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  #1  
February 6th, 2007, 07:55 AM
Morwen's Avatar Regular
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Hi all,

I have a bit of a cunundrum here and was hoping that maybe some of you, or maybe all of you can shed some light on the sleep 'resistance' I have encoutered..

Here is some back ground on my situation..

My son is 8 1/2 mths old and has been sleeping through the night (a full 12 hrs) since he was 11 weeks old... I used the book 12 Hours of Sleep by 12 Weeks Old by Suzy Giordano... It was a godsend for me..

Her steps were easy to follow, her tips easy to use, with minimal impact on my son... and little to no crying...

I wanted to share this book with every Mom that I knew, I thought it was the greatest gift that anyone could give me... SLEEP!!!

I was a MUCH happier Mom with Owen sleeping through the night, he was a much happier baby and me and my husband actually got some alone time to sit in quiet and just enjoy each other... It has brought much peace to me and my household.. And if anyone ever asks me I reccomend this book highly and hold it in a very high regaurd..

However it seems that not all Mommies are as keen as I was to get thier child to sleep a full 12 hours, and I need to understand why...

I have a friend who is also a new Mommy, her son was born 3 weeks after mine, and she just *finally* got him to sleep 6 hrs straight... And she emailed all her friends to share this news and I wasn't too sure what to say... Especially when she was one of the Mommies who was so opposed to using the methods I used..

So please help me understand what is so wrong about using a book written by a baby coach (who has been doing this for 13 odd years) to help your child sleep a full 12hrs, what reasons would you have *not* to heed this advice?

~
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  #2  
February 6th, 2007, 08:43 AM
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Maybe some of the techniques used went against what she felt was right for her child. If it doesnt bother her to get up throughout the night then it shouldnt be a concern of someone else. Everyone has their own way of doing things and maybe she just didnt want to force anything on her son and didnt feel the need to have her child sleeping for 12 hours by 12 weeks.


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  #3  
February 6th, 2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Maybe some of the techniques used went against what she felt was right for her child. If it doesnt bother her to get up throughout the night then it shouldnt be a concern of someone else. Everyone has their own way of doing things and maybe she just didnt want to force anything on her son and didnt feel the need to have her child sleeping for 12 hours by 12 weeks.


Casey[/b]
Ok, thats all fine and well and I understand that we are all raising our children the way *we* see fit to do so... However I would like to understand why you wouldn't want your child to sleep well when it bennifits the whole household.. Child included...

And its not forced, it gently handled... And trust me my son was not forced into anything...

I just made sure he was getting enough to eat during the day to sustain him throughout the night...

~
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  #4  
February 6th, 2007, 10:09 AM
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I don't really think a 3 month old should be sleeping 12 hours straight through night, personally. I know that doesn't really answer your question, but it doesn't matter to me who forceful or not forceful the method is, it doesn't mesh with my and my pediatrician's view of how a child should be sleeping at that age.
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  #5  
February 6th, 2007, 10:28 AM
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Which is what I was trying to say.......maybe that isnt how she wants to handle the situation and maybe her dr. has advised her against it.


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  #6  
February 6th, 2007, 12:29 PM
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I second CShell.
I was in no hurry, with either of my children, to adjust them to MY schedule. I chose to have children and I have to make sacrifices, the least of which was sleep, to make sure that they are happy and healthy. I don't know what the methods used in the book were, but I see no need to have a 3 month old sleeping 12 hours a night. It was months before my son would sleep more than 3 hours in a stretch, but I always answer his needs. Even now, at 13months, there is the rare occassion he wakes up in the middle of the night, I still tend to him.

I don't see how it is healthy to start training a newborn to, not only, not eat for 12 hours, but to sleep that long.
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  #7  
February 6th, 2007, 05:50 PM
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to all.

12 hours at 12 weeks sounds like sleep training to me and it's not my cup of tea. At that age I don't think babies are really capable of going so long without food and to do so seems a bit cruel. As a parent I chose to bring this child into the world. It's my responsibility to see to their well being, and that means a few sacrafices on my part. My daughter is 6 months old and we're lucky if we get a 2 hour stretch at night. But thats who she is.
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  #8  
February 7th, 2007, 12:08 PM
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You know, every baby is different... Some are fine with sleeping through so early, but others aren't. My son is nearly 8 months, and still wakes up every two hours usually to eat. There's no way i could stop that (without being cruel and neglectful), because he IS definitely hungry that often. I think you just have to follow your individual child's cues, and pretty much go with what their schedule is rather than following some "program". If it worked for you then great... but don't judge others who don't follow it. You should share in your friend's celebration, as i know how AWESOME a 6 hour stretch would be for me right now, and i'm sure she's just as elated.
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  #9  
February 8th, 2007, 11:29 AM
Morwen's Avatar Regular
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Oh my... This is a prety touchy and personal subject I can see... I didn't mean to step on anyones toes... I was just wondering why you would prefer to have your household sleep deprived when there is a simple solution out there.

