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  #1  
May 7th, 2013, 08:05 PM
NinjaCakes's Avatar Awesomesauce
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I don't want to start a vaccination debate; I think to each their own is a fine way to approach this and have no interest in judging anyone. I respect every parents right to make the decisions that are right for their child. I'm still researching and forming opinions at this point. I think it seems a little crazy that kids get like 5 shots all at once, and so frequently. Have any of you done a delayed vaccination schedule? Could you give me an example of what it was like?
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  #2  
May 7th, 2013, 08:09 PM
IronMamma's Avatar Intactivist
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Location: Arizona
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No debate will start. I think we have a group of fine ladies and no one will judge.

I however do not vaccinate so I am not really help to you. But I know what you mean. 5 at a time is too many. There little bodies are so weak, how can they handle that? I hope some ladies here who do delay can help you.
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  #3  
May 7th, 2013, 08:19 PM
NinjaCakes's Avatar Awesomesauce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMamma View Post
No debate will start. I think we have a group of fine ladies and no one will judge.

I however do not vaccinate so I am not really help to you. But I know what you mean. 5 at a time is too many. There little bodies are so weak, how can they handle that?
My thoughts exactly! And some of them seem rather unnecessary.
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  #4  
May 7th, 2013, 09:15 PM
IronMamma's Avatar Intactivist
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Location: Arizona
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I agree, which is what started my year long journey of educating myself which lead me to not vaccinate at all. I still educate myself now, I always keep myself as updated as I can possibly be on vaccines.

Are there any you are particularly worried about?
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Want to find a calmer way to parent? Please visit here HINTA Hitting Is Never The Answer
Gentle parenting is about guiding instead of controlling,
connecting instead of punishing,
and encouraging instead of demanding.
It's about listening, understanding, responding and communicating.

)O( Peace on Earth begins at Home )O(

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  #5  
May 7th, 2013, 09:37 PM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,905
I also don't vaccinate, however, when I first started researching I did so with the *intention* of vaccinating on a selective and delayed schedule. In the end, we selected none BUT maybe I can still help you out.

Option 1: Look at the vaccination schedule in other countries compared to their rates of vaccine reactions, autoimmune disorders, neurological disorders, allergies, etc, and disease outbreaks among nourished children with normal immune systems compared to that of your own country. You may find a schedule that way that you feel comfortable with.

Option 2: Go through each vaccine 1 by 1. Ask yourself:
-What are possible reactions to the vaccine?
-What are the possible outcomes of not vaccinating?
-Which is more likely?
-Which concerns me more (not necessarily the one that is more likely, ya know?)
-What would I do if my child caught (insert disease vaccine prevents here) before they were vaccinated or fully immune for this?
-What would I do if my child had a life-altering reaction to this vaccine, or if I suspected that might be happening?
-Is there something I can instead of vaccinating that has been proven to be as effective or more effective than the vaccine?
-What is the true efficacy rate of this vaccine?
-What has congress said about this vaccine? What has CDC admitted to congress about this vaccine? What have ex-members of the CDC said about this vaccine?
-In recent outbreaks for this disease, how much of the affected population was vaccinated? How much were not?
-Did the occurrence of this disease decrease before or after the vaccine for it was created?
-Who profits if I get this vaccine? Who profits if I do not?
-What studies have been done regarding this vaccine? What studies have been done on the disease this vaccine prevents against? Who is most harmed if they catch this disease? What other factors have, in the past, contributed to this disease being dangerous? (For example, diets high in sugar make have polio with symptoms more likely. Most adults carry the polio virus and don't know it, though, because polio is generally (something like 98% of the time) asymptomatic and the majority of those with symptoms do not experience permanent damage. Those who do generally have weakened immune systems and poor diet. Weigh that against possible complications to the vaccine itself. Repeat this process for all vaccines.)
-Can I live without this vaccine or do I want to definitely get it eventually (be it sooner or later)?
-By what point do I feel my baby would NEED this vaccine? (Take Hep B for example. Do you think your baby needs this ever? Do you think they need it at birth? If you think they need it, but not at birth, but which age do you feel your baby needs it? Before starting school? By the time they are a preteen? Sooner, later? Totally up to you!)
-Does my family have a history of allergies, eczema, etc?
-Does my family have a history of neurological disorders or developmental delays?
-If I delay until (insert age you are considering delaying until here) how many doses of this vaccine will my baby need to get to be considered by vaccine manufacturers as "immune"? (babies might need 3-4 doses of something a toddler would only need 1-2 doses of).
-If I don't get this vaccine right away, what else can I do to encourage the health of my baby's immune system?
-If I do get this vaccine early, what can I do to prepare my baby for the vaccine and help my baby's body respond to the vaccine as gently as possible?

