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Help me resist CIO


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  #1  
April 29th, 2009, 04:36 PM
Zoostergirl's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Okay, I'm not really planning to do this, but I sometimes get tempted when ladies in my PR say how beautifully it works for them and now their LOs are sleeping 7-8 hours no prob. I'm just so jealous for the sleep.

So remind me why it's not a good choice.

P.S. I've been tempted to post here multiple times, but always just end up lurking. I'm just not sure I 'belong' (okay now I'm back in high school, lol). I'm a breastfeeding, co-sleeping, carrying my baby around all day mama yet I'm not sure I really can say I subscribe to the tenets of attachment parenting.
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  #2  
April 29th, 2009, 04:45 PM
~Nik*Re~'s Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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There is some CIO going around in my PR as well. If I respond I do it as nicely as I can. The babies in your PR are only 2 months old?? That is way too young to even be thinking about crying it out. They don't know how to soothe themselves yet. If people do decided to do it, it shouldn't even be attempted until around 6 months. Poor babies.

Here's an article against it. Hopefully that will ease your mind a little bit
A Fact-Based Case Against Letting Your Baby "Cry It Out" - Associated Content

Glad you came out of lurkdom. I'm not on here a whole lot but I do know that not everyone here follows everything 100%. We all do what we can. Hope you stay around.
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  #3  
April 29th, 2009, 05:06 PM
Zoostergirl's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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It's sad, but it seems like everyone is waiting for the 3 month mark because that's when their almighty pedi says they can let their babies cry for any length of time. We have several 3 month olds in our PR. And what really gets me is everyone else cheering them on.

I simply state that I, personally, wouldn't do it. However, I did use some CIO with my daughter who is now almost four. She was around a year old at the time. I'm doubtful I'd do it again.
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  #4  
April 29th, 2009, 05:49 PM
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Ok, I will give you my experience. I'm anti-CIO and had an extremely demanding attached baby. Co sleeping was the only way I would get any sleep and my son would not go to sleep unless I nursed him for HOURS. He would go to bed around 2-3am EVERY NIGHT from birth until 6.5months when I decided to do something about it. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to let him CIO but I stuck with my instincts that babies only cry for a reason. I was told by numerous people how all I would have to do is let him CIO and my problems would be gone. I felt very desperate but I stuck by my AP values.

I decided that Lincoln needed a routine. The first week was the hardest. Lincoln's routine is at 7pm he goes for a bath. He plays in the tub for a while and LOVES it. After his bath, we get him in PJs and then we sit in his room with a dim light and read a book. After the book we nurse in the dark, and I let him nurse until he is done completely and pulls off on his own. Then I put him in his crib and rub his belly. He would cry and complain because I wasn't holding him but I talked to him and touched him the WHOLE TIME. I didn't leave the room until he was asleep. It took forever the first time, I think it was about 2.5hrs that I sung to him, rubbed his belly and shushed him. Eventually he fell asleep.

After about a week he was falling asleep in under 3 minutes. Now he's asleep within seconds of hitting his crib. I highly recommend the No-Cry Sleep Solution.

Good luck mama, I know it's rough but hang in there.


I also second that 2 months is WAY too early to CIO, my doctor told me that they don't recommend CIO until 6 months if you're going to do it.
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  #5  
April 29th, 2009, 06:39 PM
Effervescence's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I also reccomend the No Cry Sleep Solution, as well as Dr. Sears' Sleep Book (I got both through my library) A lot of the key information in the Sleep Book can be found on askdrsears.com as can a lot of information about what CIO really does for your baby's brain, and why it SEEMS to work.

