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Should you be informed? Is there a danger?


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  • 1 Post By shen7

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  #1  
April 5th, 2013, 07:09 AM
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This is not in any way meant to stir up the vax debate, but a situation came up on my facebook, that got me thinking.

I know lots of you don't vax, lots do, and some are in the middle...SOOOO:

Do you or would you expect, or like to be informed if a child your kids are 'exposed' to is vaccinated or not?

For example if your child is not vaccinated, does it make any difference if the child they are playing with is?

What about vice versa? is one more important?

To me it shouldn't matter if your kid is vaccinated, why be concerned if another child isn't... if you feel confident in the vaccine, wouldn't that eliminate any risk? And if your child is not vaccinated, is there really any risk playing with children who are? Why would you need to know what another family chooses to do regarding this issue?
I kind of felt like I may have been missing something because I don't understand why it was an issue that came up between a couple of moms I know.
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  #2  
April 5th, 2013, 07:44 AM
sareymac's Avatar Mommy to Gary & Adalyn
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i agree it does not matter to me what someone else chooses to do. It certainly wouldn't be a basis on which i decide if the children could play together. It's kind of (in my opinion) a silly argument.
Does not matter.
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  #3  
April 5th, 2013, 07:50 AM
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It isn't an issue to me at all. I just assume that some kids will be vaxed and some kids won't...doesn't really matter as far as who we interact with or play with. No one has ever asked me if our kids have their shots or not, nor have I ever asked anyone else that question.

(We delay and selectively vax.)
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  #4  
April 5th, 2013, 09:06 AM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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The only time anyone has to worry about their child being exposed to vaccines is if they believe vaccines work but their child has an autoimmune disorder . . . in which case, to be honest, they should be worried about the germs kids carry whether vaccinated or not. So, in the end, I can't follow the logic of why anyone would care, but I respect there may be some logical situations where a parents might need to know. Generally, though, I don't see how that knowledge is necessary if you believe vaccines work. THAT SAID, some people who vaccinate realize that vaccines aren't that effective and their concern is with "herd immunity" and that can effect the way view things. Don't get me started on the idea of herd immunity, though...

What is odd is that people want to be informed if another child is not vaccinated, yet don't want to be informed of the potential risks of vaccines. I can't understand the pick-and-choose on being informed. Either you want to be an informed parent or your don't. How can you only care about being informed about certain things? But maybe that's just me. For example, they have proven a link between certain genetic chromosomes and vaccine reactions. These chromosomes can be identified with a simple blood test. Yet . . . they don't do this blood test until AFTER a child has a reaction to a vaccine. Wouldn't a parent who cares about being informed want to have this blood test done before vaccinating, or wouldn't they at least want to know about this connection and determine if they want to have the blood test done first?

Personally, it concerns me that it doesn't work that way, and speaks a lot in support toward the argument that vaccines aren't as much about health as they claim to be.
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  #5  
April 5th, 2013, 04:53 PM
ohnicole's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alittlelost View Post
Personally, it concerns me that it doesn't work that way, and speaks a lot in support toward the argument that vaccines aren't as much about health as they claim to be.
I think that in the government's view, vaccines are about health, just on a national, societal level. Which is valid for the government, but it's not how a pediatrician should be viewing individual patients. I think that with all that remains about the immune system and the rest of the body, it would be ridiculous to claim that there are no children who will have bad reactions to vaccines. So why is it so taboo in the medical community to try to prevent those complications?

