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  #1  
November 6th, 2005, 01:50 AM
KaylaMeow's Avatar Canned Spontaneity
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I know EmilysMommy posted about this not too long ago, and I read through her thread, but I wasn't quite sure I got all the info I needed, and felt my situation--while similar--was not quite the same.



We're expecting our first child--a wonderful little boy--and neither of us could be more excited. I had initially wanted a girl (merely for having mommy/daughter time and to dress her in those cute dresses!), but now that I've had time to think about it and talk to other mommies (ALL of which tell me that boys are easier), I'm grateful for the fate that is giving us our little guy.

However! There is the issue of circumcision. DH is circumcised, and all the male members of my family are also circumcised. I read an article on it in one of my magazines that I get (I think it was American Baby) that recently came out giving the pros and cons, and I've read all sorts of research material. Both sides have very valid points in wanting to circumcise or not. I've even talked to one of the local pediatricians (of the three) in the area about it. Apparently, all three peds do the circumcision differently. One ties a little dumbell like thing on it and leaves it on for the foreskin to fall off. (This seems cruel to me, and I have NO DESIRE to watch the process of my son's body being separated from a piece of itself.) Another uses a guillotine effect. (I'm not quite sure how that works, but anything with the word "guillotine" in it is best far away from my son.) And the last uses some other sort of device that pinches the skin to prevent bleeding when he cuts it. (Of the three, this seems the least horrible, but... *sigh) I've always been somewhat against the whole idea. I mean, why would God put the child on this earth with it in the first place, if it was just meant to be removed, right?

On the other hand, DH is adamant about wanting to have the circumcision done. He's 1/2 Irish, and is very big on that part of his heritage. He tells me that he wants it done because he is, and because he feels it's a religious thing. (Something about the ancient Irish Celts stemming from the Jewish bloodline...) It's not a matter of lockerroom teasing. If our son is anything like DH, it'll just be water off a duck's back, and he won't hear a word of it.

Also, when I mentioned it to my father, he flat out told me that I "had" to have the baby circumcised. Apparently, my great great grandfather (yes, that far back) was uncircumcised for a long while, but then developed some sort of problem (I don't remember exactly what it was), and had to be circumcised at the age of 16. He then made all his children and children's children (and so-on-and-so-forth) promise that they would have their sons circumcised at birth. I kind of resent that decision being taken out of my hands like that. I never promised him.

Then there's the issue of Medicaid. When I got pregnant, we didn't have insurance, we weren't married yet, and I was unable to work because of health issues caused by the pregnancy. So, I signed up for Idaho Medicaid. However, in August of this year, Medicaid stopped covering circumcision, viewing it as more of a "cosmetic" surgery than as a medical necessity. The price to have the circumcision done is $400, if you do the surgery in the doctor's office. If it's done in the hospital, it's $550. The doctor that I spoke to told me that they feel badly for people paying out-of-pocket, so they only charge Medicaid patients and people without insurance $200 for the surgery, but that's still a lot of money that we definitely don't have!

I don't know what to do. DH is adamant, family is adamant... But I want my little boy in one piece! However, nobody else sees my logic.
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  #2  
November 6th, 2005, 10:50 AM
Sunflower_Mommy2003's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally posted by detailoring@Nov 6 2005, 03:50 AM
I know EmilysMommy posted about this not too long ago, and I read through her thread, but I wasn't quite sure I got all the info I needed, and felt my situation--while similar--was not quite the same.



We're expecting our first child--a wonderful little boy--and neither of us could be more excited.* I had initially wanted a girl (merely for having mommy/daughter time and to dress her in those cute dresses!), but now that I've had time to think about it and talk to other mommies (ALL of which tell me that boys are easier), I'm grateful for the fate that is giving us our little guy.

