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-   -   a good point made... (http://www.justmommies.com/forums/f32-homeschooling/581242-good-point-made.html)

~~~Sue~~~ May 21st, 2007 08:39 PM

ok, My family says more power to me and they are really glad i have the oppertunity to correct the wrong in my child's life with the p/s system. However my father made a good point today and i was wondering what you guys thought of it. He said in some of his research he has found many hs end up leaving college due to the fact they dont really know how to really deal with the teachers. they are so accustome to their parent (usually mother) way of doing things and know what to expect and stuff they just are shocked when having to deal with a teacher who may not be the same way... he suggested when she hits jr.high, high school level to have others besides myself teach her so she experiences other "teacher" and teacher ways...

At first i was upset thinking he was not on my side but after thinking about it he had good intentions and like i said he does agree i have done the right thing but wants to make sure we cont. to do the right thing for her future college and stuff... any way have any of you heard or thought about this idea? I guess a well rounded child is what we are all thriving for which to me would include putting up with people we may not like, or agree with but knowing how to function anyway... does that make sence? I sort of agree with him but i will worry about that later she is only in 3rd grade:) but wanted to hear some of your thoughts!
sue

joandsarah77 May 21st, 2007 09:01 PM

I've never really thought about it. Also I would like to know were your father got this research from. I have not read anything about homeschool grads leaving college like he suggests.
I really hope by high school age that I am not my childís teacher but rather their facilitator. Helping them as needed to find the resources they need. Colleges as far as I know don't really have teacherís just lectures. As to providing other teachers that happens as you enrol your kids in extras like dance, gym, piano etc.

MissyPrincessEha May 21st, 2007 10:04 PM

My husband and I found that funny. :lol:

If your child is out and about and learning and growing even when away from home we don't see that as an issue. Now Mattmos had friends that were homeschooled and not really allowed out of the house much at all. They had a hard time with getting out and into group things like extra stuff. But he says they did well once they started. He says they were very proper and had a different sense of humor than most. That made it hard to be with the normal schooled bunch. But isn't that what happens anyway in homeschool? :lol: I am reading a HUGE book by Gatto called "The Underground History of American Education". In this book he outlines the childhoods and lives of important men, men who built our country. This was exciting as I had always brought them up to my husband in this respect.

If you send your child to a structured, fit all high school and the teacher is teaching them all the same, you might have some problems with a child that was schooled free and was taught to think and work on their own. This is because these children are broken and pounded into the mold so to speak at an early age and if they can't mold they are labeled with some such nonsense or other. They need help. :lol:

If you look at Edison, Washington, Lincoln, etc. You will find that they were running and shaping their own lives and fortunes by the age of 10-12! If you read up on them they were flunked out of schools because they were bucking the system so to speak. Edison, after leaving school, would print up papers in the back of a train car and sell it for like 25cents. It was about the news on the war. He could get it out in record speed and he earned ALOT of money doing this. No one told him to do this, he did it himself. He taught himself by trial and error. And as a start to his lightbulb, well he had phosphorus and he made a wee bit of an explosion in that train car! :lol: He was 12 years old, making 25 percent more than the average school teacher of the day.

Children (not just homeschooled) who are free to explore and learn and read anything (even if we think they can't understand it) they can find will grow into free thinkers. But it doesn't mean that free thinkers and someone who is well learned can't do well in college. In fact, they do well! For some it must be hard to listen to some dude go on and on and on about something they could have probably taught themselves in middle school....but they are smart....they know they need a credit to get to that degree they so want. :lol:

I know that I would not like college. I took one of my classes for my midwifery schooling and it was horrible. I learned a handful of things that yes will help me...but I could have read the book and learned even more on my own. I feel it is a waste of my money and time. BUT, I needed that credit. See...smart...I got my credit. :lol:

Matthew and I know plenty of homeschool graduates that are in college and out. They did well!

Have you heard Heather's story on here? She was something else as a young homeschool graduate....maybe she will share that story with you.

What I am trying to get at is that in a homeschool a child can learn to the moon! There are no tops on the jars of what he can learn. If you look at our founding fathers you would see them doing college level stuff in the early teens. And this is after years of unschooling. They would finally find the need for this info and teach themselves! Heck, even early schools of the day wouldn't take you if you couldn't read, write, and do simple math. They considered that easy and every child should know it! Today, that is considered HARD! I can't tell you how many parents beg me for a secret to my kids reading success. I tutor one of those kids. She was going to fail, in a months time of working together she will pass her grade. We spent 10-20 minutes a day together and she is passing!

Yes, it may be harder for a homeschooled kid to go out and find his way in a world of people educated the same and who need constant supervision and direction. But they can do it. This is because they can problem solve and run their own business if they so need too. They don't need constant supervision and direction. Being schooled in a free way will grow minds like Lincoln and the others! Of course they will have to break down some walls in their lives. But doesn't everyone at some point?

