*krista*]

I think she has developed an aversion to my breast. The stupid nurses at the hospital told me to feed her no matter what every three hours and that "I'm the boss". I read just now that if you keep on trying when the baby isn't ready she will develop an aversion. Now I'm worried she has associated that with me.

[greeneyes]

Originally Posted by *krista*

Rejected again. I swaddled her and she stayed calm, but just spit out my nipple and then fell asleep.

Well, that's an improvement over thrashing about and then ending up with a bottle! I really think she got an over-feeding with that two ounce bottle. Even if we pretend for a minute that she didn't get anything from your breast, a baby her age/weight should only be taking in about 1 to 1.5 ounces per feeding. When you factor in what she got from nursing, that's a lot of milk in her teeny, tiny tummy! I'm sure she'll sleep it off and then when she's a little hungrier hopefully nursing will go better. HUGS!!

Originally Posted by *krista*

I think she has developed an aversion to my breast. The stupid nurses at the hospital told me to feed her no matter what every three hours and that "I'm the boss". I read just now that if you keep on trying when the baby isn't ready she will develop an aversion. Now I'm worried she has associated that with me.

Yeah, I don't really agree with that mentality but it doesn't sound like they were that great of LCs anyway. Poor Krista, I'm so sorry this has been so rough for you, sweetie. I still think nursing will be successful for you and Charlotte, you'll get over this hump and it will be smooth sailing. You're doing so great, hon!

[~*sierra*~]

great advice kate!

i just wanna offer some *hugs* & support......perservere hun! and remember no matter what you are charlotte's all time favourite right now

[*krista*]

Thank you. You ladies have been great support through this. I am going to keep at it.

I was trying to find info on how much pumped milk to feed her. What I found was 25 oz a day. If she eats at least every 3 hours, that's about 3 oz a feeding which is what I gave her last time. Is that too much?

[szczepanski]

i dont believe the aversion thing, bc i was told to nurse every 2-3 hours and he never refused me. imo, the bottle will make things more complicated.

i learned if you arent relaxed, your milk will not let down. so wqhen she is thrashing, take dep breathes and close your eyes to relax.

it is so overwhelming at first and it sucks, the first week is awful and then it sucks for 6 weeks then it is amazing.

try to remember you are both learning. swaddle her up so you dont feel like she is an octopus and try to latch. when she fusses, offer your finger to suck on, then try again. hang in there momma you are so amazing and its so worth it!!! nak

[ShannonMVT]

I can tell you are feeling stressed about this Krista but I just want you to know that you are doing great! Lots of moms have bumps in the road in these early days of nursing. I just wanted to mention what Kate said about a slow let down and say that I think I had that as well. It got very frustrating but it did get better over time. Matthew would drinks TONS of milk from a bottle, way more than he'd take at the breast. Like I'd get upset with Dh because he would give Matthew a bottle to let me sleep and he'd use up what I'd pump from like 2-3 pumpings just for one feeding and there went my "stash".
If your boobs are hard and they soften up after feeding then she IS getting milk. They have videos online somewhere (Jack Newman I think) that show what the baby looks like when they are drinking milk (as opposed to just suckling and not getting milk out at the time). I know after watching those and quite some time I finally got to where I could tell when he was really getting milk. (took awhile though). Also for some reason when he was younger I didn't feel my letdown as much but as he got older I could feel it more so it was easier to see when he was getting milk.

Hang in there girl!