However!* There is the issue of circumcision.* DH is circumcised, and all the male members of my family are also circumcised.* I read an article on it in one of my magazines that I get (I think it was American Baby) that recently came out giving the pros and cons, and I've read all sorts of research material.* Both sides have very valid points in wanting to circumcise or not.* I've even talked to one of the local pediatricians (of the three) in the area about it.* Apparently, all three peds do the circumcision differently.* One ties a little dumbell like thing on it and leaves it on for the foreskin to fall off.* (This seems cruel to me, and I have NO DESIRE to watch the process of my son's body being separated from a piece of itself.)* Another uses a guillotine effect.* (I'm not quite sure how that works, but anything with the word "guillotine" in it is best far away from my son.)* And the last uses some other sort of device that pinches the skin to prevent bleeding when he cuts it.* (Of the three, this seems the least horrible, but... *sigh)* I've always been somewhat against the whole idea.* I mean, why would God put the child on this earth with it in the first place, if it was just meant to be removed, right?

On the other hand, DH is adamant about wanting to have the circumcision done.* He's 1/2 Irish, and is very big on that part of his heritage.* He tells me that he wants it done because he is, and because he feels it's a religious thing.* (Something about the ancient Irish Celts stemming from the Jewish bloodline...)* It's not a matter of lockerroom teasing.* If our son is anything like DH, it'll just be water off a duck's back, and he won't hear a word of it.

Also, when I mentioned it to my father, he flat out told me that I "had" to have the baby circumcised.* Apparently, my great great grandfather (yes, that far back) was uncircumcised for a long while, but then developed some sort of problem (I don't remember exactly what it was), and had to be circumcised at the age of 16.* He then made all his children and children's children (and so-on-and-so-forth) promise that they would have their sons circumcised at birth.* I kind of resent that decision being taken out of my hands like that.* I never promised him.

Then there's the issue of Medicaid.* When I got pregnant, we didn't have insurance, we weren't married yet, and I was unable to work because of health issues caused by the pregnancy.* So, I signed up for Idaho Medicaid.* However, in August of this year, Medicaid stopped covering circumcision, viewing it as more of a "cosmetic" surgery than as a medical necessity.* The price to have the circumcision done is $400, if you do the surgery in the doctor's office.* If it's done in the hospital, it's $550.* The doctor that I spoke to told me that they feel badly for people paying out-of-pocket, so they only charge Medicaid patients and people without insurance $200 for the surgery, but that's still a lot of money that we definitely don't have!

I don't know what to do.* DH is adamant, family is adamant...* But I want my little boy in one piece!* However, nobody else sees my logic.*
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[/quote]

Welcome, Kayla!

Sorry you're experiencing conflict over this decision with your dh and his side of the family. It was odd to read about your dh thinking his Irish heritage is reason to circumcise. Circumcision has never been routine in Ireland. http://www.irishhealth.com/?level=4&con=476

Regarding the methods, there are three...and all three work in a similar manner by clamping/crushing the skin to cut off blood flow and decrease bleeding when the foreskin is cut off. The types are Gomco, Mogen, and Plastibell. None of the devices actually do any cutting. Once the device is placed, and the skin is clamped/crushed, then a blade or scapel is used to cut the skin off. This is true even with the Plastibell, a method many people mistakenly believe is a.) painless and b.) doesn't require cutting.

Regarding your great great grandfather, the reason your father is advocating you circumcise your son amounts to nothing more than tradition. Somewhere, somehow, sometime it started in your family and now he wants you to continue doing it. You're right, you didn't make that promise to anyone. This is your son, and it's your responsibility to protect him and do what's in his best interests. Times change, knowledge increases, recommendations change. We now know that circumcision isn't necessary for health or hygiene. We also know that with proper care, circumcision later in life is extremely rare. In countries that don't routinely circumcise, it's as low as 1/18,000. In Canada and the U.S., because of unfamiliarity with intact anatomy and what's normal as well as conservative treatments for common problems, the rate of medically necessary circumcision for intact males is about 1/100...which is still quite low.

With regard to the money, I agree...there's a lot of better things to spend $200 on.

Have you or your dh watched this video, called The Prepuce?