And what about those kids in ps who never make it to graduation? Scores of kids don't even make it college, they are bored and tired and turned off to learning before they can even start their lives. Every homeschool graduate I know is in college. Matt knows a few who aren't, but again they are running their own business. :lol:

Sorry, I am very passionate about this! :)

LuvEmm May 22nd, 2007 12:21 AM

I don't find this to be a true statistic being a homeschooled child myself. I went to college and am still going to college. So are my siblings. The only problem I had with professors is more of the fact that I was so used to self education it was different to listen to someone else. Though parents help mold and teach their kids, most homeschoolers end up being the masters of their education and become self educated. This is a big reason why many universities like homeschoolers, they know how to study and learn on their own because they have been doing it for years. Thus requiring less of the professors as far as help and tutoring. It might be different to have a professor and someone else teaching, but I soon found I learned more by my own study anyway.

Its true that the biggest difference with homeschoolers is that though college is great (I am still trying to pursue my degree even if I get it well into my 30's) they don't see their learning as a piece of paper. I don't see my striving for a degree as this thing I have to quickly do and I don't ever feel that my homeschool is done. I learn all the time. I teach myself and it isn't true that homeschoolers can't handle professors. My brother is headed to med school, my sister is attending a private university going into art- though taking a few semesters off to live in China twice, Ukraine and Russia- and my other sister is doing the same as I am, being a mom and continuing to learn.

Shery May 22nd, 2007 05:28 AM

LuvEmm, you are a true inspiration to us all....you and your entire family! Thanks for the note.

*Sharon* May 22nd, 2007 05:49 AM

I would like to see the research on it. I cannot image that the college drop out rate for hs'ers is any higher than for ps'ers.

Like Heather, I too was a early hs grad. I didn't start college as young as Heather, but I did finish hs by the time I was 16 and started college full-time at that point. I was in the Honors Program right from the start, had scholarships, graduated with highest honors. I was a peer advisor as well. And in the Honors Program one student and one professor are the head of the Honors Committee that selects/develops courses and such and I was the Student Coordinator for my last 2 years (one I graduated my younger sister became the the Student Coordinator actually). The Valedictorian the year before I graduated was hs'd all the way through. All of my sisters who were hs'd went to college: 1--is a journalist and teaches at a university herself now; 2--has her Masters and a fantastic career; 3--has her Bachelor's and has a great career as well. We all did excellent in college. 3 of us were in Honors Programs. 1 wasn't by choice...she chose not to be because she was already very busy...editor of the school paper, on the student senate, peer advisor, tutor....

Butter May 22nd, 2007 06:00 AM

What research is he talking about? I'm guessing he's actually pulling this "research" out of thin air. I did a google and came up with nothing except something from the national education association (notoriously anti homeschooling) about how not following the NCLB stuff our homeschooled kids are destined to be failures (uh, sure...). Otherwise absolutely nothing.


As a homeschooled kid/homeschooling mom I have known lots of kids who went to college, myself included. I cannot think of any that dropped out. However,
1 in 3 college enrollees drop out. I know 2 that attended public school and one that attended private school that dropped out after a year (my father, my mother, and my husband, though my husband is going back to college now... and my brother, public schooled all the way through, was invited not to come back after his first year, though he changed his major and ended up getting a PhD and now teaches college lol). If 1/3 of all college enrollees drop out, then sending them to pucblic school certainly doesn't guarantee anything about college success.

Butter May 22nd, 2007 06:06 AM

My story isn't very exciting, really. I started taking college courses at 14 (independent study via mail and at the community college). At 16 I was taking classes full time. At 17 I met my husband in one of those classes lol I got my nursing degree just after I turned 21, the youngest graduate ever from that particular program. I also had the most credits of any nursing degree graduate ever. I took a lot of classes I didn't have to but because I wanted to and I found them interesting. Playwriting, mythology, etc.

MissyPrincessEha May 22nd, 2007 08:47 AM

I knew our homeschooled mamas would put in some GREAT words. :)

~hsingtreehouse~ May 22nd, 2007 09:04 AM

I totally disagree with the research...even if it is something he read somewhere else. I think, if anything else, homeschooled children are more likely to succeed in college because they have formed a wonderful relationship with their parents over the years and they will still have their parent's support through college years.

On a side note, the guy I dated in highschool was Valedictorian of our class. He scored a 32 on his ACT and never made a "B" in his LIFE. However, he got to college and realized that he had to STUDY for the first time in his life in order to keep making A's. His parents pushed him like you wouldn't believe and he dropped out and became a drug addict. He wasn't challenged in life - he never understood the true meaning of learning - he just was always taught to be the best, win the most awards, make the best grades, and to heck with real life. The shock he got sent him running. Now, at 28, I think he finally has earned his degree - with all A's of course.

MissyPrincessEha May 22nd, 2007 09:17 AM

:lol: That story makes me want to laugh and cry all at the same time! Wow!