My mother was lucky I was sleeping through the night NATURALLY at 2 weeks old... My son was not forced and nor was I STARVING him... He was getting enough food during the day to get him through the night... .. I am stilll a good Mom, and it is still his schedule, he just knows the difference between daytime and night time...

But IMO you may be setting yourself up for some serious sleep issues down the road..

I have a friend whos daughter is 4yrs old and STILL doesn't sleep through the night, and she tells me all the time she wishes she knew about that book when her daughter was a baby because she has developed some really bad sleeping habits that are much harder to break now..

Make sure you are educated on sleep training before you knock it...

Its made my experience raising my son a very pleasant one...

~
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  #10  
February 8th, 2007, 11:58 AM
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Any technique with the word "training" in the title should not be used with an infant. But that is just my opnion. Infants should not be "trained" to do anything. We are parents should be trained to meet their needs until they can meet them themselves.


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  #11  
February 8th, 2007, 12:02 PM
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My niece was sleeping 12 hours NATURALLY at 8 weeks....My sister is lucky I believe...I wish Miranda would do that and she is almost 5 months...Every baby is different...
Sleep dep sucks...
Morwen--is it too late to get that book for me?
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  #12  
February 8th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Morwen's Avatar Regular
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Quote:
My niece was sleeping 12 hours NATURALLY at 8 weeks....My sister is lucky I believe...I wish Miranda would do that and she is almost 5 months...Every baby is different...
Sleep dep sucks...
Morwen--is it too late to get that book for me?[/b]
Not at all Mirandas Mom.. The book clearly states that you can use these tips and trick anytime you and your child are ready for a good nights sleep.

I bought mine at Indigo/Chapters, but I also know they carry it online at Amazon as well..

Good luck Miranda's Mom... Feel free to message me if you have any further questions I would be more than happy to answer!



~
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  #13  
February 8th, 2007, 12:16 PM
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I have to agree with Morwen, this book has been a lifesaver and has been my success to getting my 7.5 month old twins to sleep... It personally took my girls longer than 3 months as they were smaller and thus, took longer for them to be able to sleep thru (took them exactly 15 weeks, they were also a month premie so really corrected it was 11 weeks).. I have recommended this book to a few people and they have all had success with it..

A lot of posts seems to be against "making" your child sleep 12 hrs by 3 months, would you still be so defensive if the book was called "how to get 12 hrs sleep". I think we can all agree on one thing.. Sleep is precious. That first night of solid sleep is priceless. Yes, having children you make sacrifices, but why does putting yourself thru months or yrs in somecases like Morwens friend or my SIL have to be one of them??

There seems to be a lot of missunderstanding as well as to what the method of the book is...

Is getting your child on a 4 hour feeding schedule wrong?
Is slowly weening out nightime bottles (1/2 oz every 3 days) wrong?
Is soothing your child when they wake up without picking them up wrong?

These are just some of the methods they suggest in the book. They do not make you a bad mom or even cruel or even a mom who denies your child. I am an excellent mom to my twins, they are happy, healthy and my pediatrician is very happy in their progress and was completely supportive of the sleeping thru at such age.

Like Morwen said, don't knock it unless your educated about it.
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  #14  
February 8th, 2007, 12:18 PM
Morwen's Avatar Regular
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Quote:
Any technique with the word "training" in the title should not be used with an infant. But that is just my opnion. Infants should not be "trained" to do anything. We are parents should be trained to meet their needs until they can meet them themselves.


Casey[/b]
Actually I don't consider it sleep training... I was just using the terms used here on this board.

~
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  #15  
February 8th, 2007, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
I have to agree with Morwen, this book has been a lifesaver and has been my success to getting my 7.5 month old twins to sleep... It personally took my girls longer than 3 months as they were smaller and thus, took longer for them to be able to sleep thru (took them exactly 15 weeks, they were also a month premie so really corrected it was 11 weeks).. I have recommended this book to a few people and they have all had success with it..

A lot of posts seems to be against "making" your child sleep 12 hrs by 3 months, would you still be so defensive if the book was called "how to get 12 hrs sleep". I think we can all agree on one thing.. Sleep is precious. That first night of solid sleep is priceless. Yes, having children you make sacrifices, but why does putting yourself thru months or yrs in somecases like Morwens friend or my SIL have to be one of them??

There seems to be a lot of missunderstanding as well as to what the method of the book is...

