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  #1  
October 27th, 2008, 08:27 AM
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This article is a little old, but I wanted to share it wtih all you debating mommies and get your input - do you agree or disagree?

Men's Abortion Rights: What Will They Think of Next?
By Sherrie L. Porter, Communication Intern
January 18, 2008

The religious right has fought hard to chip away at women's rights and personal freedoms for decades. Over the years, we have faced a range of attempts – some successful - to take away a woman's control over her body. Men's abortions rights, the newest disturbing trend in the battle to undermine Roe v Wade, claims that men are "victims" of abortion.

The idea of male victims stems from the concept of "post-abortion syndrome" -- a nonscientific term coined in the 1980s by abortion opponents who claim that women experience psychological trauma after terminating a pregnancy. While there are no long-term, credible research studies, proponents of this creatively named "condition" claim it leads to depression in women, as well as alcoholism and drug addiction.

In a recent Los Angeles Times piece, "Changing Abortion's Pronoun," writer Stephanie Simon sees the political calculation behind the curtain: "Abortion is one of the most common surgeries in the country, with more than 1 million performed a year; while some who chose the procedure surely come to regret it, doctors say they see no epidemic of trauma in either men or women."

Despite the lack of evidence for post-abortion syndrome in either gender, anti-abortion advocates suggest "lost fatherhood" can lead to domestic violence and an addiction to sex. Both claims seem to suggest a rationale for men behaving badly. Men, they suggest, experience symptoms of post-abortion syndrome equally if not more powerfully than women. Male victims throughout the country are sharing stories of "their abortions." In November, anti-abortion activists met in San Francisco for what they boasted was "the first ever conference on the effects of abortion on men."

In the movement for men's abortion rights, Ohio legislators are attempting to make headway. Ohio house bill 287, seeks to give a man the legal right to decide whether or not the woman he impregnates should get an abortion and would make it mandatory for all women to have the written consent of "the father of the fetus" before she can go forward with the procedure. Under the same legislation, rape and incest victims would need a police report to "prove" they need an abortion. As for a woman who does not know (or doesn't want to reveal) who the man is, she would be unable to elect the procedure. Anyone, including doctors, who violate the bill would be guilty of "abortion fraud" and charged with a misdemeanor.

"If a woman wishes to include a man in her decision about whether or not to continue a pregnancy, she may do so. But the state cannot mandate that she do so," said NOW President Kim Gandy. "Requiring a 'permission slip' for abortion would mock the right guaranteed in Roe v. Wade."

Ohio HB 287 was introduced by Republican State Rep. John Adams in July 2007 and now sits at the desk of the House Health Committee. While it is unlikely that the bill will set sail--due to a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it is not Constitutional--NOW activists are working across the country to fight the continual assaults on women's reproductive autonomy.

"What the extremists really want is an end to all abortion and birth control, severely restricting the personal, medical decisions of every woman in the U.S.," said NOW Action Vice President Melody Drnach. "While we will fight this legislation and every other attempt to deny our reproductive rights, we will not take our eyes off of the very real and dangerous fight that these extremists are waging against women."

IMO it should be up to the woman herself in every situation to make this decision on her own. It's her body, her choice. Yes, it would be the father's baby too, but the woman is the one who will go through the physical and emotional changes of pregnancy and becoming a mother. It's flat out not right to give someone else, no matter what their potential role - the power to decide what a woman should and shouldn't do with her body.

JMO of course. WDYT?
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  #2  
October 28th, 2008, 10:18 AM
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Let me just preface this by saying that I am pro-life.
While I think that the father should have a voice in the matter of an abortion, I don't think it should be a necessity for a woman to have written consent from the father before having an abortion. I certainly think it's very sad if a woman should choose to have an abortion without informing her partner and letting them have a say in it, I don't think it should be forced for them to do so. Especially if the pregnancy is a result of a one night stand or something where the mother and father have no relationship.
Yes, the woman is the one who has to go through the pregnancy, but the child (and I believe it's a child from conception) belongs to the father also.
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  #3  
October 28th, 2008, 12:55 PM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
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Quote:
This article is a little old, but I wanted to share it wtih all you debating mommies and get your input - do you agree or disagree?

Men's Abortion Rights: What Will They Think of Next?
By Sherrie L. Porter, Communication Intern
January 18, 2008

The religious right has fought hard to chip away at women's rights and personal freedoms for decades. Over the years, we have faced a range of attempts – some successful - to take away a woman's control over her body. Men's abortions rights, the newest disturbing trend in the battle to undermine Roe v Wade, claims that men are "victims" of abortion.

The idea of male victims stems from the concept of "post-abortion syndrome" -- a nonscientific term coined in the 1980s by abortion opponents who claim that women experience psychological trauma after terminating a pregnancy. While there are no long-term, credible research studies, proponents of this creatively named "condition" claim it leads to depression in women, as well as alcoholism and drug addiction.