But anyway, I don't really think it should matter if other children are vaccinated or not. The only time I have asked another parent if their children were vaccinated was when I was pregnant and found out I had no immunity to rubella. But that is a weird situation. I would also want to be aware if I was in a community where there was a low rate of vaccination, because there would be a real risk for an increase in certain infections. But that would only influence my decisions on vaccinating my children, not who my kids could interact with.
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  #6  
April 5th, 2013, 05:37 PM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Yes, good point. The government is concerned with herd immunity. It just bothers me that they KNOW there is an increased risk in vaccine reaction with children that carry this chromosome that can be found using a simple blood test, and yet they don't tell parents this, don't give them the option to get that blood test first, or to make an informed decision based on the results. But then I guess a few less people would get vaccines/vaccinated on schedule, and they can't have that! They rather risk those reactions they could have prevented if at least they get that vaccine in first. Kind of sad to me. All that said, my son had a vaccine reaction without having that chromosome, so it wouldn't have changed anything for us personally.
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  #7  
April 6th, 2013, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alittlelost View Post
Yes, good point. The government is concerned with herd immunity. It just bothers me that they KNOW there is an increased risk in vaccine reaction with children that carry this chromosome that can be found using a simple blood test, and yet they don't tell parents this, don't give them the option to get that blood test first, or to make an informed decision based on the results. But then I guess a few less people would get vaccines/vaccinated on schedule, and they can't have that! They rather risk those reactions they could have prevented if at least they get that vaccine in first. Kind of sad to me. All that said, my son had a vaccine reaction without having that chromosome, so it wouldn't have changed anything for us personally.
Do you mean a gene or genetic marker? Chromosomes are pretty big... and in general, predictive genetics is not so good for most things. They used to think they could find "the gene that causes X" and it would be a done deal, but it turns out to be wayyyy more complicated than that, epigenetics and all that. So perhaps although there is some compelling association for vaccine reactions with that marker, the evidence just isn't there to use it for predictive purposes. Yet, anyway!

They do constantly work on making vaccines safer with fewer reactions, while still effective, and in fact that is a big reason behind the recent whooping cough outbreaks, the newer safer version is weaker and wears off much faster than anticipated.

Anyhoo, to answer the OP I never ever ever bring up any vaccine topic and I try to avoid talking about it. I live in an undervaccinated community and a lot of it is due to anti-mainstream-medicine sentiment and parents choosing not to vaccinate. We fully vaccinate as our pediatrician recommends (he broke up M's 6 month shots after she had a brief night fever after her 4 month shots). I am pro vax and believe the anti-vax movement is anti-science and illogical. But I do not share those views in general unless directly asked. I assume that maybe half of the LOs at any given playgroup, playground, toddler class, etc are fully vaccinated on schedule and the rest are either selective/delayed or fully unvaccinated. M's preschool does not require vaccination at all to attend and they have had outbreaks of vaccine-preventable RSV recently. I just shrug and let it go. There is really nothing to be gained by being a b!tch about it. Other moms are doing what they think is best and even if I think it's foolish for most of them (i.e. if they have no serious allergies or family history of serious vaccine reactions), it's not like me telling them that is going to change anything they are doing, it's just going to make them think I'm some kind of corporate nazi or something.
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  #8  
April 6th, 2013, 09:48 AM
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Thanks for all your input ladies!

I thought it was a pretty silly argument, but then I wondered if there was some key point that I was missing... where it might be important to know if other children were vaxed or not....

Sounds like you just have to be confident in the decision you've made and live with the possible consequences, good or bad either way!
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  #9  
April 6th, 2013, 11:20 AM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shen7 View Post
Do you mean a gene or genetic marker? Chromosomes are pretty big... and in general, predictive genetics is not so good for most things. They used to think they could find "the gene that causes X" and it would be a done deal, but it turns out to be wayyyy more complicated than that, epigenetics and all that. So perhaps although there is some compelling association for vaccine reactions with that marker, the evidence just isn't there to use it for predictive purposes. Yet, anyway!

They do constantly work on making vaccines safer with fewer reactions, while still effective, and in fact that is a big reason behind the recent whooping cough outbreaks, the newer safer version is weaker and wears off much faster than anticipated.