“The Prepuce”

(WMP, Streaming):

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, Download-use “save link as”):

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org...NTSC_256k_D. wmv

It's intended for medical students, so it's a bit dry...but it's very informative.

Your son will be born healthy and normal, the foreskin is there for a reason and has many functions, and circumcision is SURGERY. There is no way to know what your son would prefer, so the safest and most respectful thing is leave the decision to him. Ultimately, as his Momma, you may just have to put your foot down and say, "No, he's not getting cut without a good-MEDICAL-reason."

HTHs. If you have other questions, or need further resources, don't hesitate to ask and please keep us updated.



Jen
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  #3  
November 6th, 2005, 02:04 PM
KaylaMeow's Avatar Canned Spontaneity
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Sunflower_Mommy!! I had dh watch the video, and though he's mildly nauseated, he's finally agreed that I can leave my little guy all in once piece! Thank you!! It's nice to finally have a medical backing with reasons against circumcision for a change!
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  #4  
November 6th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Sunflower_Mommy2003's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
Originally posted by detailoring@Nov 6 2005, 04:04 PM
Sunflower_Mommy!!* I had dh watch the video, and though he's mildly nauseated, he's finally agreed that I can leave my little guy all in once piece!* * Thank you!!* It's nice to finally have a medical backing with reasons against circumcision for a change!
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[/quote]

Wow!

Glad to hear you found something that finally did the trick!



There's actually a great deal of medical backing against circumcision...you can find lots of journal articles and such at http://www.cirp.org/ .

Feel free to stick around! When in December are you due, BTW?



Jen
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  #5  
November 6th, 2005, 03:44 PM
Butter's Avatar Heather the Mama Duk
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That's great! You know, the weirdest thing happened when I was pregnant with Cameron and then after he was born. We knew he was a boy and people would invariably ask if we were going to circ him. I'd say no. Then they'd ask if Jamie was circed. I'd say yes. Then they'd either say he must be very secure in his manhood or we'd change our minds (no, actually it was just neither of us thought it was necessary to do). Several people actively tried to get us to change our minds. Fast forward a couple months and Cameron was born and we left him as God made him. All of a sudden those same people are saying it is good we left him uncirced?!?! It made no sense. It was like while he was inside they still had a chance to convince us to circ, but once he was out and intact that's a good thing.

Interestingly, Jamie's mom is British. She came to the US when she was 17. Jamie's dad is American and, like most other men of his generation, is circed. Jamie apparently was circed because his dad is and his dad insisted. Apparently his mom was very opposed to it since they don't do RIC in the UK.
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  #6  
November 6th, 2005, 03:55 PM
KaylaMeow's Avatar Canned Spontaneity
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sunflower_Mommy2003+Nov 6 2005, 02:20 PM-->
Quote:
<!--QuoteBegin-detailoring
Quote:
@Nov 6 2005, 04:04 PM
Sunflower_Mommy!!* I had dh watch the video, and though he's mildly nauseated, he's finally agreed that I can leave my little guy all in once piece!* * Thank you!!* It's nice to finally have a medical backing with reasons against circumcision for a change!
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow!

Glad to hear you found something that finally did the trick!



There's actually a great deal of medical backing against circumcision...you can find lots of journal articles and such at http://www.cirp.org/ .

Feel free to stick around! When in December are you due, BTW?



Jen
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
[/b][/quote]

My biggest concern now is how my family is going to take the news that we're leaving him uncirced. Hopefully, they'll just let it be and know that I'm doing what I feel is best for him as his mother. Knowing my family, though, that's wishful thinking. *sigh*

I'm due December 20th, though at this point, the doctor thinks he'll be born in November, because we've had problems with contractions, dilation, and various other medical issues that I've had throughout the pregnancy. (4 rounds of the flu, 9 UTIs, and pregnancy-induced bi-polar/depression!)