~~~Sue~~~ May 22nd, 2007 10:34 AM

didnt mean to stir it up in here just asking if anyone had heard such a thing... I dont know where his "research" came from and I am sure he had my dd's best interest in heart and like i said he is a wonderful man who just wants his kids/grandkids to be happy and successful in what ever path they choose. I usually take that kind of information with a grain of salt cause as i told him that thought went against every bit of research i had come across during my deciding weather to hs or not.... But I thought possibly my information was biased because i was doing research on why to and how to and success stories and stuff like that so i thought it could have been biased information about pro hs you know!
sorry to get people in a frinzy, but thanks for the information!
sue

~hsingtreehouse~ May 22nd, 2007 10:54 AM

Definitely a sad story (and I laugh at it too!), but it really has taught me to not do that to my kids. My oldest son is in PS because he loves it and is thriving. He will NOT be there after 6th grade because I will not send him to a public school in middle and high - he will have a choice of private christian school or homeschool. He knows Scotty is homeschooling and he keeps telling me "but mommy, I have to go to regular school so I can win my awards!" OKAY! The story above scares the pants off me when I think of my baby getting all caught up in awards. SOOOOOOO.....I am going to get trophies for my Scotty at the end of the year - hard worker, "best homeschooled boy on earth"...LOL If awards motivate kids, then awards they will get. But I am not going to base it on him Being the best....just so long as he is DOING his best! :) Hopefully, Bryce will see these awards and decided...hey...homeschooling is cool too! Oh, a girl can dream, can't she.

Totally off topic, I know.

Miguelsmommy May 22nd, 2007 02:45 PM

In college right now myself there are some teachers that you just don't get along with. The problem is most student don't they can switch out of those classes. Students also need to learn to ASK other students who they liked and why. They also need to use office hours not only for help with there work but question that have to do with more info then class and advisers for future classes. I think many are discouraged because a lot of teachers talk down to the student and have a holier then thou attitude. If there's issues they need to talk to the teacher. If a teacher knows you by name, face and knows your trying you'll most likely pass with a high C+ or higher no matter what. These are the main thing people don't know that makes them leave college Whether public schooled or home schooled. It's only three hours a class a week anyway.

The story happens a lot because learning in high school and learning in college are different. High school does not prepare for college. If you are really concerned I would call colleges and ask how to better prepare your kids for college.

joandsarah77 May 22nd, 2007 04:54 PM

Quote:

didnt mean to stir it up in here just asking if anyone had heard such a thing... I dont know where his "research" came from and I am sure he had my dd's best interest in heart and like i said he is a wonderful man who just wants his kids/grandkids to be happy and successful in what ever path they choose. I usually take that kind of information with a grain of salt cause as i told him that thought went against every bit of research i had come across during my deciding weather to hs or not.... But I thought possibly my information was biased because i was doing research on why to and how to and success stories and stuff like that so i thought it could have been biased information about pro hs you know!
sorry to get people in a frinzy, but thanks for the information![/b]
Don't worry about it. I don't think we are in a Frinzy, well I'm not. You can ask anything here.

LuvEmm May 22nd, 2007 05:24 PM

Quote:

LuvEmm, you are a true inspiration to us all....you and your entire family! Thanks for the note.[/b]

Oh, thanks that's really sweet to say. :blush: Sadly, because of my parents divorce the other half will not get the same experience I had and are now in a single parent, working mom home and attending public school. :( It has to be done for some people, just wish my own siblings could have had what I did.

*Sharon* May 22nd, 2007 06:41 PM

Quote:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:

didnt mean to stir it up in here just asking if anyone had heard such a thing... I dont know where his "research" came from and I am sure he had my dd's best interest in heart and like i said he is a wonderful man who just wants his kids/grandkids to be happy and successful in what ever path they choose. I usually take that kind of information with a grain of salt cause as i told him that thought went against every bit of research i had come across during my deciding weather to hs or not.... But I thought possibly my information was biased because i was doing research on why to and how to and success stories and stuff like that so i thought it could have been biased information about pro hs you know!
sorry to get people in a frinzy, but thanks for the information![/b]
Don't worry about it. I don't think we are in a Frinzy, well I'm not. You can ask anything here.
[/b][/quote]

lol! Totally not in a frinzy here! I don't frinzy easily! ;) :P I am sure your father was very well-intentioned.

MissyPrincessEha May 22nd, 2007 08:13 PM

Awww, you just happened to ask some of the most passionate women on earth to share about what they LOVE and WORK hard to do. :) We can get a little excited....

joandsarah77 May 22nd, 2007 08:25 PM

Quote:

We can get a little excited....[/b]
Lol http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ons/omgosh.gif http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...smiley-017.gif http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...lissysmile.gif http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...OHAaFun048.gif Yes just a little...

Butter May 23rd, 2007 05:17 AM

LOL but, no, not in a frinzy. I'd actually be very interested to know you your father would say if you asked him where this research he has done is from. I'd also be curious to know if he realizes that 1 in 3 of all college enrollees drop out and the majority of those dropouts were public schooled.


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