Welcome from lurkdome! I love your eldest daughter's name, Analiese. It is what I have always wanted my little girl to be named (if we have one!)
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  #6  
April 29th, 2009, 09:41 PM
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From what I gather CIO doesnt teach a baby as much to STTN as it teaches them that it is pointless to cry out as they wont be heard.
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  #7  
April 29th, 2009, 10:45 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Welcome out of lurkdom! I think sometimes what is hardest is not really so much accepting our baby's/child's behavior as much as learning to adjust our own expectations. There is nothing I have ever read to suggest a child that age should be able to go that long without interaction or feeding, etc. Some children can & do, but if they are truly ready then they do so on their own, but I don't think it makes sense to try & make it happen. Children are all unique & they will develop the skills they need to not need momma at 2am eventually. What helped me was to expect waking often & to rearrange whatever I could (and I honestly didn't care if it ticked Dh off, etc) to make sure I napped whenever possible. I asked for help whenever possible. And I didn't view nighttime as a time I "should" get 8 hrs of sleep, but rather a series of naps...and before I would fall back asleep I would whisper to Ds - see you in a little bit...to remind MYSELF too how much I truly did love that little face & getting a chance to interact with him regardless of whether it was 3pm or 3am. When I totally quit trying to make things work the way I wanted them to work & decided to enjoy the ride, I literally lost about half my stress easily & found I was enjoying all things - day AND night - much more than I had before.

He doesn't wake me anymore - not even once a week...and to be honest I never thought I would say this early on, but I miss it. Funny thing is though - even when he was still waking, I KNEW I would miss it - because I was choosing to embrace & enjoy those nighttime cuddles & they became something I looked forward to even.

I am NOT trying to minimize what sleep deprivation is like. I went back to work at 6 weeks with a baby that averaged sleeping 45-90 mins at a time....so often woke at least 5x a night. Before baby, I used to worship sleep practically...and could easily sleep 12 hrs of allowed to.... It is just that I know this time is brief & there WILL be a day when I can sleep all I want & likely I will look back at this time & wish I could revisit it....so why not just enjoy it while I am here? Lots of experts will tell you - that how you feel & function is primarily dependent on the attitude you CHOOSE to have about it. I choose to feel grateful to have the opportunity to get these midnight cuddles & to cherish them while they last. Soon enough he will be a teenager & I will WISH it was this stuff keeping me up at night!

So I don't know if it is helpful or not, but for me adjusting expectations & attitude made ALL the difference in the world not only in my stress level but also in my energy level. I literally got to where I could function fine on less sleep than I used to get in an afternoon nap.
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  #8  
April 29th, 2009, 10:56 PM
ItalySarah's Avatar Proud Attached Mommy
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Welcome to AP! The ladies have already given you great advice. I honestly believe that babies cry for a reason, even if it is just so they can have reassurance that someone is there for them or want to cuddle. Especially at 2 months, they are still adjusting to being out of the womb. It will get easier and they will sttn eventually. Not saying you do, but I do not understand why people expect babies to sleep 8-12 hrs straight. I cant even do that. I wake up to get water or go to the bathroom or whatever. I can put myself back to sleep though, a baby can not.

These sleepless days will pass. Stick with your instincts!!! PM me if you need anything

Welcome to AP! The ladies have already given you great advice. I honestly believe that babies cry for a reason, even if it is just so they can have reassurance that someone is there for them or want to cuddle. Especially at 2 months, they are still adjusting to being out of the womb. It will get easier and they will sttn eventually. Not saying you do, but I do not understand why people expect babies to sleep 8-12 hrs straight. I cant even do that. I wake up to get water or go to the bathroom or whatever. I can put myself back to sleep though, a baby can not.

These sleepless days will pass. Stick with your instincts!!! PM me if you need anything
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  #9  
April 30th, 2009, 02:36 AM
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There is a common misunderstanding among parents that cry-it-out methods teach your baby how to self-soothe and to be independent sleepers, but there is actually no proof for this. CIO will almost always appear to work because what your baby actually learns is that crying at night gets no response, so they don't cry out. The levels of cortisol (a hormone associated with stress) in a baby's brain that has been sleep trained with CIO has been measured to be of a similar level to a baby that is crying (source: Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland).

Modern parents have been lead to believe that a baby who needs to be nurtured to sleep rather than simply put down has a sleeping problem. Believing your baby has a problem that needs to be corrected is a big motivation for mothers to ignore their instincts and resort to techniques like controlled crying. Some mothers are scared into sleep training because they really believe that if they don't "fix it", their child will grow up with sleep problems that will be with them all their life. Again this is not true. Babies do learn to self-soothe, but they do it in their own time, and this varies drastically from child to child. Some babies manage it by a few weeks or months old, some don't manage it until they are toddlers or even pre-schoolers.