In a recent Los Angeles Times piece, "Changing Abortion's Pronoun," writer Stephanie Simon sees the political calculation behind the curtain: "Abortion is one of the most common surgeries in the country, with more than 1 million performed a year; while some who chose the procedure surely come to regret it, doctors say they see no epidemic of trauma in either men or women."

Despite the lack of evidence for post-abortion syndrome in either gender, anti-abortion advocates suggest "lost fatherhood" can lead to domestic violence and an addiction to sex. Both claims seem to suggest a rationale for men behaving badly. Men, they suggest, experience symptoms of post-abortion syndrome equally if not more powerfully than women. Male victims throughout the country are sharing stories of "their abortions." In November, anti-abortion activists met in San Francisco for what they boasted was "the first ever conference on the effects of abortion on men."

In the movement for men's abortion rights, Ohio legislators are attempting to make headway. Ohio house bill 287, seeks to give a man the legal right to decide whether or not the woman he impregnates should get an abortion and would make it mandatory for all women to have the written consent of "the father of the fetus" before she can go forward with the procedure. Under the same legislation, rape and incest victims would need a police report to "prove" they need an abortion. As for a woman who does not know (or doesn't want to reveal) who the man is, she would be unable to elect the procedure. Anyone, including doctors, who violate the bill would be guilty of "abortion fraud" and charged with a misdemeanor.

"If a woman wishes to include a man in her decision about whether or not to continue a pregnancy, she may do so. But the state cannot mandate that she do so," said NOW President Kim Gandy. "Requiring a 'permission slip' for abortion would mock the right guaranteed in Roe v. Wade."

Ohio HB 287 was introduced by Republican State Rep. John Adams in July 2007 and now sits at the desk of the House Health Committee. While it is unlikely that the bill will set sail--due to a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it is not Constitutional--NOW activists are working across the country to fight the continual assaults on women's reproductive autonomy.

"What the extremists really want is an end to all abortion and birth control, severely restricting the personal, medical decisions of every woman in the U.S.," said NOW Action Vice President Melody Drnach. "While we will fight this legislation and every other attempt to deny our reproductive rights, we will not take our eyes off of the very real and dangerous fight that these extremists are waging against women."

IMO it should be up to the woman herself in every situation to make this decision on her own. It's her body, her choice. Yes, it would be the father's baby too, but the woman is the one who will go through the physical and emotional changes of pregnancy and becoming a mother. It's flat out not right to give someone else, no matter what their potential role - the power to decide what a woman should and shouldn't do with her body.

JMO of course. WDYT?[/b]

Well, I completely disagree with you because I am pro-life and I think the unborn child has just as much of a right to life as the mother. But I wanted to ask you about the your statment that I bolded above. We have many laws that tell people what they can and cannot do with their body. Are you against seatbelt laws, laws against drug use, laws against prostitution, helmet laws?? I'm assuming you are but I just want to be sure you are being consistant. So many people make statements like the one you made but when it comes down to it, you realize they aren't really being honest and rather trying to make a strong pro-choice statement.
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  #4  
October 28th, 2008, 03:40 PM
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Well Margaret....you and I seem to disagree on everything , and that's OK because we're all entitled to our own opinions. You're very very traditional - and you have every right to be that way, but it's not for everyone. But from this point forward I'll simply agree to disagree with you. And I actually think prostitution should be made legal. But I won't get into my reasoning b/c that could open a whole other can of worms. Using seatbelts and wearing helmets are in a completely different league than someone making decisions about another woman's reproductive system. That's all I'm going to say. We're all entitled to our own beliefs.
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  #5  
October 29th, 2008, 01:09 AM
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Are you against seatbelt laws, laws against drug use, laws against prostitution, helmet laws??[/b]
Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes. If people want to kill themselves and any entity that may occupy their body, that's their right.
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  #6  
October 29th, 2008, 10:24 AM
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I know MANY women who've had abortions, I know NO man who's been upset about it.

I don't think a woman should have to have a man's permission to have an abortion, because there are times when the man is going to be unknown (aka unsolved rape).

Every day I become more and more pro-life, and I find that upsetting. lol. However, it is MY body, I want to be able do do what I want to MY body. If want to pierce it, I'm going to pierce it. if I want to put ink on it, I'm going to put ink on it. If I want to get pregnant, great! If I don't want to, should I be deinied the pleasure of sex because birth control doesn't work? Nope.

I won't have an abortion, but I would NEVER try and stop someone else from having one, tho I may try and reason with them.
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  #7  
October 30th, 2008, 04:41 PM
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I am Pro-life and the first part of that article is ludicrous in itself. They blame the pro-life movement on religion.. and while I am religious, my abortion stance has nothing to do with my religion.

