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  #21  
February 8th, 2007, 02:13 PM
babyeddys's Avatar Regular
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Wow

Being a "sleep training" parent or not I don't know one person who would say having a child is unpleasant and anyone who says its unpleasant shouldn't had had kids. No one said being a parent is easy and its not but how can you say its neglectful? I'll tell you why its not.. At no point on the journey to sleep did my kids CIO, at no point did I go through this without guidence from my pediatrician. I've heard other people say "if your child wakes during the night they r hungry" if this was true (not saying its this way for everyone) my twins would have ate.. I tried this theory for 3 days, and my twins although they were waking up had absolutly no interest in eatting...

Others would say if your constantly giving into your kids every desire you will have serious issues saying "no" later on

Yes the child has to mesh with your life, rather you need to mesh with theirs... At what point tho do they match your schedule? For me, my girls eat at the same time? Am I a irresponsible/neglectful for feeding my girls at the same time?.
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  #22  
February 8th, 2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
I don't know one person who would say having a child is unpleasant and anyone who says its unpleasant shouldn't had had kids.[/b]
LOL, okay!
Quote:
Raising children is not always supposed to be pleasant[/b]
There is my quote, that you are butchering and I stand by it! Parenting is not always "pleasant", it is not a cake walk, it is full of trials and bad moments. I just found out that my son is going blind! Is that fun or pleasant, NO! It is hard, it is exhausting, it is horryfing and sad, it is not always pleasant!

Quote:
No one said being a parent is easy and its not but how can you say its neglectful?[/b]
IMO, not tending to an INFANTS needs, is wrong.
Quote:
I'll tell you why its not.. At no point on the journey to sleep did my kids CIO, at no point did I go through this without guidence from my pediatrician.[/b]
I am not calling you a child abuser, I just think the methods of sleep training are sorely misguided.

Quote:
Others would say if your constantly giving into your kids every desire you will have serious issues saying "no" later on[/b]
I have no issues saying no to my 5 year old, and she does not have a problem receiving a no.

Quote:
Yes the child has to mesh with your life, rather you need to mesh with theirs... At what point tho do they match your schedule?[/b]
*shrug* I guess I have always acclimated to my child's needs. My schedule is whatever my child's schedule is. I am not saying there is not a time when it sleep training is not appropriate, I have never seen it recommended before 6 months though. I don't see 12 hours by 12 weeks old as age appropriate.

Quote:
For me, my girls eat at the same time? Am I a irresponsible/neglectful for feeding my girls at the same time?.[/b]
I don't really understand this question. I am not trying to call you a bad parent or imply that you love your child any less, I have no doubt that your children are the light of your life. I just think sleep training is misguided.
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  #23  
February 8th, 2007, 03:02 PM
babyeddys's Avatar Regular
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Quote:
IMO, not tending to an INFANTS needs, is wrong?[/b]
At no point from what I understand did Morwen or myself not attend to our children....what makes anyone sure their child is hungry? why couldnt they just want reassurance that your there, or that they have a poopy diaper... as a parent of an infant when your child cries, how do you figure out what they need, trial and error right... never once did i not attend to my twins, as i have posted before, they had no desire to eat...

Yes your life revolves around your kids, what happens when your five yr old is wanting to eat supper at 4pm but your supper is at 6... do you change your suppertime to fit their schedule? I pride myself on the fact i know when my kids will want to eat, i can do errands and not have to worry about feedings.. maybe i am special cuz i am a mom of multiples and without this structure i would go nuts and so would any other mom of mulitples that i know... I actually have a friend whose twins are 4 days older then mineand shes a wreck because she lives by her kids schedule.... feeding every 90 mins 1 or 2 ozs.. that just seems crazy... shes up 4 times a night, not cuz her kids r hungry - again 1 or 2 oz... her kids do this bc they can and the parents r paying the price... I should add they wish the kids sleep.

what i meant by feeding my kids at the same time.. is based on what i understand from you stance is this : attend to your child's cues not when its convient for you.. well its convient for me to feed my girls at the same time so does that make me irresponsible or neglectful as iam forcing my convience on them... its also convient for me to put them to bed at the same time... again... am i forcing my kids too much...