I think if you go by one by and one and figure those things out for each vaccine, you can then get an idea of what you want to vaccinate for and when.

Examples of some things people do:
-Wait to give Hep B vaccine until baby is 6 months or older, sometimes waiting until baby is out of the "SIDS" age range before administering.
-Split up and delay MMR until closer to starting school
-Skip Chicken Pox vaccine
-skip Rotavirus vaccine
-skip flu shots
-skip vitamin k at birth unless birth is traumatic; look into vitamin k oral drops or vitamin k dietary supplement while pregnant/breastfeeding to avoid need to vitamin k shot.

Also be sure to look into as much unfiltered DATA as you can so you can make your own conclusions without having information skewed to meet someone's agenda. Be careful of anyone who underplays illness as well as anyone who overplays it or intentionally leaves out information. For example, when I see "chicken pox is deadly and killed x% of people who contracted it" what I really want to know is, which x%? People with autoimmune disorders? Impoverished people living in 3rd world countries without clean water and sanitary living conditions? What percent of that percent were healthy children with otherwise strong immune systems? I want ALL the facts, that's all. Doesn't mean those facts will be what I want or that those facts will change the bottom line the researcher is suggesting; however, I want them to leave that for me to decide.

I hope this information helps. I know it's a lot and can seem overwhelming, but when you go one vaccine at a time, it really helps. Some of them you only have to answer a few questions before deciding. For example, most moms I know who do delayed AND selective think it's a no brainer to skip chicken pox vaccine and delay hep b. Things like DtaP, Polio, MMR, they might be more divided about which they want and when, and for those they have to ask more of the above questions to determine what is best for their family and child. What I have found is that even if everyone on the planet asked these same questions, they would still come to different decisions and conclusions!

Before you know it, you'll be a pro on what is right for your family and all this information will seem like a breeze to navigate. Good for you for educating yourself BEFORE vaccinating. I wish I had done so. At least this way, no matter WHAT you decide you can live with the outcome and in the meantime you can feel confident that you are making an educated decision about what is best for your child personally and your family personally. Really, parenting doesn't get much better than that.
IronMamma likes this.
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Thank you Jaidynsmum for the beautiful siggy!
Check out the Attachment Parenting Board for Effective Parenting Solutions.
PM me if have questions about autism, TTC gender swaying, natural childbirth, going "vaccine-free", or if you are looking for gentle discipline advice.
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  #6  
May 7th, 2013, 09:38 PM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 6,905
I also don't vaccinate, however, when I first started researching I did so with the *intention* of vaccinating on a selective and delayed schedule. In the end, we selected none BUT maybe I can still help you out.

Option 1: Look at the vaccination schedule in other countries compared to their rates of vaccine reactions, autoimmune disorders, neurological disorders, allergies, etc, and disease outbreaks among nourished children with normal immune systems compared to that of your own country. You may find a schedule that way that you feel comfortable with.

