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Its a never ending uphill battle with DH


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  #1  
October 16th, 2005, 07:11 AM
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And now that I am PG it doesn't help. I don't want to be one of those mothers that just does it just aviod confrontation with DH, but I feel like at this point it'd just be easier. I'm so exhausted, and forget about trying to convince him of something that isn't right, morally, ethically, or religiously. Its a never ending uphill battle with him.

His reasons are; he wont remember it, I was so he will, if it was religiously wrong then why did my mom, a devoute Catholic, have me and my TWO brothers circ'd, do you know how its cleaned you have to pull the forskin ALL THE WAY BACK, and SRCUB REALLY HARD with a VERY STRONG SOAP, and PULL IT ALL THE WAY BACK, as well as teasing, and his son will want it done and would hate life and be diseased if it wasn't, and he'll suffer cronic UTI.

I showed him passages from the bible, which just made him madder, I showed him what kind of pain relief they use and how it isn't efficent, I showed him that the forskin isn't just extra skin, and showed him its like your fingernail, I showed him the AAP site and what they said on cleaning, reccomendation, etc. The chances of UTI, and other things. I tried to make several analogies to him, yet, the best thing he could come up with to counter me, was "tampons arn't in the bible". Then he said there is no such thing as female circ's [I wanted to just take a baseball bat and beat him upside the head!!]

He said that all the information I showed him is online, therefor it isn't acturate. Which is BS. And then when I showed him something of the truth, he'd just get so upset. But to him, "I wasn't circ'd so I would know". Well, DUH, because its OUTLAWED ON FEMALES!!! THANK GOD!! I told him I couldn't live with myself is something horrible happened as the risks of something bad happening are grated than the risks of anything bad happening of not circing, and he just said "well we'd sue the drs". Ok so in the worse case senerio our son died, we'd just sue the drs, we signed the consent form therefor we acnoledge that, that might happen, and the dr is out of the loop, as well as any other complication.

I just feel so exhausted and I told him last night this is making me not want to be PG, in the chance that it might be a boy. Which upset, him but thats honestly how I feel. And I feel horrible for feeling that way. I love this baby more than anything, but something we shouldn't even have to make a decision about is making me wish this way. I don't want to jinx myself now that I said that outloud, but I feel horrible. I just want to just give in, I'd much rather just agree with him, but I can't. He said last night, "just respect me that I know first hand" I told him I wish with all my heart I could respect that you want to circ your son, but I can't ethically do so.

I've rambled long enough, and made my husband out to be this horrible monster, he really isn't horrible, this is the ONLY thing we both feel soooo strongly about we don't want to conform to eachother or compromise.

It tripped me out he said his son will agree with him just because he's his dad. If I had a penny or a half a penny for everytime my brothers have disagreed with my dad, i'd be a millionare. And he's disagreed plenty of times with his dad [ummm he can to TN/later NC and didn't go toc ollege, against his dad's wishes].
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  #2  
October 16th, 2005, 10:07 AM
Sunflower_Mommy2003's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fallen2Love@Oct 16 2005, 08:11 AM
And now that I am PG it doesn't help.** I don't want to be one of those mothers that just does it just aviod confrontation with DH, but I feel like at this point it'd just be easier.** I'm so exhausted, and forget about trying to convince him of something that isn't right, morally, ethically, or religiously.** Its a never ending uphill battle with him.**

His reasons are; he wont remember it, I was so he will, if it was religiously wrong then why did my mom, a devoute Catholic, have me and my TWO brothers circ'd, do you know how its cleaned you have to pull the forskin ALL THE WAY BACK, and SRCUB REALLY HARD with a VERY STRONG SOAP, and PULL IT ALL THE WAY BACK, as well as teasing, and his son will want it done and would hate life and be diseased if it wasn't, and he'll suffer cronic UTI.*

I showed him passages from the bible, which just made him madder, I showed him what kind of pain relief they use and how it isn't efficent, I showed him that the forskin isn't just extra skin, and showed him its like your fingernail, I showed him the AAP site and what they said on cleaning, reccomendation, etc.* The chances of UTI, and other things.* I tried to make several analogies to him, yet, the best thing he could come up with to counter me, was "tampons arn't in the bible".** Then he said there is no such thing as female circ's [I wanted to just take a baseball bat and beat him upside the head!!]

