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  #1  
May 9th, 2009, 03:16 PM
KatiesGirls
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What is it? Is it like the Ferber method or no cry sleep solution? Have you ever tried it?

If you have-

Likes?

Dislikes?
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  #2  
May 9th, 2009, 03:34 PM
KimberlyD0
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I don't want to get too deep into it because it always ends here in me feeling isolated and like I am somehow a sub par parent who doesn't do things the "right way"

Baby Whisperering is NOTHING like the feber method. The main message behind it is to listen and respond appropriatly to your childs need. Its about learning to listen and respect your child as a small person, not as something that is trying to "control you"

Some of the methods work well for some children, some don't. Taken literally it wouldn't work for all children.

I have used it for almost 3 years as a guide and a stepping stone into understanding my childs cues. Not something that came easily to me. There are tips for helping sleep technics which can be seen by some as "sleep training" but its not how I view them. Its perfict for parents like myself who trully do not believe in CIO/CC, but who also can't/don't co-sleep or hold a child 24/7, or rock or feed their child to sleep. Since I am a working mom its importent that my child be able to "self comfort" as in a daycare setting which I have no choice but to use, she wont be held all the time. They can't. They also can't let a child feed to sleep, even with bottles. There are safty mesures in effect that prevent babies from being put down with a bottle, and some children don't fall asleep in someones arms. The also can't devot hours a day to rocking her to sleep.

So with baby whisperering I am able to guide and comfort her through the stages of sleep so she can be better able to comfort/settle herself. I have done this, with great success with both of my children.

Basically baby whisperer is something that can be effective for many parents, but its not for everyone.

Please try not to trash it to bits because its very hurtfull. I'm fine with people disagreeing, but to insinuate that it somehow makes parents bad, or that it means they don't listen or respect their children, is very insulting.

I know no one has right now, but thats always how these threads end. I just ask that you respect that, while it may not be what you see as "right" doesn't mean its "wrong"

That was a little longer then I ment it to be.. I'll go away now...
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  #3  
May 9th, 2009, 04:10 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranksGirls View Post
What is it? Is it like the Ferber method or no cry sleep solution? Have you ever tried it?

If you have-

Likes?

Dislikes?
It's more like a no-cry sleep solution and I had full intentions of using it until dd got here. (It was very obvious to me that it wouldn't work for her.)

Likes: It does promote kindness and no-crying

Dislikes: it doesn't promote co-sleeping, breastfeeding and overall AP.
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  #4  
May 9th, 2009, 09:01 PM
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HMmm I have never even heard of it.... but now I am curious about something that seems to generate such a response on a board about AP.....

I whisper to Matthew all the time to get him calm when he is screaming mad... and whisper to him all the time to tell him things that are our "secrets".... like he is the best baby in the whole wide world and I have been waiting all my life to kiss those chubby cheeks.... but I am sure that isn't the kind of whispering you are referring to
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On 1/31/12 at exactly 16 weeks pregnant Noah came too soon. He was our 7th loss
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  #5  
May 9th, 2009, 10:39 PM
KatiesGirls
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No, I saw it in one of the girls blinkies and I thought it would be an interesting topic
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  #6  
May 10th, 2009, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
I don't want to get too deep into it because it always ends here in me feeling isolated and like I am somehow a sub par parent who doesn't do things the "right way"

Baby Whisperering is NOTHING like the feber method. The main message behind it is to listen and respond appropriatly to your childs need. Its about learning to listen and respect your child as a small person, not as something that is trying to "control you"

Some of the methods work well for some children, some don't. Taken literally it wouldn't work for all children.

I have used it for almost 3 years as a guide and a stepping stone into understanding my childs cues. Not something that came easily to me. There are tips for helping sleep technics which can be seen by some as "sleep training" but its not how I view them. Its perfict for parents like myself who trully do not believe in CIO/CC, but who also can't/don't co-sleep or hold a child 24/7, or rock or feed their child to sleep. Since I am a working mom its importent that my child be able to "self comfort" as in a daycare setting which I have no choice but to use, she wont be held all the time. They can't. They also can't let a child feed to sleep, even with bottles. There are safty mesures in effect that prevent babies from being put down with a bottle, and some children don't fall asleep in someones arms. The also can't devot hours a day to rocking her to sleep.

So with baby whisperering I am able to guide and comfort her through the stages of sleep so she can be better able to comfort/settle herself. I have done this, with great success with both of my children.

Basically baby whisperer is something that can be effective for many parents, but its not for everyone.

Please try not to trash it to bits because its very hurtfull. I'm fine with people disagreeing, but to insinuate that it somehow makes parents bad, or that it means they don't listen or respect their children, is very insulting.