Here are a couple of good links:

Effects of controlled crying

Reasons not to sleep train

If you want further help in resisting CIO, then I recommend the book The Science of Parenting by Margot Sunderland.
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  #10  
April 30th, 2009, 02:54 AM
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Oh & just wanted to add, if you do choose to resist CIO, then you will probably hear a lot of "but I did it for my baby and he/she is fine" or "I was left to CIO and I am OK" etc etc. But IMO, for every story of CIO success, there is another one of CIO failure: my nan frequently speaks of how she left my dad and his sister in the pram in the garage to "exercise their lungs" at nap-time. My dad suffers from severe insomnia and stress-related illnesses to this day, while my aunt is an alcoholic.

Anecdotal evidence is often very compelling, but at the end of the day it is just a story, and usually sampling one person. I try and ignore it (those both in favour of and against CIO). IMO, anecdotal evidence is like zooming in on a very small part of something and it rarely tells you the story of the bigger picture.
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  #11  
April 30th, 2009, 05:52 AM
broxi3781's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Beck, great post you put it better then I could.
Zoostergirl - When Billy was little and we had all sorts of sleep problems, DH brought up CIO becasue his friends had done it and worked great for them. After awhile we went to a BBQ at these friends house, after 2 years of CIO the baby still screamed for hours, but after enough hours of screaming it generally worked in that eventually the child fell asleep. Most children will give up, but not all, and at the end of the day, i dont want my child to learn not to cry because his tears will go unanswered.
I cant reccomend teh Margot Sunderland book enough, its brilliant, also Dr sears, and finally the continuum concept and Our Babies Ourselves by Meredith Small for a bit historical, cultural perspective.
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  #12  
April 30th, 2009, 07:43 AM
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There is a lot of CIO going on in my PR also. I have known from the get go that it wasn't something I could do. Oliver is 7 months old and still wakes every 2-3 hours during the night. I go with the flow. Most of the time we are both only half a wake for nursing. I know I will miss this time once he does sleep all night long and doesn't need me. Some nights/days can be hard because I work FT but it's so worth it. I don't think it's very normal for a young child to sleep all night long without waking. I know I would still wake up 1-2 times per night just to use the bathroom!
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  #13  
April 30th, 2009, 08:22 AM
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its so sad people are leaving these babies to cry! at 2 months!
aside from all the psychological effects, using CIO causes body temperature to rise which is a risk for SIDS. These people could be risking their babies lives!
a well sleeping baby isn't necesserely a good thing, babies wake in the night for a reason, its how they were designed, so if something were to go wrong they'd wake, deep sleepers are at more risk from SIDS because they won't wake.
I honestly don't know how people do it, i wake up all through the night to check maica is okay if she doesn't wake me!!
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  #14  
April 30th, 2009, 09:24 AM
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Thanks guys! Whenever I feel jealous of the mommies getting tons of sleep, I'll just come here and re-read this thread.

I know that babies know what they need way more than their caregivers do.

The only thing sadder than a baby crying is the baby who doesn't bother.
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  #15  
April 30th, 2009, 11:04 AM
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Here is the simpliest logic I can think of for NO CIO and basically anything in life.

If it feels bad to do it...you should probably not be doing it!

If you have to turn down the monitor, go out of the room, turn up the TV, etc. so you don't hear your child's crying b/c it upsets you....it is a pretty good indication that you are doing something that is wrong.

(this is the logic we use to teach our 4 year old about always doing the right thing and telling the truth :b But it works with grown ups too )
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  #16  
April 30th, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Hang in there CIO goes against everything motherhood is supposed to be. There is nothing wrong with wanting more sleep or feeling envious at times at other moms who *seem* to have it better, but by you choosing to respond when she needs you you are building a life long bond of trust and love!
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  #17  
April 30th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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I agree! I think that's a motto most of us follow for all aspects of our parenting, if it doesn't feel right, then it probably isn't. Go with your gut.

I was very hesitent to let Abby CIO, and when I did, I hated it. It bothered me and despite the promise that "It will work" I just couldn't do it. I stopped and never looked back and I will not try it with Anna. I read an article recently that talked about how babies crying for long periods of time, unattended, could result in brain damage: Can leaving a baby to 'cry it out' cause brain damage? ? The Register

Quote:
So I don't know if it is helpful or not, but for me adjusting expectations & attitude made ALL the difference in the world not only in my stress level but also in my energy level. I literally got to where I could function fine on less sleep than I used to get in an afternoon nap.
I completely agree with this! I have seen a lot of parents in my PR complain about how often thier baby is eating and wanting to start solids because of that. I tell them the same thing, don't adjust your baby to meet your expectations, adjust your expectations to meet your baby. Most babies don't eat every 4 hours or sleep 8 hours a night at 2 months old. There is no "standard" for every baby and I think we all know that, it's just hard to accept that especially when our baby is the one waking every 2 hours or eating every 30 minutes.