He said that all the information I showed him is online, therefor it isn't acturate.* Which is BS.** And then when I showed him something of the truth, he'd just get so upset.* But to him, "I wasn't circ'd so I would know".** Well, DUH, because its OUTLAWED ON FEMALES!!!** THANK GOD!!* I told him I couldn't live with myself is something horrible happened as the risks of something bad happening are grated than the risks of anything bad happening of not circing, and he just said "well we'd sue the drs".** Ok so in the worse case senerio our son died, we'd just sue the drs, we signed the consent form therefor we acnoledge that, that might happen, and the dr is out of the loop, as well as any other complication.**

I just feel so exhausted and I told him last night this is making me not want to be PG, in the chance that it might be a boy.** Which upset, him but thats honestly how I feel.** And I feel horrible for feeling that way.** I love this baby more than anything, but something we shouldn't even have to make a decision about is making me wish this way.* I don't want to jinx myself now that I said that outloud, but I feel horrible.* I just want to just give in,* I'd much rather just agree with him, but I can't.** He said last night, "just respect me that I know first hand" I told him I wish with all my heart I could respect that you want to circ* your son, but I can't ethically do so.* *

I've rambled long enough, and made my husband out to be this horrible monster, he really isn't horrible, this is the ONLY thing we* both feel soooo strongly about we don't want to conform to eachother or compromise.**

It tripped me out he said his son will agree with him just because he's his dad.* If I had a penny or a half a penny for everytime my brothers have disagreed with my dad, i'd be a millionare.** And he's disagreed plenty of times with his dad [ummm he can to TN/later NC and didn't go toc ollege, against his dad's wishes].
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[/quote]

First, Congratulations! on your pregnancy!

Second, BIG that you are dealing with this right now...

There's a HUGE thread on another forum filled with the stories of women who regret circumcising, many of whom feel a great deal of guilt because they let themselves be pressured/manipulated/coerced into circing against their better judgement/maternal instincts. If you or anyone else would like the link so you can read their stories, PM me and I'll pass it on.

With regard to his reasons...

"he wont remember it"

-Will he remember your tender touch, your loving words, your smile, rocking him, cuddling with him, bathing him, singing to him, etc?

-If a child is to young to form conscious memories, does that justify allowing anyone to do whatever they want to them? If I physically punish my 2 month old for keeping me up at night, will he/she remember it? Does that make it okay?

-Does a date rape drug make the violation of a woman's body okay? Why not? She won't remember it.

-Studies HAVE shown the long-term effects of circumcision pain, and that circumcised babies react more strongly to immunization pain months later compared to intact babies.

"I was so he will"

-Does he agree with EVERYTHING about the way he was raised/his childhood?

-If he was circumcised because of medical quackery, cultural conformity, ignorance, etc...doesn't doing the same thing to your son because it happened to him make your son just another victim of those things?

-If your dh had a finger, toe, hand, foot, leg, or arm amputated as a child, would he ever consider doing the same to his son because it was done to him?

-There's a difference between surviving, and thriving.

"if it was religiously wrong then why did my mom, a devoute Catholic, have me and my TWO brothers circ'd"

-People make mistakes, even religious people.

-We do the best we can, with the information we have at the time, but sometimes we don't have all the information. "When you know better, you do better."

-As more research and studies are done, and medical knowledge grows...shouldn't our children benefit from it? It might be interesting to pick up a pregnancy book from the decade he was born...what other things were done/recommended then, that aren't anymore? Are you going to put your son to sleep on his belly and start cereal at 2 weeks because that's how he was raised, even though we know that's not healthy/wise now?