Is getting your child on a 4 hour feeding schedule wrong?
Is slowly weening out nightime bottles (1/2 oz every 3 days) wrong?
Is soothing your child when they wake up without picking them up wrong?

These are just some of the methods they suggest in the book. They do not make you a bad mom or even cruel or even a mom who denies your child. I am an excellent mom to my twins, they are happy, healthy and my pediatrician is very happy in their progress and was completely supportive of the sleeping thru at such age.

Like Morwen said, don't knock it unless your educated about it.[/b]

yes, I find this to be "wrong". Some children NEED to eat more than every 4 hours. Most children I know who are on feeding scheldules fail to thrive. I think I need to step out of this debate before I say something really harsh.
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  #16  
February 8th, 2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
I have to agree with Morwen, this book has been a lifesaver and has been my success to getting my 7.5 month old twins to sleep... It personally took my girls longer than 3 months as they were smaller and thus, took longer for them to be able to sleep thru (took them exactly 15 weeks, they were also a month premie so really corrected it was 11 weeks).. I have recommended this book to a few people and they have all had success with it..

A lot of posts seems to be against "making" your child sleep 12 hrs by 3 months, would you still be so defensive if the book was called "how to get 12 hrs sleep". I think we can all agree on one thing.. Sleep is precious. That first night of solid sleep is priceless. Yes, having children you make sacrifices, but why does putting yourself thru months or yrs in somecases like Morwens friend or my SIL have to be one of them??

There seems to be a lot of missunderstanding as well as to what the method of the book is...

Is getting your child on a 4 hour feeding schedule wrong?
Is slowly weening out nightime bottles (1/2 oz every 3 days) wrong?
Is soothing your child when they wake up without picking them up wrong?

These are just some of the methods they suggest in the book. They do not make you a bad mom or even cruel or even a mom who denies your child. I am an excellent mom to my twins, they are happy, healthy and my pediatrician is very happy in their progress and was completely supportive of the sleeping thru at such age.

Like Morwen said, don't knock it unless your educated about it.[/b]

yes, I find this to be "wrong". Some children NEED to eat more than every 4 hours. Most children I know who are on feeding scheldules fail to thrive. I think I need to step out of this debate before I say something really harsh.
[/b]
interesting... children who are on a feeding schedule fail to thrive?? I have a friend who's son is 25lbs approx at 8 months, and he's scheduled, my twins are 16lbs and scheduled (i know 16lbs doesnt seem much but they are compared to a 6 month old and are at 75% of those kids)... I can see if you dont offer the child enough yes they wont make the 4 hour mark. My girls spent 8 days in the Neonatal intensive care unit when they were born because they were small and they were monitored to make sure they could stomache the BM/Formula... the nurses and drs there had them on a 3 hr schedule and told me, that i know they are getting enough if they can last 3 hours.. the same goes for 4 hours, if they are getting enough, they wont want to eat before then...
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  #17  
February 8th, 2007, 01:27 PM
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yes, I find this to be "wrong". Some children NEED to eat more than every 4 hours. Most children I know who are on feeding scheldules fail to thrive. I think I need to step out of this debate before I say something really harsh.
[/quote]

Why would you say something harsh? This is just a friendly debate amoungst women who are growing into their roles as Mommies.

We all raise our chilren the way WE think is right, there really is no right or wrong when raising a child as long as your child is happy, healthy and safe!

So if some choose to have a 4 hour feeding schedule for their children and that works for them and their kids are not suffering why would you feel as though you might say something harsh?

*shrug*

We are all equals here raising our children the best way we can, and we all have one thing in common, the love in our hearts.

~
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  #18  
February 8th, 2007, 01:28 PM
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If you feel the need to keep up with YOUR sleeping schedule, then don't have a baby. It is not an infant's responsiblity to conform to YOUR needs, it is YOUR responsibility (as a parent) to conform to theirs! If you don't want to feed an infant when an infant wants to eat, then don't have an infant. If you don't want to wake up and tend to your infant when they wake up every few hours, then don't have an infant. Why anyone would deny their baby a basic need, food, to get a little more sleep is beyond me. I am not saying you are "starving" your children, but you are not addressing their needs when they need them met, you are addressing them when it is convenient to you. Any type of sleep training before 6 months is irresponsible and, dare I say, bordering on neglectful.

Quote:
I was just wondering why you would prefer to have your household sleep deprived when there is a simple solution out there.[/b]
Because, I chose to have a baby, I chose the sacrifices that come with that responsibility.

Quote:
he just knows the difference between daytime and night time...[/b]
he just knows that his cries are unanswered, and he learned to give up.

Quote:
But IMO you may be setting yourself up for some serious sleep issues down the road..[/b]
My 5 year old was never sleep trained or left to CIO, and she has never had any sleep issues. I think you are setting yourself up with some serious security issues.

