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  #1  
December 11th, 2008, 05:41 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in my house
Posts: 7,374
My name is Stacey. My husband, Matthew, and I have been married for 5 years and we have two children, Macey (7), Sam (2) and I am due in May with another little boy.

My daughter is fully vaxed, on time and everything and my son was vaxed up to 6 months before I stopped, in order to do more research. I have been truly torn on the issue, until just recently. After taking some advice from Michelle, I read the book "What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Children's Vaccinations" and I am in the process of reading "Evidence of Harm". Suffice it to say, I was MORTIFIED and infuriated. I have made the decision to not vaccinate any longer.

I have done a complete 180 from a year ago. I was one of those people that was completely appalled when hearing or reading about those who refused to vaccinate. I could not think of any reason why anyone would refuse to give their children vaccinations....I mean, the doctors say that they are so beneficial and necessary. Well, I have stopped putting such blind faith into the medical professionals.

I actually received the vaccine exemption affidavits that I requested from the health department in the mail this afternoon.

I think, at this point, what I am most anxious about, is how other people are going to receive this information. On Monday, I have an ARD meeting for my son, at which they are expecting me to supply them with his vaccination records and I am nervous about their reaction at being handed the exemption form instead. I am also worried about finding a pediatrician in my area that will support my choice.

Anyways.....enough about me!
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  #2  
December 11th, 2008, 06:39 PM
mama2noah's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Posts: 4,005
hi stacey and welcome! i will admit i feel like i know you already because i used to lurk on the debate boards a bit! ha! i am tiffany, mama to noah (2). i have also been married for 5 years to my husband, steve.

i also fully vaxed noah until he was 6 months old and then stopped. at first i was just going to delay until he was two, but the more i learned made me realize we will not be vaxxing anymore. i know what you mean about being mortified! our pedi isn't really on board with us not vaxxing. she hasn't kicked us our or anything but she is not a fan! i will probably switch pedis before noah's next visit (which will not be until he is 3). i know there are a couple of delay/selective/non vax friendly docs in the area and i think before baby number 2 comes along and before noah goes to school, i would like to have a knew doc. my ped keeps asking "what are you going to do when he goes to school" and i keep saying that we can get an exemption and she says "well a religious one i guess". i just don't ever want her questioning that exemption even though i don't think legally she can. (which is why i think i would be more comfortable switching before that time comes).

noah doesn't go to daycare right now so i haven't had to deal with whole exemption thing yet, so i am no help there. i know it's hard not to be nervous but if you have an exemption, that's pretty much it, end of story, you don't have to justify your exemption to anyone.

anyway, glad to have you and i know you are going to learn a lot here!!

BTW, i didn't know you were expecting again (i haven't lurked in awhile i guess!) congrats!
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  #3  
December 11th, 2008, 07:53 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in my house
Posts: 7,374
Thanks!

Fortunately, I live in Texas, which allows vaccine exemptions for reasons of conscience, as well as medical and religious reasons. I was exactly the same as you, I stopped vaxing Sammy with the intention of delaying and, maybe, selective vaxing. Once I read these books, though, I knew there was no way in HELL my children would ever receive another vaccination.

I really want to find a pedi that is supportive of my choice and decisions regarding vaxing. I know that, with the exemption, I am within my legal rights to refuse to vax, however, I just don't want to have a debate on the issue every time my children have an appt.

I was watching the TV show "The Doctors" today and they were discussing autism, including the potential vaccine link. They featured one family, out of their 7 children, 4 had autism. They also had Dr Jay Gordon (Jenny McCarthy's pediatrician) and Dr Harvey Karp to debate the vaccine/autism link. I can't find a video of the episode, but Dr Gordon was awesome! Here is a rundown from the website:
Here's a synopsis of the show off of the doctors website:

Quote:
The Mystery of Autism
It is estimated that one out of every 150 kids in America will be diagnosed with autism; the fastest-growing developmental disability at this time. The neurological disease affects a person’s ability to communicate and interact with others.

How is this happening? Could it be from vaccines? Is autism hereditary or caused by environmental factors? This subject is hotly debated across the country … and now on The Doctors.

Dan and Lori have seven children, and four of them are autistic. Their oldest son, Mitchell, 10, easily becomes anxious and emotional. Alex, 9, wears Halloween costumes every day and exhibits destructive tendencies in the home. Their oldest daughter, Danielle, 8, is starting to talk more, but rarely interacts with other children. Adam, 6, is the most severely affected. He has no verbalization and oftentimes hits and kicks his parents and pushes his siblings. His tantrums have become so intense that he has even been hospitalized.

“It’s like I failed the kids somehow,” Dan says.

One of the most difficult things for Dan and Lori to manage with autistic children is discipline. “It’s hard for them to realize that what they did is wrong,” Lori says.

In studio, Dr. Travis asks Dan and Lori, “How do you manage?”

