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  #61  
February 15th, 2007, 07:54 AM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
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i just thought aboutthis. if your babe is on a 4 hour eat schedule and a 12 hour sleep schedule then they are only eating 3 times a day!!! [/b]

[/b]

that really pisses me off.
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  #62  
February 15th, 2007, 12:13 PM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I just have a quick question.........WHY are we wanting our babies to sleep for 12 hours? I mean, ADULTS dont even sleep for 12 straight hours! Show me a working adult, or nonworking parent for that matter, who gets 12 hours of sleep a night! I go to bed between 10 and 11 on a regular night, but will occassionally get to bed around 9 if I am REALLY lucky that day. Then I wake up at 6am. Thats only 9 hours at the very most that I am sleeping at night and by then I am usually STARVING in the morning or at least needing a drink really bad. Now, if we dont expect adults to sleep for 12 hours straight, HOW can we expect INFANTS to sleep for 12 hours. Why would we? It cant be because the adult is sleeping those 12 hours. Can it? Maybe I am the odd man out here, but I really dont know a single adult who sleeps for 12 hours at night. I just dont understand the point of getting an infant to sleep that long. I can see if someone said "I finally got my baby to sleep for 6-8 hours during the night!" That would be great, if they werent "trained" and just kinda got into the routine themselves. But I honestly dont understand why they need to have their baby sleep for 12 hours.



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  #63  
February 15th, 2007, 01:27 PM
chloe82
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Babies aren't adults. I don't know any adults who nap once or twice a day every day either but babies do. Our sleep patterns are different, and I know many of you will quote that and demand to know why I then expect my babies to sleep through the night and my answer is simple: because they can learn it easily and it's not that big of a deal! They're not suffering any because they do! They're not starving or being neglected!
My babies both slept (and still do) 12 hours a night from an early age (a couple of months old). I know there's no point trying to convince most of you that I'm not neglecting them, but just for the record, I'm not. They're happy, healthy, and thriving and always have been. Currently, I feed my 7 month old at 7:30-8 am-ish, then 11:30-ish, then when she gets up from her afternoon nap, usually between 3:30-4:30 ish, and then before bed, at 7-ish.
So that's 4 feeds, not including meals when I give her solids.
I didn't do that when she was a newborn! I have adjusted her schedule many, many times according to how she was doing....at first I fed her a couple times during the night when she would wake, as well as more frequently during the day. But babies adjust more easily than anyone gives them credit for. To eliminate the nighttime feedings, once I knew she was thriving and a healthy weight and all that, I simply slowly started increasing the times between the night feeds by 15 minute increments every several days or as she got used to it. It was simple and easy and within a few weeks she was easily sleeping through the night. My pediatrician had no problems with what I was doing, even encouraged it as I have a medical need to get my sleep.
ps. I also have a dog. Thank you for that patronizing suggestion.
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  #64  
February 15th, 2007, 01:42 PM
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just wanted to note that i wasnt talking about you with the four hour feed thing.
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  #65  
February 15th, 2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Babies aren't adults. I don't know any adults who nap once or twice a day every day either but babies do. Our sleep patterns are different, and I know many of you will quote that and demand to know why I then expect my babies to sleep through the night and my answer is simple: because they can learn it easily and it's not that big of a deal! They're not suffering any because they do! They're not starving or being neglected!
My babies both slept (and still do) 12 hours a night from an early age (a couple of months old). I know there's no point trying to convince most of you that I'm not neglecting them, but just for the record, I'm not. They're happy, healthy, and thriving and always have been. Currently, I feed my 7 month old at 7:30-8 am-ish, then 11:30-ish, then when she gets up from her afternoon nap, usually between 3:30-4:30 ish, and then before bed, at 7-ish.
So that's 4 feeds, not including meals when I give her solids.
I didn't do that when she was a newborn! I have adjusted her schedule many, many times according to how she was doing....at first I fed her a couple times during the night when she would wake, as well as more frequently during the day. But babies adjust more easily than anyone gives them credit for. To eliminate the nighttime feedings, once I knew she was thriving and a healthy weight and all that, I simply slowly started increasing the times between the night feeds by 15 minute increments every several days or as she got used to it. It was simple and easy and within a few weeks she was easily sleeping through the night. My pediatrician had no problems with what I was doing, even encouraged it as I have a medical need to get my sleep.
ps. I also have a dog. Thank you for that patronizing suggestion.[/b]


Honestly.......I was just asking. As you (general) may be able to tell, I am due in May. This is my first child. I do not agree with sleep training...but then again..I have not had my baby yet so even though I think I know what to expect, it very possibly may be completely different. In my thought process however, I just can't understand why babies NEED to sleep 12 straight hours. I understand the sleep throughout the day. Which would make me understand the 12 hour thing even less because if they are sleeping on and off throughout the day......why would we expect them to then sleep for 12 straight hours at night? I'm not being "patranizing" in any stretch of the imagination....I am simply trying to understand. I dont agree, but at least I am trying to understand.


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  #66  
February 15th, 2007, 05:40 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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Quote:
Remember your goal of nighttime parenting. You can't force your baby into a state of sleep. Your role as a parent is to create a sleep-inducing environment that allows sleep to overtake the baby naturally. We believe that the ultimate goal of nighttime parenting is: to help your baby develop a healthy attitude about sleep, so that your child grows up regarding sleep as a pleasant state to enter, with no fears of either falling asleep or staying asleep. To accomplish this goal, you will put a lot of effort into parenting your child to sleep and parenting her back to sleep when she awakens in the middle of the night. Eventually, your care and comfort will become part of her inner resources, and she will be able to do this for herself.