I know no one has right now, but thats always how these threads end. I just ask that you respect that, while it may not be what you see as "right" doesn't mean its "wrong"

That was a little longer then I ment it to be.. I'll go away now...
Based on what you just wrote it sounds like you made the information in the book work greatly for you. I may hate the book but that is the book I hate, I dont think anything at all negatively of you although you used the book and I wish that when people attack the book that you wouldnt feel personally attacked. The way I see it you got something helpful from it and that is great. Two people may read the same book and understand it completely differently. I think that a big thing for me was that I didnt like the style it was written in and as such I was angry reading it (but still curious to complete t) and probably focused on the negatives more.
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  #7  
May 10th, 2009, 07:38 AM
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From what I have read about it, I really dislike the idea, and find many of her statements completely insulting as well as being poorly informed such as the idea that feeding on demand makes babies demanding!

kellymom.com :: Review: Secrets of the Baby Whisperer

That said I have read many books with some ideas I disagree with and taken other bits i did like. I used to think Terry Brazelton was very good until I read a silly comment of his that 6 month old babies cried to manipulate their parents! that isnt to say there isnt any good general baby care info in his books.I also have to admit I loved Dr Phil's Family's First, even though he is blatantly anti co sleeping - I just ignore those parts. So please do not take my criticisms of this author as in anyway meant towards anyone using her book, but I do think it could be harmful reading for first time parents.
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  #8  
May 10th, 2009, 10:59 AM
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Thanks for that link Broxi. This really struck me:
Quote:
Sorting fact from opinion from flat-out fiction in this book's nearly 300 pages is something no new parent should have to do.
Parts of the book really are fiction. I remember feeling disbelief as I read through it at some of the stuff that she wrote (for those who havent read it she tells lot of little stories of how she sweeps in and helps troubled parents). Then I checked the intro and she did indeed say that she made up some of that. Just something like from the sleep section where she says that she came and spent the night at some people's house and picked up/put down their baby 158 times or some equally ridiculously high random number (it was triple digit number).
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  #9  
May 10th, 2009, 01:42 PM
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The breastfeeding information is simply dangerous, and trying to follow her scheduling could result in malnutrition or being unable to breast feed, but I personally do not like the pick up put down routine either and were strongly reccomend reading Margot Sunderlands book and a couple by Dr sears before reading this book. I also feel its still trying to teach you a method, instead of going with your instincts to just go in and care for the child. I am reading Bowlby now and so impressed that a man in the 1950's was writing that as long as a mother just acted on her natural tenderness and care for the child not too much would go wrong. He was also very pro breastfeeding. He also felt failing to respond to an infants cries did serious harm, definately ahead of his time in my book.
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  #10  
May 10th, 2009, 02:17 PM
KimberlyD0
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Originally Posted by broxi3781 View Post
The breastfeeding information is simply dangerous, and trying to follow her scheduling could result in malnutrition or being unable to breast feed, but I personally do not like the pick up put down routine either and were strongly reccomend reading Margot Sunderlands book and a couple by Dr sears before reading this book. I also feel its still trying to teach you a method, instead of going with your instincts to just go in and care for the child. I am reading Bowlby now and so impressed that a man in the 1950's was writing that as long as a mother just acted on her natural tenderness and care for the child not too much would go wrong. He was also very pro breastfeeding. He also felt failing to respond to an infants cries did serious harm, definately ahead of his time in my book.

I think your confusing Baby Whisperer with Baby Wise.

Baby Wise has been known to lead to malnutrition and failure to BF on many occasions because its about a parent let schedual.

Baby Whisperer uses a routine, not a schedual. The idea is not to only feed ever so and so hours, but to feed when your baby is hungry while using the routine as a guide only. No child is the same therefor not all will be on a 2,3, or 4 hour routine. The idea of braking the link between feeding and sleeping is there, but its not the be all and end all of baby whisperer. Tracy did write the books a while ago, and she did die in Nov of 04, so she never really got the chance to update or change her information. She never once intended for any child to be harmed in any way. Yes she has bad info on Breastfeeding, a lot of that though is from her age and WHEN she worked with children. Her mothods wont work for every child, and for some it takes more time then other, and some fall right into it.

There are many many moms who use Baby Whisperer and successfully BF. They were very big help with me when I was BF DD#2. They helped me a lot. Some of these moms even do full turm BF, I believe one mom there just celebrated 4 years, some even co-sleep.

If your brave check out the sight sometime and you'll see that most people there are actually AP. It is after all a form of AP, something I have learned a lot in the last year or so.

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  #11  
May 10th, 2009, 02:58 PM
KatiesGirls
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"My feeling is that when mothers prolong nursing, it's almost always for them, not for the baby." She follows this statement with an anecdote about a mother who was (gasp!) still nursing her two-and-a-half-year-old. Because her husband was not supportive, she was doing so behind his back - obviously not a good situation. To make a long story short, the mother came to her senses, weaned the baby, and "was automatically a better parent, a better wife, and a stronger human being."