Quote:
Originally posted by Butter@Nov 6 2005, 02:44 PM
That's great!* You know, the weirdest thing happened when I was pregnant with Cameron and then after he was born.* We knew he was a boy and people would invariably ask if we were going to circ him.* I'd say no.* Then they'd ask if Jamie was circed.* I'd say yes.* Then they'd either say he must be very secure in his manhood or we'd change our minds (no, actually it was just neither of us thought it was necessary to do).* Several people actively tried to get us to change our minds.* Fast forward a couple months and Cameron was born and we left him as God made him.* All of a sudden those same people are saying it is good we left him uncirced?!?!* It made no sense.* It was like while he was inside they still had a chance to convince us to circ, but once he was out and intact that's a good thing.

Interestingly, Jamie's mom is British.* She came to the US when she was 17.* Jamie's dad is American and, like most other men of his generation, is circed.* Jamie apparently was circed because his dad is and his dad insisted.* Apparently his mom was very opposed to it since they don't do RIC in the UK.
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[/quote]

I think people are just all-around confused, and don't like confronting a mother. One of my guy friends actually said it was safer to approach a baby moose with the mama moose nearby than to confront a human mother about choices she made regarding her children. LoL
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  #7  
November 7th, 2005, 01:46 PM
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Thats awsome he has agreed to no circ.
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  #8  
November 7th, 2005, 03:49 PM
ryansmama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally posted by detailoring+Nov 6 2005, 05:55 PM-->
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 02:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-detailoring
Quote:
Quote:
@Nov 6 2005, 04:04 PM
Sunflower_Mommy!!* I had dh watch the video, and though he's mildly nauseated, he's finally agreed that I can leave my little guy all in once piece!* * Thank you!!* It's nice to finally have a medical backing with reasons against circumcision for a change!
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Wow!

Glad to hear you found something that finally did the trick!



There's actually a great deal of medical backing against circumcision...you can find lots of journal articles and such at http://www.cirp.org/ .

Feel free to stick around! When in December are you due, BTW?



Jen
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quote]

My biggest concern now is how my family is going to take the news that we're leaving him uncirced. Hopefully, they'll just let it be and know that I'm doing what I feel is best for him as his mother. Knowing my family, though, that's wishful thinking. *sigh*

I'm due December 20th, though at this point, the doctor thinks he'll be born in November, because we've had problems with contractions, dilation, and various other medical issues that I've had throughout the pregnancy. (4 rounds of the flu, 9 UTIs, and pregnancy-induced bi-polar/depression!)


Quote:
Originally posted by Butter@Nov 6 2005, 02:44 PM
That's great!* You know, the weirdest thing happened when I was pregnant with Cameron and then after he was born.* We knew he was a boy and people would invariably ask if we were going to circ him.* I'd say no.* Then they'd ask if Jamie was circed.* I'd say yes.* Then they'd either say he must be very secure in his manhood or we'd change our minds (no, actually it was just neither of us thought it was necessary to do).* Several people actively tried to get us to change our minds.* Fast forward a couple months and Cameron was born and we left him as God made him.* All of a sudden those same people are saying it is good we left him uncirced?!?!* It made no sense.* It was like while he was inside they still had a chance to convince us to circ, but once he was out and intact that's a good thing.

Interestingly, Jamie's mom is British.* She came to the US when she was 17.* Jamie's dad is American and, like most other men of his generation, is circed.* Jamie apparently was circed because his dad is and his dad insisted.* Apparently his mom was very opposed to it since they don't do RIC in the UK.
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}>
[/quote]

I think people are just all-around confused, and don't like confronting a mother. One of my guy friends actually said it was safer to approach a baby moose with the mama moose nearby than to confront a human mother about choices she made regarding her children. LoL
<div align="right"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
[/b][/quote]


Try not to worry too much about what your family will think about you keeping your baby intact. Don't bring it up. If they ask about it, you can just smile and say something like, "He was born perfect, and we're keeping him that way." I hope everything goes well for you. Maybe you'll have your little guy SOON.
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