Second, I think the man should have a say. He helped create the child as well.
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  #8  
November 1st, 2008, 11:22 AM
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I havent read the full article because Im sitting here with my baby on my lap (I´ll read it later).
But I just thought Id say that here (Mallorca),a married woman CANNOT have an abortion without the concent of her husband,and even if the woman/girl is single,the clinic will usually want to contact the father to avoid legal issues (he could sue the hospital).Some clinics will flat out refuse to do the procedure if the father cant be reached (in the case of girls saying they dont know who the father is etc etc).
Although its legal to have an abortion here now,its still VERY hard to actually get one.
My mothers cousins daughter had to leave the country to have an abortion because she couldent get the father to sign the concent form,so they refused to do it here,and shes 16!
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  #9  
November 6th, 2008, 10:11 AM
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This topic frustrates me.

I honestly think that the father should have a say in whether the woman gets an abortion or not. It is his child as well. If she doesnt want it afterwards, then he can have sole custody.

I just do NOT think that it is fair for a woman to be able to decide NOT to have a baby when her partner wants it, but if SHE wants the baby and HE doesnt, she comes after him for child support once the baby is born. I dont think its right for the woman to make the decision from both ways, with the male having no say either way. You want abortion to be a sole decision of the mother, thats fine. But you shouldnt expect payment from a father who wants nothing to do with the child.

If consent to sex is not consent to parenthood for the mother, then it shouldnt be for the father either. Its only fair.
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  #10  
November 7th, 2008, 03:41 PM
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If the "father" protest an abortion then they should sign a legal document making them equally responsible for care of that child both financially and visitation wise. That legal document should not be able to be knocked down at ANY point of the child's life. That is the ONLY reason I would give a male the right to vote/have a say on abortion policy.
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  #11  
November 7th, 2008, 06:16 PM
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This topic frustrates me.

I honestly think that the father should have a say in whether the woman gets an abortion or not. It is his child as well. If she doesnt want it afterwards, then he can have sole custody.

I just do NOT think that it is fair for a woman to be able to decide NOT to have a baby when her partner wants it, but if SHE wants the baby and HE doesnt, she comes after him for child support once the baby is born. I dont think its right for the woman to make the decision from both ways, with the male having no say either way. You want abortion to be a sole decision of the mother, thats fine. But you shouldnt expect payment from a father who wants nothing to do with the child.

If consent to sex is not consent to parenthood for the mother, then it shouldnt be for the father either. Its only fair.[/b]
You are real focused on what's fair for the potential mother or father. What's fair for the child that fetus will become? That's the valid question.
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  #12  
November 9th, 2008, 11:48 PM
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When the man has to endanger his life he can have a say in whether or not to abort.
Until then, nope, sorry, it's a giant load of BS.
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  #13  
November 16th, 2008, 09:29 PM
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A woman is the one who has to deal with every aspect of pregnancy. I'm not saying that a man should have NO say in whether or not she aborts, but I would think that the woman SHOULD have nearly all the say in a situation like this.
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  #14  
November 27th, 2008, 09:01 PM
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I think that ultimately its the woman's body and ultimately her decision. If she chose to keep the fetus then she is taking the risk with her life and her health, not the man.

I find it completely insane that the woman would have to get written permission from a man.
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  #15  
November 28th, 2008, 12:59 PM
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I'm pro-choice (recently reformed), but not because "it's the woman's body." I think men should have a say, and if the previaling law is that they don't, then they shouldn't have to pay for a child that they didn't want. I realize that the burden may then fall on tax-payers to support the children, but I think men get really screwed in the custody and child support laws. A woman can bear a man's child, not tell him, and still have him pay back support for a child he never knew he had or met. How is that fair?
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  #16  
December 22nd, 2008, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Are you against seatbelt laws, laws against drug use, laws against prostitution, helmet laws??[/b]
Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes. If people want to kill themselves and any entity that may occupy their body, that's their right.
[/b]

I saw this post and didn't even finish reading the thread before I replied...

This is definitely the most spectacular thing I've ever read. By doing things that keep large amounts of people alive, we cancel out Darwinism. I got in a car accident on Saturday with a lady who wasn't wearing her seatbelt. No one was seriously hurt, but if she would've been, it would've served her right.

Therefore, I COMPLETELY agree with you.
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  #17  
January 18th, 2009, 04:22 PM
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IMO it should be up to the woman herself in every situation to make this decision on her own. It's her body, her choice. Yes, it would be the father's baby too, but the woman is the one who will go through the physical and emotional changes of pregnancy and becoming a mother. It's flat out not right to give someone else, no matter what their potential role - the power to decide what a woman should and shouldn't do with her body.[/b]
I agree 100%
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  #18  
January 28th, 2009, 05:27 PM
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This topic frustrates me.