I didnt quote this, but yes, the book is about getting 12 hours sleep by 12 weeks but its not a "accomplish at any cost" yes that is the jist, but there is ALOT more behind accomplishing this then to "let your baby cry until they give up"
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  #24  
February 8th, 2007, 07:14 PM
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Stacey, I just wanted to say...




You rock and you said everything I wanted to say, only nicer than I could have.
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  #25  
February 8th, 2007, 09:29 PM
~Jess~'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
I second CShell.
I was in no hurry, with either of my children, to adjust them to MY schedule. I chose to have children and I have to make sacrifices, the least of which was sleep, to make sure that they are happy and healthy. I don't know what the methods used in the book were, but I see no need to have a 3 month old sleeping 12 hours a night. It was months before my son would sleep more than 3 hours in a stretch, but I always answer his needs. Even now, at 13months, there is the rare occassion he wakes up in the middle of the night, I still tend to him.

I don't see how it is healthy to start training a newborn to, not only, not eat for 12 hours, but to sleep that long.[/b]


I'm also guessing that this book encourages formula feeding. How is a bfing mother to ensure that her child gets a certain # of ozs at each feeding? Bm is also much more quickly digested, and leads to the child needing more frequent feedings-that is a proven fact. I would have had one miserable screaming child on my hands if I had only fed him every 4 hours! Is the idea to get the child used to having stomach pains so that they cease to cry out to be fed in the middle of the night? I take serious issue with telling a bfing mom to only feed her child every 4 hours and AT 12 WEEKS not to feed that child in the night!!!! Sorry-NO!

I am a firm believer in sleep training, but NOT at that young of an age and NOT when it requires refusing to feed your child in between "scheduled" feedings. Sorry, but there is a HUGE difference between a 12 week old baby and a 5-year-old child! I can't believe some of you are even making that comparison!
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  #26  
February 9th, 2007, 12:44 AM
babyeddys's Avatar Regular
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I just wanna add I breastfeed while I was doing this and again, my girls NEVER had an issue going 4 hrs... The book does not reccommend Formula over breastmilk,

Obviously we are not going to agree on methods, so let's agree to disagree. Keep in your sleep deprivation ways and Morwen and I will continue to be great moms and have great children who get lots of sleep and thrive and grow to be strong confident adults and maybe just maybe, if the mood is right you will educate yourself on what methods are out there to get a few more hrs sleep regardless of age! - btw, I just had a mom of 1 year old twins ask me for the book as she is sick of her kids waking up and feels they should be sleepin longer than 2 hour stretches and wishes she had had the book a lot earlier... To quote her " I wish I had known sooner as I have no idea why anyone would go through months of sleepless nights when there is a very simple way to transistion to fullnights without neglecting your childs needs"
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  #27  
February 9th, 2007, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
I just wanna add I breastfeed while I was doing this and again, my girls NEVER had an issue going 4 hrs... The book does not reccommend Formula over breastmilk,

Obviously we are not going to agree on methods, so let's agree to disagree. Keep in your sleep deprivation ways and Morwen and I will continue to be great moms and have great children who get lots of sleep and thrive and grow to be strong confident adults and maybe just maybe, if the mood is right you will educate yourself on what methods are out there to get a few more hrs sleep regardless of age! - btw, I just had a mom of 1 year old twins ask me for the book as she is sick of her kids waking up and feels they should be sleepin longer than 2 hour stretches and wishes she had had the book a lot earlier... To quote her " I wish I had known sooner as I have no idea why anyone would go through months of sleepless nights when there is a very simple way to transistion to fullnights without neglecting your childs needs"[/b]
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  #28  
February 9th, 2007, 08:58 AM
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Well Stacey I guess we will just have to suffer with maladjusted, unhappy children that will turn into maladjusted, unhappy adults because we weren't educated enough to train them like puppies.




