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GamerMom September 26th, 2013 02:38 PM

These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Here's an article I was after reading that literally made my stomach turn and my heart break for this little boy. His parents gave this 23 month old boy methadone before he eventually died of an overdose. He was also given this drug numerous times before he passed away.

Maybe some of you ladies would like to read it. However, it's really sad and heartbreaking.

Drug addict parents gave 23-month-old son methadone 'like Calpol' before he died of overdose | Mail Online

Jessifer September 26th, 2013 03:52 PM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
The jail sentences are a real joke! If the UK is anything like here in Canada, they will probably serve half of their sentence and be out on the streets breeding again, bringing even more unfortunate children into this world.

It's sad to see things like this happen, especially since in this case there would have been many opportunities for someone to intervene and help this child. Surely many people saw that this child was being neglected yet everyone stood in silence and failed to report it.

Kiam September 26th, 2013 03:53 PM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Personally, I have a pet peeve regarding the whole "these people should never have been parents" mobs (no offense intended, this isn't designed to be an attack on you GamerMom, it's a very inbuilt reaction that we have).

I think, in this circumstance particularly, so much fell through here. Yes the parents are at fault, but does anyone trust the judgement of drug addicts? They don't exactly make the wisest decisions. This comment in particular by the prosecutor, "They were drug addicts whose need for drugs came before Jayden-Lee." is ridiculous. D-U-H. That's kind of the point of addiction.
The parents were being prescribed methodone, a controlled substance that weans you off heroin, in order to get it you need to attend a rehabilitation clinic, why were child services not contacted by the rehab staff?
The report also says that they often took him to the pub in a terrible state, why were child services not contacted by the people who were so happy to give these reports after his death, where were they when they could have done something?

Whenever one of these situations happen, the comments section of the article is very telling, and here we have all the armchair commentators (some of which clearly have no reading comprehension skills if they think that the mother got less jail time because she is female), yelling out the typical "sterilise them" type nonsense (oh and the comment about the photo with the dirty top, yes because all toddlers with food on them are being abused, because toddlers are great at the whole plate to mouth thing).

You know what I don't see? People calling for more funding for child services, a heavily under-funded government program that could have saved him. I don't see people calling for funding for in-patient treatment of methodone, a private program program that SHOULD be public, privatisation of rehabilitation is a joke, generally most addicts do not have the money for in-patient rehabilitation so the cycle continues. That's something else that could have saved this little boy's life, if his parents got the treatment that they needed.

That's just two solutions. But there will never be mobs of people demanding these things because it would mean a tiny little increase on taxes, and as we have learned, people don't like their cents going to help people. There are millions of children in this little boy's position that can be saved, but no one can actually say that they care unless they are willing to put their money where their mouth (or keyboard) is.

GamerMom September 27th, 2013 05:52 AM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Don't worry Kiam, I am not taking that as a personal attack on what I said. And I agree with you when you say that it's a built in reaction. However, if people ahead of time knew these two were drug addicts then as soon as this woman became pregnant their should have been concerns. Major concerns. And if anything, they should have been monitored to make sure that this boy would get everything he needed and his necessities would be met. If at all, I would make sure these two didn't become parents.

And obviously I was never a drug addict so I can't say it would have been easy for them to just "give up" their addiction because realistically I know that's very unlikely. However, as a mother even wouldn't you at least TRY and be a good parent to your child? Make some sacrifices? If you choose to take part in drugs and alcohol, then why not try to make better choices for your child. For instance, instead of taking him to the bars with you, hire a babysitter. Yes, mind you they might not be able to afford it but even if they had a friend or family who wouldn't mind. Better your child safe than being lug around. If you couldn't find a babysitter than stay at home!

If I was that mother or father I would probably still take the drugs (if I was that addicted to it) but try to take just enough to keep the withdrawal away. That way I was still somewhat capable of at least caring for the child.

This is all "if I was" though. I understand that this might not be a realistic depending on how addicted and how much they were taking. It's not simply easy to "cut back" but then again, babies come with sacrifices as we all know.

I think the comment about the stains on the suit was more so to comment on how the baby had methadone on his shirt proving he was fed the drug, not so much that he spits up. And I agree with the whole idea that people thinking she got less jail time because she was a woman is stupid. Though I do think she should have gotten more, both of them. What they did was murder. Not saying they meant to do it but they gave a child a higher dose of a drug he shouldn't have been given in the first place. Therefore he overdosed and died because of that. Murder charges should have been placed and longer sentences should have been given.