Quote:
Its made my experience raising my son a very pleasant one...[/b]
Raising children is not always supposed to be pleasant.

Quote:
A lot of posts seems to be against "making" your child sleep 12 hrs by 3 months, would you still be so defensive if the book was called "how to get 12 hrs sleep".[/b]
It should be called "how to get 12 hours sleep", this is all about the parent's need not the child's.
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  #19  
February 8th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Morwen's Avatar Regular
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Quote:
If you feel the need to keep up with YOUR sleeping schedule, then don't have a baby. It is not an infant's responsiblity to conform to YOUR needs, it is YOUR responsibility (as a parent) to conform to theirs! If you don't want to feed an infant when an infant wants to eat, then don't have an infant. If you don't want to wake up and tend to your infant when they wake up every few hours, then don't have an infant. Why anyone would deny their baby a basic need, food, to get a little more sleep is beyond me. I am not saying you are "starving" your children, but you are not addressing their needs when they need them met, you are addressing them when it is convenient to you. Any type of sleep training before 6 months is irresponsible and, dare I say, bordering on neglectful.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
I was just wondering why you would prefer to have your household sleep deprived when there is a simple solution out there.[/b]
Because, I chose to have a baby, I chose the sacrifices that come with that responsibility.

Quote:
he just knows the difference between daytime and night time...[/b]
he just knows that his cries are unanswered, and he learned to give up.

Quote:
But IMO you may be setting yourself up for some serious sleep issues down the road..[/b]
My 5 year old was never sleep trained or left to CIO, and she has never had any sleep issues. I think you are setting yourself up with some serious security issues.

Quote:
Its made my experience raising my son a very pleasant one...[/b]
Raising children is not always supposed to be pleasant.

Quote:
A lot of posts seems to be against "making" your child sleep 12 hrs by 3 months, would you still be so defensive if the book was called "how to get 12 hrs sleep".[/b]
It should be called "how to get 12 hours sleep", this is all about the parent's need not the child's.
[/b][/quote]

Have you actually read the book???? Do you actually know what it all about?

And for the record that is NOT what this book is about!!!

I have NEVER neglected my child nor have I ever let his cries go unanswered and for you to insinuate this without knowing me or my child is ridiculous actually!

And I am seriously offended that you suggest that my son may have security issues. I am here for my son more than most Moms are there for their children, and I take my parenting responsiblities very seriously.

Why are you so judgemental over the way I have choosen to raise my son? Why do you think your way is right and mine is wrong?

Why do you have to be so defensive and judgemental in your replies? Constructive critisim is easier to digest and I am more apt to actually listen to it if it is intelligently written.

So much for this being a Fluffy topic...!!!

All I was trying to get was an understanding of the other side of this topic, and all I have gotten here so far is quite the heated argument.

If anyone wishes to discuss this intelligently with me without pointing fingers and calling me a bad mother please feel free to message me.

~
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  #20  
February 8th, 2007, 02:10 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar I'm climbin' in yo window
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Quote:
Have you actually read the book???? Do you actually know what it all about?[/b]
No, but judging by the title 12 Hours of Sleep by 12 Weeks Old , I get the jist.
Quote:
And for the record that is NOT what this book is about!!![/b]
The book is not about getting your infant to sleep 12 hours by 12 weeks old?

Quote:
I have NEVER neglected my child nor have I ever let his cries go unanswered and for you to insinuate this without knowing me or my child is ridiculous actually![/b]
Sleep training and food training an infant is not necessary, it only holds benefits for the parent.

Quote:
And I am seriously offended that you suggest that my son may have security issues. I am here for my son more than most Moms are there for their children, and I take my parenting responsiblities very seriously.[/b]
Oh, but it is fine for you to suggest that my child will have sleep issues because I don't use your method? Let me refresh your memory:
Quote:
But IMO you may be setting yourself up for some serious sleep issues down the road..[/b]
Quote:
Why are you so judgemental over the way I have choosen to raise my son? Why do you think your way is right and mine is wrong?[/b]
Why are you questioning your friends lack of interest in your method? Why do you think your way is right and hers is wrong?
Quote:
Why do you have to be so defensive and judgemental in your replies?[/b]
I am not being defensive, you are. I am stating my opinion on sleep training an infant, I just don't see the necessity. I don't see any benefit for the infant.


Quote:
If anyone wishes to discuss this intelligently with me without pointing fingers and calling me a bad mother please feel free to message me.[/b]
I am NOT calling you a bad mother, I don't have any doubt that you love your child. I am just stating that, IMO, sleep training methods being used at such a young age are not healthy.
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