Casey
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  #29  
February 9th, 2007, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Well Stacey I guess we will just have to suffer with maladjusted, unhappy children that will turn into maladjusted, unhappy adults because we weren't educated enough to train them like puppies.




Casey[/b]

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  #30  
February 9th, 2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
My schedule is whatever my child's schedule is. I am not saying there is not a time when it sleep training is not appropriate, I have never seen it recommended before 6 months though. I don't see 12 hours by 12 weeks old as age appropriate.[/b]
I agree with this. I think sleep training is not recommended at that early an age.
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  #31  
February 9th, 2007, 11:56 AM
CJMOM209
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I have found no matter what book I read on parenting, some things work for my child and some don't. I don't think you should do everything that a book tells you to do if it is causing burden on a child. The child should be put first and if something works, great!

We've been on Caleb's schedule since the day he was born!
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  #32  
February 9th, 2007, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Well Stacey I guess we will just have to suffer with maladjusted, unhappy children that will turn into maladjusted, unhappy adults because we weren't educated enough to train them like puppies.




Casey[/b]
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  #33  
February 9th, 2007, 07:30 PM
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Ok---can someone give a brief description of what exactly the book suggests you do to 'train' the infant?

I'm not going to say that it is wrong, or is not wrong---but babies that young have very small stomachs. For them to be comfortable and well-nourished-they need to eat far more frequently that we as adults do.

Also, infants get dehydrated far easier than adults which would also concern me.

If there is any crying it out involved-I would be against it. I let my daughter cry it out at 8 months. I didn't like it, will try everything in my power not to do it again---BUT it is, IMO, ok to do it at that age if you must.

A younger infant cries because it is hungry, or needs affection, or is cold, or hot, or has gas, or just needs some comforting. Crying is the ONLY way that a younger infant has to express it's feelings and ask for help. Crying in a younger infant should never be ignored, they do not do it for attention as older infants may.



But personally I don't agree with any type of schedule for an infant of any age. I believe that a child will let you know when they are hungry, sleepy, etc. I hate watching babies be given bottles when it is clear that they are not hungry--just because it is 'time'. Not to mention you don't notice when the infant needs more food or less. You just give because that is what's on the schedule. And you wonder why there are so many hefty babies out there(not implying that all babies on schedules are like this).
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  #34  
February 10th, 2007, 07:46 AM
chloe82
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Wow....I wonder if we could blow this sleep-training issue out of proportion more than it already is....i can't believe the accusatory tone of so many of the posts.
Can we just say if you want to sleep train go ahead and if you don't, don't? There's no need to throw words like "neglect" into it. I find it ridiculous to refer to teaching a receptive and healthy baby to sleep through the night as "neglectful" when the poster already stated she is not letting the baby scream, all the baby's needs are attended to, etc. Give her a break.
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  #35  
February 10th, 2007, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Wow....I wonder if we could blow this sleep-training issue out of proportion more than it already is....i can't believe the accusatory tone of so many of the posts.
Can we just say if you want to sleep train go ahead and if you don't, don't? There's no need to throw words like "neglect" into it. I find it ridiculous to refer to teaching a receptive and healthy baby to sleep through the night as "neglectful" when the poster already stated she is not letting the baby scream, all the baby's needs are attended to, etc. Give her a break.[/b]
so you think it's acceptable for an infant to go 12 hours at night without eating? Thats not including all the sleep the baby will get during the day. 12 hours is a long time to go without nourishment.
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  #36  
February 10th, 2007, 10:03 AM
chloe82
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Quote:
Quote:
Wow....I wonder if we could blow this sleep-training issue out of proportion more than it already is....i can't believe the accusatory tone of so many of the posts.
Can we just say if you want to sleep train go ahead and if you don't, don't? There's no need to throw words like "neglect" into it. I find it ridiculous to refer to teaching a receptive and healthy baby to sleep through the night as "neglectful" when the poster already stated she is not letting the baby scream, all the baby's needs are attended to, etc. Give her a break.[/b]
so you think it's acceptable for an infant to go 12 hours at night without eating? Thats not including all the sleep the baby will get during the day. 12 hours is a long time to go without nourishment.
[/b]
Yes, I do. Both my kids were doing so by that point...earlier even....sleeping approx. 11-12 hours a night without waking and needing to be fed. If they needed it, they would wake up and cry! They didn't....so I didn't worry about it. I fed them, changed them, made sure they were warm and comfortable, soothed them and lay them down. They sleep. I sleep. No one is being neglected. They were both happy, healthy and well-nourished babies and continue to be so as they grow. I have no reason to feel bad about it and the OP who got flamed shouldn't be made to feel bad about her decision either. She found a method that worked for her...it was easy for her baby to learn and now her and her family are well-rested and better off. I say good for her. People need to relax and stop thinking babies are going to starve and be malnourished and miserable if they sleep through the night. Let's save terms like "neglectful" for actual cases of neglect.
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  #37  
February 10th, 2007, 08:35 PM
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We don't do any kind of "scheduling" with our kiddos. We feed on demand. Granted, some days it was 5 hours between feedings, and other days 45 minutes. We sleep on demand. Our first naturally hit the hay for a full night (about 7.5 hours) around 4 months old. Our second may not.