Option 2: Go through each vaccine 1 by 1. Ask yourself:
-What are possible reactions to the vaccine?
-What are the possible outcomes of not vaccinating?
-Which is more likely?
-Which concerns me more (not necessarily the one that is more likely, ya know?)
-What would I do if my child caught (insert disease vaccine prevents here) before they were vaccinated or fully immune for this?
-What would I do if my child had a life-altering reaction to this vaccine, or if I suspected that might be happening?
-Is there something I can instead of vaccinating that has been proven to be as effective or more effective than the vaccine?
-What is the true efficacy rate of this vaccine?
-What has congress said about this vaccine? What has CDC admitted to congress about this vaccine? What have ex-members of the CDC said about this vaccine?
-In recent outbreaks for this disease, how much of the affected population was vaccinated? How much were not?
-Did the occurrence of this disease decrease before or after the vaccine for it was created?
-Who profits if I get this vaccine? Who profits if I do not?
-What studies have been done regarding this vaccine? What studies have been done on the disease this vaccine prevents against? Who is most harmed if they catch this disease? What other factors have, in the past, contributed to this disease being dangerous? (For example, diets high in sugar make have polio with symptoms more likely. Most adults carry the polio virus and don't know it, though, because polio is generally (something like 98% of the time) asymptomatic and the majority of those with symptoms do not experience permanent damage. Those who do generally have weakened immune systems and poor diet. Weigh that against possible complications to the vaccine itself. Repeat this process for all vaccines.)
-Can I live without this vaccine or do I want to definitely get it eventually (be it sooner or later)?
-By what point do I feel my baby would NEED this vaccine? (Take Hep B for example. Do you think your baby needs this ever? Do you think they need it at birth? If you think they need it, but not at birth, but which age do you feel your baby needs it? Before starting school? By the time they are a preteen? Sooner, later? Totally up to you!)
-Does my family have a history of allergies, eczema, etc?
-Does my family have a history of neurological disorders or developmental delays?
-If I delay until (insert age you are considering delaying until here) how many doses of this vaccine will my baby need to get to be considered by vaccine manufacturers as "immune"? (babies might need 3-4 doses of something a toddler would only need 1-2 doses of).
-If I don't get this vaccine right away, what else can I do to encourage the health of my baby's immune system?
-If I do get this vaccine early, what can I do to prepare my baby for the vaccine and help my baby's body respond to the vaccine as gently as possible?

I think if you go by one by and one and figure those things out for each vaccine, you can then get an idea of what you want to vaccinate for and when.

Examples of some things people do:
-Wait to give Hep B vaccine until baby is 6 months or older, sometimes waiting until baby is out of the "SIDS" age range before administering.
-Split up and delay MMR until closer to starting school
-Skip Chicken Pox vaccine
-skip Rotavirus vaccine
-skip flu shots
-skip vitamin k at birth unless birth is traumatic; look into vitamin k oral drops or vitamin k dietary supplement while pregnant/breastfeeding to avoid need to vitamin k shot.

Also be sure to look into as much unfiltered DATA as you can so you can make your own conclusions without having information skewed to meet someone's agenda. Be careful of anyone who underplays illness as well as anyone who overplays it or intentionally leaves out information. For example, when I see "chicken pox is deadly and killed x% of people who contracted it" what I really want to know is, which x%? People with autoimmune disorders? Impoverished people living in 3rd world countries without clean water and sanitary living conditions? What percent of that percent were healthy children with otherwise strong immune systems? I want ALL the facts, that's all. Doesn't mean those facts will be what I want or that those facts will change the bottom line the researcher is suggesting; however, I want them to leave that for me to decide.

I hope this information helps. I know it's a lot and can seem overwhelming, but when you go one vaccine at a time, it really helps. Some of them you only have to answer a few questions before deciding. For example, most moms I know who do delayed AND selective think it's a no brainer to skip chicken pox vaccine and delay hep b. Things like DtaP, Polio, MMR, they might be more divided about which they want and when, and for those they have to ask more of the above questions to determine what is best for their family and child. What I have found is that even if everyone on the planet asked these same questions, they would still come to different decisions and conclusions!

Before you know it, you'll be a pro on what is right for your family and all this information will seem like a breeze to navigate. Good for you for educating yourself BEFORE vaccinating. I wish I had done so. At least this way, no matter WHAT you decide you can live with the outcome and in the meantime you can feel confident that you are making an educated decision about what is best for your child personally and your family personally. Really, parenting doesn't get much better than that.
__________________
Thank you Jaidynsmum for the beautiful siggy!
Check out the Attachment Parenting Board for Effective Parenting Solutions.
PM me if have questions about autism, TTC gender swaying, natural childbirth, going "vaccine-free", or if you are looking for gentle discipline advice.
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  #7  
May 7th, 2013, 09:46 PM
IronMamma's Avatar Intactivist
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,974
I agree with looking at other countries. Im about to sit down and eat dinner so I will reply later.
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Thank you *Kiliki* for my perfect siggy

Want to find a calmer way to parent? Please visit here HINTA Hitting Is Never The Answer
Gentle parenting is about guiding instead of controlling,
connecting instead of punishing,
and encouraging instead of demanding.
It's about listening, understanding, responding and communicating.