I think you would fit in perfectly here! I had a hard time coming here at first too, some aspects of my parenting didn't seem to "fit in" but I've learned a lot from some of the topics on here and it's really been beneficial. I've changed my discipline style and I'm much happier with it and I feel she responds a lot better. Hang around, you might fit into AP a little more than you would think
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  #18  
April 30th, 2009, 01:07 PM
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I had the worse sleeper in the world when I gave birth to our daughter Anastasia. From birth she never slept, even right after being born she was awake and alert for 7 straight hours (nursing too mind you!). From that day on she slept (and I'm not exaggerating) in 10 minute increments for the first 6 months of her life at which point it lengthened to 45 minute increments. I stuck by my "I'm not going to CIO" attitude. It took TWO YEARS for her to sleep through the night, but it did happen! She now not only sleeps through the night but she sleeps in her own bed for part of it, and goes down by herself!
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  #19  
April 30th, 2009, 02:58 PM
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I am in the same PR.....I am having a hard time even going into our PR lately. That thread and others recently have had me biting my tounge A LOT lately. Our PR is soooo drama free I love it...but it hurts to see posts about CIO especially from good people I know they love their babies...I just WISH they would research things before they do them and last thing I want to do is post a bunch of links as to why not to do it. It's sad really.
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  #20  
April 30th, 2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beck12 View Post
Welcome out of lurkdom! I think sometimes what is hardest is not really so much accepting our baby's/child's behavior as much as learning to adjust our own expectations. There is nothing I have ever read to suggest a child that age should be able to go that long without interaction or feeding, etc. Some children can & do, but if they are truly ready then they do so on their own, but I don't think it makes sense to try & make it happen. Children are all unique & they will develop the skills they need to not need momma at 2am eventually. What helped me was to expect waking often & to rearrange whatever I could (and I honestly didn't care if it ticked Dh off, etc) to make sure I napped whenever possible. I asked for help whenever possible. And I didn't view nighttime as a time I "should" get 8 hrs of sleep, but rather a series of naps...and before I would fall back asleep I would whisper to Ds - see you in a little bit...to remind MYSELF too how much I truly did love that little face & getting a chance to interact with him regardless of whether it was 3pm or 3am. When I totally quit trying to make things work the way I wanted them to work & decided to enjoy the ride, I literally lost about half my stress easily & found I was enjoying all things - day AND night - much more than I had before.

He doesn't wake me anymore - not even once a week...and to be honest I never thought I would say this early on, but I miss it. Funny thing is though - even when he was still waking, I KNEW I would miss it - because I was choosing to embrace & enjoy those nighttime cuddles & they became something I looked forward to even.

I am NOT trying to minimize what sleep deprivation is like. I went back to work at 6 weeks with a baby that averaged sleeping 45-90 mins at a time....so often woke at least 5x a night. Before baby, I used to worship sleep practically...and could easily sleep 12 hrs of allowed to.... It is just that I know this time is brief & there WILL be a day when I can sleep all I want & likely I will look back at this time & wish I could revisit it....so why not just enjoy it while I am here? Lots of experts will tell you - that how you feel & function is primarily dependent on the attitude you CHOOSE to have about it. I choose to feel grateful to have the opportunity to get these midnight cuddles & to cherish them while they last. Soon enough he will be a teenager & I will WISH it was this stuff keeping me up at night!

So I don't know if it is helpful or not, but for me adjusting expectations & attitude made ALL the difference in the world not only in my stress level but also in my energy level. I literally got to where I could function fine on less sleep than I used to get in an afternoon nap.
Beck, I think your post is great! My LO has been STTN for the past month or so, and I miss waking up with her too. I enjoyed spending time together just the two of us while the rest of the world slept. Sometime I wake up during the night and I have to watch her sleep for awhile because I just miss her so much!
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