"do you know how its cleaned you have to pull the forskin ALL THE WAY BACK, and SRCUB REALLY HARD with a VERY STRONG SOAP"

-This is all the more reason to make sure you don't give in. He's obviously basing his decision on false information and irrational fear. Fortunately, this may be the easiest of all of his misconceptions/arguments to counter. Read him the AAP "Care of the Uncircumcised Penis" policy, where it says that the care he's suggesting is required for intact penises is painful, unnecessary, and damaging. The reality is, all you have to do is wipe off the outside like you would a finger, and there's no wound-care to deal with. When he's older, all he has to do is "retract, rinse, replace". No soap is even necessary, and certainly NO SCRUBBING.

"teasing"

-Times have changed. Nearly 50% of today's baby boys are left intact. Boys born today will grow up used to seeing both kinds of penises. It won't be long until circed boys are in the minority, even in this country. The U.S. is finally catching up with the rest of the world!

"his son will want it done and would hate life and be diseased if it wasn't, and he'll suffer cronic UTI."

-We don't have a crystal ball.

-Most of the world's men are intact, and they are happy and content with their whole penises.

-There is no reason to assume he'd want his penis to be missing 3-4 feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10,000-20,000 specialized nerve endings.

-Intact baby boys have about the same risk of UTI as intact baby girls: About 1%.

-If you circumcise, your son has a 9-10% risk of meatal stenosis, and a 71% chance of penile adhesions during the first year, as well as a 1% chance of requiring a recircumcision or revision.

-No medical organization in the entire world recommends/encourages RIC.

-Leaving him intact leaves him with a choice. Choosing for him, before he can make his own wishes known, leaves him with no choice if he wishes he'd been left intact. Foreskin restoration cannot replace most of what's lost.

---

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but maybe this gives you some other ideas as to how to counter his arguments. If you need referrences for anything (or everything, lol) I've listed here, let me know and I'll post links and referrences.

In the end, HE is the one proposing surgery for your healthy son. He should have to prove why it's necessary, not with mere fear---but actual facts. I would just tell him, flat out: "I've researched this. If you're not willing to research it, you aren't going to have any say in this. This is about his penis, circumcision is surgery and it carries risks. This decision is going to be an informed one."

Showing him the passages in the Bible made him more angry because he realized you were right, and that's frustrating for him.

Tampons aren't in the Bible, no...but circumcision is. And the Bible makes it clear that not only is circumcision unnecessary, but it actually says that circumcision is essentially a rejection of Christ, and obligates men to obey the Whole (OT) Law.

As far as him simply not trusting something because it's online, I would emphasize the fact that major medical organizations have online websites, medical journals are now online, etc, etc. I would offer to print the resources out for him, if he wants to physically hold them in his hands...and if he doesn't trust the citations, the library is that-a-way.

All your dh knows is what he remembers having, and if he was circumcised at birth, he has nothing to compare to. YOU are actually the one with the intact genitals. YOU still have your prepuce (clitoral hood).

[email protected] his child will agree with him because he's the dad...seriously, ROFL. We all disagree with our own parents on many things. It's only natural. He's his own person, and your son will be too. That's what being an individual is all about. I hope he was just not thinking that argument through well, and he wasn't serious/doesn't really believe this. This just comes across as so naive/immature/unrealistic to me.

Honestly, I think you just need to put your foot down and tell him unless he can show you a medical organization that recommends it or can prove to you that it's necessary your sweet, perfect, healthy newborn baby will not be having any surgeries, and that's that. The foreskin comes standard, leaving him intact is the default---and if you can't agree, that's the way he stays. I would just say it flat out, be firm, and tell him unless he comes up with some factual information to present to you, the discussion is over and you are going to let go of this stress and quit worrying about having to defend and protect your son from his own father. (Okay, I wouldn't say it exactly like that...but you know what I mean.)

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, but remember we're here from you! Vent whenever you need to.

HTHs,

Jen
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  #3  
October 16th, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Thanks Jen. I think I will print out some articles from medical journals/sites if not i'll go check out some library information for him to check out.

I actually brought up many of those points [the counter argument] with him, and it just inferated him even more <maybe he knows i'm right>.

I know if he doesn't have his son circ'd, it will indirectly mean something is wrong with him, and there isn't anything wrong with him, the past is done, and you can't change it, but you can do better in the future.