This goal is very different from training baby to sleep through the night as soon as possible by denying him parental comfort, in other words, letting him cry. This can lead to children developing unhealthy attitudes toward sleep. Worse, they learn that they can't depend on parents to meet their nighttime needs. Meanwhile, mom and dad become less sensitive to their child's signals.

With the cry-it-out method, what's the lesson baby learns? "They aren't going to come, so I may as well give up," or "It doesn't matter how I feel." Less-persistent babies give up quickly. Since they can't trust parents to be there, they "cope" and learn a big lesson: You have to look after number one because no one else will.
Think of nighttime parenting as a long-term investment. The middle-of-the- night time you put in now will save you sleep in the years ahead. Your children will sleep well when they are older, and the good relationship you have built with them will keep you from lying awake at night worrying when they are teenagers and young adults.[/b]
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/3/T031600.asp


Quote:
Babywise
Authors Gary Ezzo and Robert Bucknam have misleadingly redefined the term and thus smoke-screened the issue. Babies need to eat or drink when they need to, and that is as individual in intervals and duration as the infinite variety of humankind. Yes, there are averages that may fit into a bell-shaped curve model, but by definition there will also be babies who fall on either side, requiring very short or needing only longer nursing intervals. Temperature, activity, teething or health may also affect these needs and patterns. No schedule, not even a "flexible routine", allows for this variation, because the base premise is that parents, by virtue of being adults, know better than baby what the baby's needs are at every point in time. A baby's cries, his most dramatic expression of need, are instead routinely interpreted through an artificial filter that precludes the possibility that many babies are not going to behave like THE average baby and may actually have needs that we have not anticipated. Thus, we lose our ability to understand what is truly "good" for our baby because we are no longer open to learning from him, but only to "teaching" him -- imposing upon him-- how to be a culturally model baby.[/b]
Quote:
Eating patterns.
Physicians and dietitians have long decried the American way of eating three big meals a day. They have often said that six smaller meals would be more beneficial for our digestive systems, growth and development. Given this, then, why should anyone try to cut back a baby's feeding frequency to only four a day by twelve weeks, as the Ezzos promote? Unlike adults, who need only to keep their weight stable, babies need to double their birthweight in 5-6 months and triple it in a year.[/b]
Quote:
The average need of a baby is to feed 8-10 times a day, and up to 12-14 times a day during growth spurts (Mohrbacher and Stock); schedules simply do not adequately allow for such unpredictable variations.[/b]
Quote:
It can be argued that bottle-fed babies should be exempt from the need for demand feeding, but even though the composition and availability of their milk is relatively stable and without the immunity factors of human milk, they, too, may benefit from being allowed to eat when hungry, rather than being forced to take in possibly larger amounts on less frequent intervals in order to meet their daily caloric needs, stretching their stomachs unnecessarily in the process.

Empirical and theoretical evidence combined continue to support current recommendations of the American Academy of Pediatrics that babies, most especially breastfed babies, need to be fed on cue and should be allowed to set their own routine, rather than placed into a predetermined schedule. It is our further conclusion that practices which interfere with respecting babies' cuings have been responsible for low weight gains, failure to thrive, milk supply failure, involuntary early weaning, and possibly even some cases of colic, not to mention infant regression and depression due to lack of parental responsiveness to baby's frantic cues.[/b]
http://www.fix.net/~rprewett/evidence.html
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  #67  
February 16th, 2007, 04:37 AM
chloe82
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I really don't mind agreeing to disagree here.
I'm aware that there are experts and studies out there that don't recommend sleep training, but there are experts and studies out there who offer all sorts of opinions and research that could influence EVERY SINGLE thing I do with my children every day....lots are conflicting, some aren't....I mean if I'm going to base everything I do with my kids based on statistics or this or that study that was done a couple of years ago, this expert opinion over that expert opinion, etc, I would be virtually paralyzed! To use a stroller or not....to co-sleep or not to co-sleep....am I warping my toddler when I give him a time-out...how to feed, what to feed, when to feed....the list goes on and on...and while all that information has value and we need to give it consideration, sometimes you have to take into account each individual families' situation and understand that sometimes there is a "greater good" so to speak, involved in a parents' decision, even if it doesn't seem like the *best* thing to do to other people. Sometimes the bigger picture is more important when you step back from the statistics, which don't take into account all those individualities. I think we need to be a little more open to the idea that a mother's (and family units' as a whole) health and sanity is directly tied to her baby's wellbeing, that babies adapt to simple changes easily, and that a happy family is a GOOD thing and an IMPORTANT thing for a baby. I know you don't think so, but I don't hesitate for one second when I say that I made the best decision for us when I helped my babies learn to sleep through the night. If you don't agree and don't want to do that with your own kids, that's fine! But I think we're all doing our best and we could all be a little kinder to each other. Sorry but the comment "why don't you just get a dog" is extremely insulting and just shows a tremendous lack of understanding IMO. While I'm not personally hurt by it I can see how someone would be. Can't we all just get along??!!! B)
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