This statement is so offensive on so many levels I don't even know where to begin! I'm glad some people are able to get some good out of this book, but I am really bothered by the level of ignorance to BF and AP in general.
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  #12  
May 10th, 2009, 03:39 PM
KimberlyD0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FranksGirls View Post
"My feeling is that when mothers prolong nursing, it's almost always for them, not for the baby." She follows this statement with an anecdote about a mother who was (gasp!) still nursing her two-and-a-half-year-old. Because her husband was not supportive, she was doing so behind his back - obviously not a good situation. To make a long story short, the mother came to her senses, weaned the baby, and "was automatically a better parent, a better wife, and a stronger human being."



This statement is so offensive on so many levels I don't even know where to begin! I'm glad some people are able to get some good out of this book, but I am really bothered by the level of ignorance to BF and AP in general.

I agree the statement is incorrect. However its also reflective of her time, and age, and experience. Rememeber she had 22 years of experience, BUT it was also 22 years ago, or more that she learned everything. Many of her generation think the same thing simply from what they were taught.

Also the situation you mention wasn't so simple. It was more the family dinamic and the dishonesty that she wished to changed. If you have a situation where a 2.5 year old is nursing and both parents are on bored and supportive then its a great situation. However should you have a situation where there is no support and BF is undermining the family dinamic, its not healthy. Its a bad situation because of the family dinamics, not because of the BF.

Her information is from a different time and as I said reflective of that.

She never said the mother was a better parent because she stopped BF. She said it was a better situation because the dishonesty was gone. At the very least that is unhealthy and yes shouldn't be in a family.

The books are not Anti-Breastfeeding because she dislikes BF, but they can come across as such because of the miss-information that she had. She often would say "start as you mean to go on" which is a great way to look at things. If you enjoy and wish to continue BF, bed-shareing or anything else then that wonderful, what she was trying to stop, which I agree with 100% is resorting to CIO/CC because you suddenly decide one day your child is too old for something. That babies and children should be respected and listened to from day one.

Something I think is reflective of AP.
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  #13  
May 10th, 2009, 09:11 PM
ItalySarah's Avatar Proud Attached Mommy
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I personally did not find the book to be useful for me and my family.
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  #14  
May 11th, 2009, 07:46 AM
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Hi Kimberely,
First off, just want to make sure we stay friends. I recognise you have picked the good parts of this book and probabley ignored the bad parts, just as I did with dr phil, so I certainly dont mean anything against you.
I've been on her site, and she does describe AP types, Dr sears, La leche league as extreme. I believe Baby Whisphering is meant to be middle of the road, not AP or TP, which is ok, that covers most parents.
I think you really have to take into consideration her background as a British maternity nurse. Some how an English childcare expert stirs up vision of polite and gentle children and Mary Poppins I think. Please keep in mind breastfeeding became almost non existant in Britain, and has only regained ground in places like in London, due in large part to the influx of immigrants, most of home breast feed and several Asian or African maternity nurses. Northern Ireland has more of your old school proper maternity nurses or midwives as we call them. It also has one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the world and I would credit a great deal of this to maternity nurses. Yes they now pressure women to breastfeed for 2 days so they will be able to tick the box, breastfeeding initiated and get their bonuses but they also make it as difficult as possible, and specially trained midwives, paid by the govt to encourage breastfeeding encourage weaning at 2 weeks!
While we have some really incredible community midwives, I have found many of the hospital midwives in charge of the babies to be the most anal retentive, paperwork and routine obsessed, wanna be Nero's I have ever had the misfortune to meet. Most people here advise you just to lie to them and say whatever they want to hear so as not to infringe upon their god complexes. I can accept they have so much pressure on them to fill in charts and meet quotas, but it is very very clear that the chart is of far more importnace then infant well being.
Coming from such a background, I would say her ideas are actually very liberal, but I have yet to see anything she has written backed by any scientific research or anything at all other then opinion, it just the fact thatshe was a "British maternity nurse" distinguishes her from any other parent.
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  #15  
May 11th, 2009, 09:20 AM
broxi3781's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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OMG! I read some of the posts on the baby whisperer forum. You are right you do need to be brave;
Here is just an average one:
How far we could let our LO cry or scream ?
Sorry but to me that is just CIO with a parent there, they dont ever really respond to baby cries and the poor child eventually cries to exhaustion. I have read some articles where it is thought this may do every bit as much harm as traditional CIO because while the child is not abandoned they do learn the parent is unable or unwilling to respond to their needs.
Throughout human history and still in most of the world, human babies have nursed to sleep and slept beside someone its only ideas of trying to force babies into more conveniant schedules that have changed this. I felt awful seeing all those mothers encouraged to supress their instincts. MAternal instincts are there for a reason!
I'll the comments on AP I saw refered to accidental parenting, there are some good breastfeeding posts too, but in general, I would definately feel the site is very un ap.
Sorry if I am rambling, i do accept others see this differently, but I truly hate these "experts" and the grief they cause many young mothers. Accidental parenting my ....donkeys rear end!
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  #16  
May 11th, 2009, 09:27 AM
broxi3781's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Katie- that is the general attitude here toward extended breastfeeding,even among most health care proffessionals, unless they are foreign. Breastfeeding a 6 mo old even is consider distatsteful and "unnatural". The Unnatural bit always gets me.
How is bottle feeding more natural then breastfeeding? But the way its said is as if breastfeeding is really dirty and disgusting. Tracey Hogg's attitude towards breastfeeding is really very pro breastfeeding considering her background. Breastfeeding a 2 1/2 year old would be thought to border on child abuse here, which is why i dont advertise the fact that my children bf until 3.
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  #17  
May 11th, 2009, 11:03 AM
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Reading that post on that board made me cry....Thinking of such a young child crying so hard to that point. How could a mom sit and watch that????? I can't even think about it without bawling.