I mentioned to him as part of our "truce", that if I am going to agree on this he needs to find me factual infomation from medical organizations stating why it should be done, that are correct and proper [not the oh it prevents UTI, when there is a slim to none already chance]. His thing is, I don't have penis so how would I know. I didn't have any extra skin cut off, i'm quite content with how I clean myself, it doesn't take anymore time than if that skin weren't there, and i'm just as clean.

With all my emotions haywire right now, it just seems so hard to fight. HOnestly, I know without a doubt in my mind that once he gets over the inital :shock: he'll be fine and accept it. He dislikes dogs and cats, yet we have 2 dogs and and a cat, once he got over the shock of it, he really cares about them. I know it'll be the same with this. Once we get out of the hospital and at home and he realizes a forskin is a natural thing not an alien body part, he'll be fine. Its just a scary consept to him. Deep down, I know he knows i'm right, or he wouldn't have gotten as defensive and upset as he did, and he ALMOST said exactly the biggest issue a circ'd guy would say to leaving his son intact, that he has to admit it shoulda been different with him.
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  #4  
October 16th, 2005, 03:19 PM
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Congratulations on your pregnancy!

When are you due?

Try not to stress to much about the circumcision issue right now. You have time to keep educating your dh. Keep providing him with information, and make sure he watches a video or two of an actual circumcision. Keep cool and factual. Your dh is no dummy (he's with you, after all ), so try to have faith that he will see the light. Many men have to go through the defensive phase before they see the light about circumcision.
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  #5  
October 16th, 2005, 07:36 PM
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I'm due June 13th. A summer babe! HEHE


I'm trying not to stress to much. I hope he sees the light before June, even if this one is a girlie!
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  #6  
October 19th, 2005, 07:07 AM
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I've read all that information before, as well as on other sites. I just am not feeling the urge to circ my son if I have one.
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  #7  
November 13th, 2005, 07:11 PM
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When my dh and I were deciding whether or not we would circumcise (this was before we knew we were even having a boy), he got online to yahoo.com and did a video search for circumcision. He pulled up a video of the actual procedure, and the video was pretty lengthy, and all through it the baby boy was screaming and crying and gurgling and it was just horrible, he kept putting his hand out almost like he was trying to make them stop, and there was noone consoling him or anything, they were just going on cutting on him. It was then and there that I decided definitely not. Which were weren't going to anyways but especially not after seeing that video. Maybe if you can pull up something like that and show him it would change his mind. I hope so.
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  #8  
November 14th, 2005, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EasternKYgirl8@Nov 13 2005, 09:11 PM
When my dh and I were deciding whether or not we would circumcise (this was before we knew we were even having a boy), he got online to yahoo.com and did a video search for circumcision. He pulled up a video of the actual procedure, and the video was pretty lengthy, and all through it the baby boy was screaming and crying and gurgling and it was just horrible, he kept putting his hand out almost like he was trying to make them stop, and there was noone consoling him or anything, they were just going on cutting on him. It was then and there that I decided definitely not. Which were weren't going to anyways but especially not after seeing that video. Maybe if you can pull up something like that and show him it would change his mind. I hope so.
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Welcome, EasternKYgirl8

I agree, circumcision is a pretty disturbing thing to watch. Those videos can be pretty upsetting, but at the same time...they've influenced many people not to put their babies through the procedure. I'm glad to hear that it reaffirmed you were making the right decision by leaving your baby as he will come to you-healthy and whole.

Again, welcome!



Hope you stick around. :-)

Jen
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  #9  
November 14th, 2005, 08:08 AM
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I made him "listen" to a video once, and he was extremely distrubed [about 6+ months ago], but he's just got so much "man pride" to admit anything is wrong with it.
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  #10  
November 14th, 2005, 05:57 PM
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I know how you feel about your debate with DH. I was scared to death to find out I was having a boy because I didn't want to have to make the decision about circumcision. I was actually the one against it, I just thought everyone got their sons circumcized. Anyways my BF won me over in the end, because after I researched I realized it is so unnecessary! Best of luck winning over DH. But remember, you don't even know if you're having a boy yet,, so maybe this is a battle you don't need to have yet. Are you going to find out?
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