I can honestly say I don't agree with scheduling feedings or any kind of sleep training. Maybe because I simply don't understand it. I don't particularly think people who do it are wrong, or neglectful; I just feel that infants are infants and shouldn't be made to adhere to an adult's schedule. That includes any type of "training" in order to get them on that schedule. I'm of the way of thinking that those things will happen naturally, when the time is right for the baby, not when the adults want it to.

Do I think the OP is a horrible mother because she went a different route? No. Do I think my way is better? No. In all honestly, I can tell you I just don't understand the concept, therefore I couldn't practice it.
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  #38  
February 10th, 2007, 08:36 PM
Caeden&#39;sMama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I think the problem is that the OP is the one who came on here with an "accusatory" tone, questioning her friend's, and then later on, the people who responded's parenting methods. I think a lot of us actually started off very nicely, just trying to point out that there are REASONS for not wanting to follow sleep training methods.

JMO though...
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  #39  
February 10th, 2007, 08:47 PM
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As for momma's asking what's in the book, from what I gathered from reviews from ABC, medhelp, and babiestoday is this:

The "tips" she gives mainly involve scheduling and routine. To get from waking to feed to sleeping all night, night feedings are gradually removed, and those feedings are moved into daytime; meaning, you remove a night feeding, and add a day feeding. Continue until night-feedings are gone.

Also advised against is soothing or rocking your child to sleep, as they won't be able to "self-soothe" themselves back to sleep should they awaken.

All in all, what I found what just a very rigid timetable to place an 8 week old on in order to get to this "desired" state of sleeping. I wasn't particularly pleased with what I read.
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  #40  
February 11th, 2007, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
. I am not saying you are "starving" your children, but you are not addressing their needs when they need them met, you are addressing them when it is convenient to you. Any type of sleep training before 6 months is irresponsible and, dare I say, bordering on neglectful.[/b]
I'm sorry but I find this to be a very irresponsible quote unless you are a medical doctor. I never read the book or intended to put my son on a "sleeping schedule". I never trained him. But, my doctor did encourage that we wean him off his night bottles at 3 months, by putting him to sleep a little later in the night and making sure he got 8 (yes 8) bottles a day, which would lead him to be getting the 32 ounces of formula he needed. My son grew like a weed (and is in the top 75% of his height and head circumference charts). And, he still sleeps 12 hours a night. He now eats solids and it is less of an issue. I am sorry, but I don't think that anyone who isn't a medical doctor should be telling someone that they are a neglectful parent.
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