I do not want to read that book because I know it will not have any helpful information for me. and it would just make me angry to read it.
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  #18  
May 11th, 2009, 02:28 PM
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For some babies, being patted on the tummy or bottom might be all the comfort they need to fall asleep peacefully. If you can get your baby to sleep without nursing or feeding or co-sleeping, then a lot of the advice in the book is sound. Feeding to sleep probably does result in more night-wakings, and I think there is evidence to back that up.

That said, I personally would (and do) nurse to sleep if the baby needs it to fall asleep, and would scream and cry otherwise. I don't believe in denying it just to avoid the accidental parenting trap. I've read the book, and I didn't get the impression that Tracy is really advocating letting your baby cry while you pick-up/put-down or pat-pat/shh-shh either. The problem is that although she walks the middle-ground, if her techniques (or an adaptation of her techniques) don't work, you're left with CIO/CC (which she doesn't condone) or co-sleeping and feeding to sleep (which she also advises against). So if you're a reader taking her word and advice very literally, you're most likely to try persevering with her methods, even if that means an upset baby.

I think the Baby Whisperer is a book worth reading when you're pregnant, as long as you know to take it with a big pinch of salt. Try the methods, but if they don't work, just throw it out and follow your instincts instead. It's not a book I would recommend if you've already got a two, three month old baby and believe you are having sleep problems.
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  #19  
May 11th, 2009, 04:43 PM
Tofu Bacon
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Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
I think your confusing Baby Whisperer with Baby Wise.

Baby Wise has been known to lead to malnutrition and failure to BF on many occasions because its about a parent let schedual.

Baby Whisperer uses a routine, not a schedual. The idea is not to only feed ever so and so hours, but to feed when your baby is hungry while using the routine as a guide only.
Babywise propenents (and the author) claim to be using a flexible routine as well. To me, (from reading the books, as well as lurking on their boards) there is little difference in practice between the two methods. I don't necessarily think either method is "bad" but they both present the same danger of falling into the baby-training trap.

Nevertheless, its not the "flexible schedule" that troubles me (as long as baby isn't being made to "go longer" between feedings or CIO I think its fine), but the lack of support for breastfeeding and co-sleeping totally puts a bee in my bonnet. I don't like personal opinions being masqueraded as professional advice.

Quote:
I agree the statement is incorrect. However its also reflective of her time, and age, and experience. Rememeber she had 22 years of experience, BUT it was also 22 years ago, or more that she learned everything. Many of her generation think the same thing simply from what they were taught.
But here we are, in 2009, with the same out-dated opinion-based advice being followed by another generation of mothers.

Last edited by Tofu Bacon; May 11th, 2009 at 04:52 PM.
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  #20  
May 11th, 2009, 05:11 PM
KatiesGirls
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Originally Posted by Sweater Cannons View Post
Babywise propenents (and the author) claim to be using a flexible routine as well. To me, (from reading the books, as well as lurking on their boards) there is little difference in practice between the two methods. I don't necessarily think either method is "bad" but they both present the same danger of falling into the baby-training trap.

Nevertheless, its not the "flexible schedule" that troubles me (as long as baby isn't being made to "go longer" between feedings or CIO I think its fine), but the lack of support for breastfeeding and co-sleeping totally puts a bee in my bonnet. I don't like personal opinions being masqueraded as professional advice.


But here we are, in 2009, with the same out-dated opinion-based advice being followed by another generation of mothers.
That's what I can't get over. Why is it still so mainstream to smother out maternal instincts if the advice is seen as 'outdated'?
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