Anyhoo, to answer the OP I never ever ever bring up any vaccine topic and I try to avoid talking about it. I live in an undervaccinated community and a lot of it is due to anti-mainstream-medicine sentiment and parents choosing not to vaccinate. We fully vaccinate as our pediatrician recommends (he broke up M's 6 month shots after she had a brief night fever after her 4 month shots). I am pro vax and believe the anti-vax movement is anti-science and illogical. But I do not share those views in general unless directly asked. I assume that maybe half of the LOs at any given playgroup, playground, toddler class, etc are fully vaccinated on schedule and the rest are either selective/delayed or fully unvaccinated. M's preschool does not require vaccination at all to attend and they have had outbreaks of vaccine-preventable RSV recently. I just shrug and let it go. There is really nothing to be gained by being a b!tch about it. Other moms are doing what they think is best and even if I think it's foolish for most of them (i.e. if they have no serious allergies or family history of serious vaccine reactions), it's not like me telling them that is going to change anything they are doing, it's just going to make them think I'm some kind of corporate nazi or something.
Genetic Marker, I believe. It doesn't mean that if you don't have that marker, you're safe, or that if you do have it, you're done for. And I know that. My son didn't have the marker and still had a terrible vaccine reaction that will affect the rest of his life. That said, since there is a link, they should inform parents of this (and all the facts) and ask them if they want the test before vaccinating. I'm not saying to then say "Oh you have the marker, don't vaccinate" but they could give the parents the option of spacing their vaccines out or using an alternate vaccine schedule if they want. The reason we don't vaccinate is because e DO believe in science. All of it. Not juts parts of it I don't think you are a corporate nazi, though. and I am SO glad you don't have a child who was severely harmed or killed by a vaccine. I support the right to choose though. Sometimes I think it's Karma my child had a vaccine reaction, because I was SO pro vaccine and though the people who didn't vaccinate were under-educated hippy idiots. Yes, I was that judgmental. That's not to say if I was less judgmental and had educated myself fully first that I would have skipped vaccinating. I don't know what I would have done. The reason we handle it the way we do now is because we DO have a family history of reactions and a family history of being generally healthier when vaccines are skipped. At the same time, I realize family histories have to start somewhere. Someone could have a history of not responding to vaccines, and then end up with a brain damaged child. I know, because I watched as a once-close friend of mine kept vaccinating her child, and her child kept having reactions, even though no one in her family had had them before. It wasn't until the damage was so bad that her child could no longer walk or talk and was having regular seizures that she started considering vaccines might not be the best for her child. She backed off vaccines for a while and her child improved. I *think* she does vaccinate again now that her child is older (she's a nurse and really believes in vaccines) but if I remember correctly she opted for a delayed, spaced out schedule once she realized the correlation between vaccines and her daughter's health. (And I know correlation does not mean causation but sometimes it's worth taking notice of correlation and trying new things to see what is healthiest for a child as an *individual*)

All that said, it's very easy to be pro vaccine when your child hasn't been severely harmed by them. I was that way, my friend was that way. Many people were that way. But there is NO NONE ZILCH ZERO medicines on the market that area 100% safe and 100% effective for everyone. Every medicine works for some people and can be seriously damaging to others. For example, my oldest 2 kids received the Hep vax at birth, and they were fine. But a trip to iansvoice.org will show you a child who DIED from this vaccine. Our bodies are all different. It's a cute idea that we could treat such different bodies all the same way, but sadly it doesn't work out when we do that. I also don't agree that people should have to put their kids at risk to protect the lives of other children, mostly because people who say that want to say WHICH kids should be put at risk: ie, lets risk the kids who have vaccine reactions for the sake of the "herd" instead of risking the kids who can't handle the chicken pox for the sake of natural selection. Somehow forced selection is okay to fight for, but natural selection is not. I wish we didn't have to worry about disease, but since we do, those who believe in vaccines can get them and those who don't should be able to skip them. No one should ever be forced to do something they believe could harm their child just because other people think it will protect their own children.

But like I said, I wasn't so open minded until it was my child being irreparably hurt by a vaccine. Not the best way to get a wake up call, but it's one of those life lessons that taught me that even when I think I know it all, I might not know it all after all. I don't think I know it all now: but I do know that I don't know it all, and for some reason, I feel a lot better about that.
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Last edited by alittlelost; April 6th, 2013 at 11:27 AM.
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  #10  
April 6th, 2013, 11:34 PM
IronMamma's Avatar Intactivist
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I personally do not like to talk about this because there is always one person that feels the need to attack, but I really feel like you ladies would not do that.

I do not vaccinate. I am also not vaccinated. I do not feel the need at all. I feel that our bodies are amazing and we should not alter them, but at the same time if you (meaning any Mother) wants to vaccinate their children, I whole heartily support that. I do not care to be honest. I believe each Mother tries her dang hardest to protect and nurture and educate her children. With that being said, I do not feel the need to know who IS vaccinated or who is not when with my son, That just leads to questions and "concerns" for the one party that feels SO strongly about it. I am sure Drake has been around kids who are vaccinated and who are not. Does not matter to me at all.

I am not worried about the short term effects of vaccines, I am more long term. But bottom line, no parent wants to intentionally hurt their baby. Vaccines or not, we are all good Mammas.
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