I honestly think that the father should have a say in whether the woman gets an abortion or not. It is his child as well. If she doesnt want it afterwards, then he can have sole custody.

I just do NOT think that it is fair for a woman to be able to decide NOT to have a baby when her partner wants it, but if SHE wants the baby and HE doesnt, she comes after him for child support once the baby is born. I dont think its right for the woman to make the decision from both ways, with the male having no say either way. You want abortion to be a sole decision of the mother, thats fine. But you shouldnt expect payment from a father who wants nothing to do with the child.

If consent to sex is not consent to parenthood for the mother, then it shouldnt be for the father either. Its only fair.[/b]

Here are the potential benefits for this child; I believe the words were, "You are real focused on what's fair for the potential mother or father. What's fair for the child that fetus will become? That's the valid question."

The father AND mother should both have a say (barring rape, incest, etc). Men get the poo end of the stick. Yeah women hurt and have to give birth and risk their lives giving birth, etc. etc. etc. Practice abstinence or get your tubes tied if you don't want kids. Seriously, sex is not worth an abortion.

Men don't have the "life risk" we women have during pregnancy and birth, but they also don't have a say in abortion, they have to pay child support even if they don't want the kid. They rarely get custody and if the mom takes off with the kid, yeah the dad can fight it, but really? Why go through all that? Men do it all the time. They are silent victims of this BS.

When are we going to learn to be human and realize that a life isn't a choice. A baby is not an object, an obstacle, a mistake or an impediment that should be tossed to the side so flippantly. Parents are parents, no matter what your gender. If one gender gets to choose whether to be a parent or not, the other gender should as well....what rights do dads get?
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  #19  
February 6th, 2009, 09:17 PM
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I know MANY women who've had abortions, I know NO man who's been upset about it.[/b]
I do know a man hurt deeply by 'abortion' He suspected a short term sexual relationship had resulted in pregnancy and begged that if that were the case she would give him the child (she went back to her husband) she claimed over and over she was pregnant (and nobody could tell either) she ended up giving birth to the child at home and throwing it away. She got off scot free and my friend was devestated because she didn't ever give him the choice in the matter of his own child.

So, I think that if a man wants the child and she doesn't she should let him have the child, after all it takes two to decide to have sex in the first place, right? And it's just plain not right to hurt someone like that. But, on the other side, if he wants her to have an abortion and she goes through with the pregnancy I don't think she should have the right to draw child support from him. To many women are using babies as their meal ticket out there and it's just wrong. Now, if they both agreed to having the child and then after it's born he books it, well, then he should have to pay for the health and well being of the child, not maybe always in money (food and clothing for the child are what it really needs, and a roof over it's head) but, to me it's a decision for both to make. My oldest I went ahead and gave birth to after her father said he didn't want me to go through with it. She is my responsibility and I have never nor will I ever ask him for child support because of that. My second 2 children's father was raring to go and excited about having children... but he's not in the picture right now... oh and he is going to pay.
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  #20  
February 6th, 2009, 09:43 PM
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IMO it should be up to the woman herself in every situation to make this decision on her own. It's her body, her choice. Yes, it would be the father's baby too, but the woman is the one who will go through the physical and emotional changes of pregnancy and becoming a mother. It's flat out not right to give someone else, no matter what their potential role - the power to decide what a woman should and shouldn't do with her body.[/b]

Whoa, saw this one too... I felt I should point out that having an abortion in not a question of what a woman has a right to do with her body, but what she has a right to do with what is inside her body. Something that was created with a man that has more to do with their choice to take that risk in the first place. IMO and in the opinion of most of the men around where I live physical and emotional changes that a pregnant woman goes through is the ultimate in being feminine. By feminine I mean, what's wrong with being a girl?!?!? Men are no equipped to have babies in their bodies... this is not a religious discussion here, this is a nature issue. Naturally if you have an abortion your body is what suffers from it down the road. Breast Cancer, Endrometrioses (sp?), and many others. Birth Conrol lends it's own set of bodiliy harm in and of it's self too (I won't knock you for being on bc, because I take it for cysts) The fact of the matter is that pregnancy is a natural thing. Having babies is something that women are naturally made to do and men are made to make them with us. Look it up in a medical book. But, to say that, even when our parts fit, and the natural outcome results that we should have the right to short circut this process is to call women the weaker species right there. It's to lose pride in who we are! We are made to be mothers! Men are made to be fathers. So, if anyone has a say so in the keeping of the baby, then both should because in a world that is screwed up enough to break such a covenant with nature and have that abortion in the first place, we might as well say the decision takes both that went into the making procesess.
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