)O( Peace on Earth begins at Home )O(

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  #8  
May 8th, 2013, 05:04 AM
KMH KMH is offline
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A lot of parents use the Dr. Sears delayed schedule: (Dr Sears Vaccine Schedule). It makes sure that the child gets no more than 2 shots each visit, and no more than one live-virus vaccine per visit. There is one selective schedule which leaves out some shots, and another that includes all the recommended vaccines.

His book (The Vaccine Book) has a lot of info about each shot, the possible side-effects, the chances of your LO actually contracting the thing that you are vaxing against, etc. It definitely isn't a one-stop-shop for vaxing info, but it is one resource to help.

Note: This schedule assumes that you can get the measles, mumps, and rubella shots separately. These are not made separately anymore (at least they weren't last time I inquired), so if you want those you have to get the combo MMR vax.

Good luck...these decisions are tough!
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Last edited by KMH; May 8th, 2013 at 05:06 AM.
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  #9  
May 8th, 2013, 06:23 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,084
I plan on following a modified (selective) Dr. Sears Vax schedule. Based on hours and hours of research and looking at our lifestyle and needs I feel this to be the best fit for our family. I agree, it's not the be all end all of vax. info, but The Vaccine Book is a great place to start in learning about what is in each vaccine, and also what is available as far as your options go.
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  #10  
May 8th, 2013, 07:24 AM
MapleGranola's Avatar Proud Momma
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,669
We are doing a delayed selective schedule. DH has agreed no vaccines until at least one year and I'm pushing for two years. Our son also will not be getting all of the recommended vaccines because I don't feel they are necessary for him based on our lifestyle.
Personally as a child I developed measles from the MMR shot and that's just not a risk I feel like taking with my son.

I also read Dr Sears book and it was very informative and helpful in making our decision.
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  #11  
May 8th, 2013, 07:37 AM
sareymac's Avatar Mommy to Gary & Adalyn
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Posts: 6,422
We vax on schedule and so far have never had that many shots at once. I don't think I would like that very much! Thats about all I got for you lol
Def do your research and do whats best for your family
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  #12  
May 8th, 2013, 08:12 AM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchywannabe View Post
I plan on following a modified (selective) Dr. Sears Vax schedule. Based on hours and hours of research and looking at our lifestyle and needs I feel this to be the best fit for our family. I agree, it's not the be all end all of vax. info, but The Vaccine Book is a great place to start in learning about what is in each vaccine, and also what is available as far as your options go.
That's where we started, too.

I can't believe they don't split up the MMR anymore. Such a shame.
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Thank you Jaidynsmum for the beautiful siggy!
Check out the Attachment Parenting Board for Effective Parenting Solutions.
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  #13  
May 8th, 2013, 09:46 AM
*Jennifer*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Oct 2008
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We vaccinate on schedule over here. Do what you think is best for your child.
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  #14  
May 8th, 2013, 11:50 AM
IronMamma's Avatar Intactivist
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The bottom line is, this is one topic that there will be SOOOOOO many opinions on. Some people will preach how bad they are and some will preach how good they are. Just do your research and don't let anyone alter your decision. A lot of people will disagree with you and a lot will agree. It's a huge part of being a Mom. Just do what is best for you!
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Want to find a calmer way to parent? Please visit here HINTA Hitting Is Never The Answer
Gentle parenting is about guiding instead of controlling,
connecting instead of punishing,
and encouraging instead of demanding.
It's about listening, understanding, responding and communicating.

)O( Peace on Earth begins at Home )O(

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  #15  
May 8th, 2013, 01:23 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I agree with do what you want to do. Don't let anyone pressure you into anything. I can't be of any help because I honestly still don't know where I stand on vaccinations. I agree with some points on both sides. My son has had some vaccinations and my dd has had none. Now that she hasn't had any shots I kinda am leaning towards delayed vaccinations.
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  #16  
May 8th, 2013, 08:45 PM
NinjaCakes's Avatar Awesomesauce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronMamma View Post
Are there any you are particularly worried about?
Well I've been doing a lot of research on hospital procedures surrounding birth and newborns, so most of my concrete knowledge is in that area. The Hep B vaccine at birth seems entirely superfluous. The vitamin K shot, too, unless she's injured somehow. A lot of them seem to me like they could be delayed without any harm. Some of them will depend on how soon I can find a job and what day care situation we go with.