Kiam September 27th, 2013 03:05 PM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Methadone is typically green, so I still think it would have been food on his shirt.

With all due respect, you would have done absolutely none of those things because with use over time comes tolerance, which means that you need a larger dose in order to get the same effects, if you are at a point where you are getting withdrawal symptoms you need to be high to 'survive', and as your body is tolerant to the drug, you need larger doses. Once you are drug dependent a child isn't going to be your first priority, because a child isn't going to give you that edge, to be honest a child would exacerbate withdrawal.
To say that you would hire a babysitter, limit your intake and so on makes no sense because it goes completely against what chemical dependency does to your mind and body.

By definition, it was not murder, the father was guilty of manslaughter (not the mother as she did not administer the lethal dose), the definitions of manslaughter vary between jurisdictions but the father's intention was not to kill his son, 'murder' is heavily mis-used in everyday speech, in order for someone to be convicted of murder there has to have been intent to kill, the father's intent was not to kill his son, it was to make him go to sleep, therefore, it was in no way murder. I believe that UK is still one of the countries that have infanticide as a sub-category of manslaughter (someone please correct me if I am wrong) where a parent kills their child due to unstable state of mind. Drug addiction causes an unstable state.

GamerMom September 30th, 2013 06:27 AM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
That's kind of the point I am making. I would TRY, not that I would be able to do these things. And you might be right, I may never be able to do it but that would prove my point that they shouldn't be parents. Or at least they shouldn't have been allowed to keep the child.

And I'm not trying to pick a fight here, just a friendly debate but you can't say that I would have done none of these things. Think about all kinds of people who are in the same situation and had overcome it? There's always a point where someone can say, "You know what? I am done. I am turning my life around." I know of friends who have gone so far down that path that I thought they would never come back out of it. But they did. It took a long time, patience and seeing a few doctors and specialists but they did it. Now they have families of their own. Probably be more realistic if I said I would try it throughout the years because I know it's not something that would be fixed right away.

Yes, you may need a high dose to survive if you have gotten that far in with the drugs but again, people have been in that situation and have gotten back out have they not? If anything I would think a baby on the way would be that one thing to convince me to pull through the rough nights and days and push forward to make a better life for him/her.

And the whole "murder" thing. The mother didn't give the killing dose however the article says that they are not sure if that one dose was the reason the boy died or if the small doses over time along with that one large dose did it. Meaning, the mother could have assisted in the death of her son along with the father. In my opinion, they are both guilty. Though if you are not in your right mind that might make a difference in the law books but it shouldn't be a excuse for them to get away with it. If that was the case, we would have a lot more stories like this one.

And off topic, you seem to know a lot about the drug methadone. Did you do any nursing or pharmacy studies, psychology or do you just do a lot of research? I am just wondering because debating this article has actually been interesting I must say. lol. I would do a few debates in school but nothing major and didn't get far with it though I enjoyed it. And you seem to know your stuff which is better than just rhyming stuff out hoping to get the better edge of the debate.

Kiam September 30th, 2013 11:13 AM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Used to volunteer at a methadone clinic :)

Gini_3boys October 1st, 2013 05:04 PM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
I'll go ahead and say it...those people shouldn't have been parents. Because of them that poor baby is dead. 9 and 4 years is a joke. It's almost as though excuses are being made for the parents. Somehow it's everyone else's fault for them not getting help and eventually their son dying. Drug addicts can be given many chances to be helped and never take it or relapse over and over. While drug addiction is very sad and horrible it still doesn't take away from the fact that these parents failed their child in the worse way possible.

NinjaCakes October 4th, 2013 03:12 AM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Sigh. This didn't end up being the article I thought it was based on the threat title, but it is no better.

GamerMom October 4th, 2013 05:52 AM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!

Originally Posted by NinjaCakes (Post 27701614)
Sigh. This didn't end up being the article I thought it was based on the threat title, but it is no better.

What article were you referring to? Do you have a link for it?

jl046100 October 5th, 2013 05:35 PM

Re: These two should have never been given the chance to be parents!!!!!
Lurking from the May ddc these things make me so mad and may seem like a black and white view those parents were adults that poor child had no choice but to live that life and be neglected on a daily basis I don't care what ur problems are no child deserves to suffer like that they were his parents they should have at least keep him safe or gave him to social services where he at least stood a chance there's many people who try for yrs for a child and they put this wee boy thrgh hell his short life must have been miserable they deserve to rot in prison for what they done and never be allowed children again this sort of thing breaks my heart and happens far to often

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