Truth be told, if there's a way we can vaccinate the people around her rather than her, I'd go with that every time (like pertussis). We aren't exactly get out and do stuff kind of people, but she won't be staying with anyone else while we're out grocery shopping etc. I'd rather risk germs than the people in our lives.
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  #17  
May 8th, 2013, 08:53 PM
IronMamma's Avatar Intactivist
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I agree with you. I do not find it necessary for a completely healthy new baby to immediately get the Hep B vaccine. But, that's just me.

I just know this, if I WAS to vaccinate I would not do it until he was wayyyyyyyy older. But as you know, we won't at all.

We are also not go out type of people. I would rather stay home or do something simple like the park. But even if you do delay until she is older or whatever you decide to do, don't be afraid to go out. We could all get sick, it's just life.
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Want to find a calmer way to parent? Please visit here HINTA Hitting Is Never The Answer
Gentle parenting is about guiding instead of controlling,
connecting instead of punishing,
and encouraging instead of demanding.
It's about listening, understanding, responding and communicating.

)O( Peace on Earth begins at Home )O(

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  #18  
May 10th, 2013, 10:37 AM
0110011001101100011101010
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At the 3 month check up DD2 should have been vaccinated against 7 illnesses. I thought that was pretty insane so I started condisering delaying and selective vaccnating. I then got a crummy lecture by a doctor who never once asked me what my concerns with the vaccination schedule were, just tried to shame me into compliance. That pretty much cemented for me that no way could I go with the schedule and make that doctor think she swayed me.

With universal healthcare and free shots we dont have any choice in the brand. They just give what they happen to have purchased that year. They give a 5 in 1 shot and then on top of that have the oral rotavirus and pneuomococci. I opted to starting with the scheduled 5-in-1 and MMR at 1yrs of age. She went pretty much on schedule with those just a delayed one. I skipped the rota and pneumo.

I think that for us delaying the vaccines was the best thing ever. I noticed her getting a lot more sick after she had been vaccinated. For her first year she was the healthiest baby in our mom's group. I firmly believe that vaccines depress the immune system for a while after they have been given (another example is DD1 who went 13 months without as much as a runny nose just to get a cold a week after a vaccine).
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  #19  
May 10th, 2013, 01:26 PM
alittlelost's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think that's true, Fluga. I've noticed a HUGE difference in my unvaccinated child (youngest). He very very very rarely gets sick. He's 5 and he's only been TRULY sick ONCE in his life. (We all got a 48-72 hour bug; he got it too, but his only lasted 8 hours.) Other than that, every now and then the family gets sick and IF he is affected at all (normally he's not) he only gets a mild fever that lasts for 12 hours tops (and doesn't slow him down a bit), then he's fine. I wish I had his immune system. Coincidence is of course always a possibility, but I know sooooo many women who can tell you the same story, and then there's the science to back up why this happens, so I do think it's *possible* there is more to it than simple coincidence
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  #20  
May 11th, 2013, 08:44 PM
Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alittlelost View Post
I think that's true, Fluga. I've noticed a HUGE difference in my unvaccinated child (youngest). He very very very rarely gets sick. He's 5 and he's only been TRULY sick ONCE in his life. (We all got a 48-72 hour bug; he got it too, but his only lasted 8 hours.) Other than that, every now and then the family gets sick and IF he is affected at all (normally he's not) he only gets a mild fever that lasts for 12 hours tops (and doesn't slow him down a bit), then he's fine. I wish I had his immune system. Coincidence is of course always a possibility, but I know sooooo many women who can tell you the same story, and then there's the science to back up why this happens, so I do think it's *possible* there is more to it than simple coincidence
I agree. My son who has had some shots has been sick way more than my dd. He even got tubes at 8 months old cuz he got 6 back to back ear infections. He gets viruses and my dd has not. She has been sick once. She got roseola when she was 6 months old and that's it. No colds or anything.
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