“It’s a day-by-day thing,” Lori says. “We do see progress with the kids. That is great. We do see things work, and that’s what keeps us going.”

Dr. Jim explains that doctors still don’t know why children develop the disability. He asks the couple to describe some of the early symptoms they observed in their children.

Dan says some of the kids did not exhibit speech, were staring off and were not able to effectively communicate.

“They don’t run to you with a toy and ask you to interact with them,” Lori says. “Not only did they not develop speech, speech stopped.” She adds that their daughter used to be a happy, bubbly baby, but her disposition changed, and she would sit in the corner and ignore others. “There were definite personality changes.”

Behavior Symptoms of Autism
Dr. Jim explains the signs of autism, often seen in kids before the age of 3 and many times by 12 to 18 months old:
• Changes in social interaction
• Lack of eye contact
• Appearing to be in his/her own world
• Displaying no interest in other children playing
• Showing no attachment to parents
• Unaware of the environment and other people
• Changes in verbal skills: either doesn’t learn to talk or regresses and stops talking
• Repetitive behaviors: hand flapping, staring at ceiling fans, spinning or rocking, lining up toy cars or other objects
“A lot of these behaviors are kind of typical in ‘typical kids,’ too,” Dr. Jim says. “That’s sometimes the confusing thing.” Autism affects each child differently.

Dan and Lori worry about their son, Eric, who is not autistic. They don’t know how to prevent him from modeling behaviors after his older siblings, when that’s all that he sees.

Dr. Jim explains that he will learn by watching his parents, other kids at school and friends.

The parents ask Dr. Sears when they should tell their younger children that their older siblings have autism.

“Tell them right now. They’re living it,” Dr. Jim says. He assures the couple that their younger children will understand.

Lori is pregnant again and worries for the fate of her unborn child.

“Over the years, we’ve learned that there definitely is a genetic factor here,” Dr. Jim says. “There is something in the genes of your kids that make them a little vulnerable to a trigger. We still don’t know what that trigger is.” He offers that triggers could be viruses, heavy metals like lead, or other chemicals. “There are a lot of theories.”

Pediatrician Dr. Jay Gordon, who strongly believes that vaccines are a major contributing factor in autism, joins the discussion. “Vaccines, as they are now formulated can cause autism and other problems,” Dr. Gordon says. “Right now, they’re not as safe as they can be.” He advises that Dan and Lori do not vaccinate their unborn child. “You have a genetic, a familial predisposition to children developing autism,” he tells them. “All children who get vaccines don’t get autism. All children with autism are not autistic because of vaccines.”

Dr. Gordon suggests that before parents vaccinate their children, they should educate themselves, find a doctor they trust, and look at their family history for autism, childhood depression and autoimmune diseases. “The very serious Neuroimmunologists are now saying that autism is a neuro-immune disorder,” he says. “I really think that it doesn’t make any sense to give five or six shots to a little baby whose immune system and central nervous system are still a little bit questionable and extremely immature. Wait six months, wait a year. Get counsel. Read as much as you can. But the way that vaccines are manufactured can cause autism. The way that they’re administered can cause autism, and they should be much, much safer.”

On the other side of the debate is Dr. Harvey Karp, who agrees with the many studies that show zero association between vaccines and autism. “If you stop immunizing children, especially in the first year or two, you’re putting them at risk,” he says. “Vaccines are a miracle.” He adds that studies performed in other countries show that when the rate of immunizations go down, the rate of illnesses go up.

Dr. Gordon disagrees. “The studies were not done well. The studies were often funded by the manufacturers of the vaccine,” he refutes. “I don’t vaccinate against any illnesses that pose anywhere near as much a threat to your family as autism does. I admit that if we stop giving certain vaccines, some illnesses might return. I admit that there’s no proof that vaccines cause autism. There’s evidence.” He is adamant that more testing needs to be completed.

Dr. Karp tells Dr. Gordon that he must back his claims with scientific proof. “The only reason we have little disease right now is because so many people are getting their kids immunized,” he says. “If more and more people follow the advice that [Dr. Gordon’s] giving -- to defer these vaccines -- and we see more illness, the children who are going to suffer are not so much the ones who choose not to get the immunizations, but the next-door neighbor and the kids in the preschool, who then spread the illness back to little babies who are not even old enough to get the immunizations yet.”

Dr. Sears weighs in. “I do not want everybody to stop vaccinating, because then we’re going to see polio come back, and kids are going to start dying of measles again,” he says. “In my office, I try to look at each child individually. I want to get them eventually fully vaccinated, unless they have a lot of risk factors for autism.” He looks at Dan and Lori and tells them, “If your family was in my practice, there’s no way I would vaccinate your kids, but I would also talk to you about how to minimize your risks of catching those important illnesses.” He adds that the vaccine companies have taken mercury out of most of childhood vaccines -- a metal people think contribute to developing autism. “I encourage my patients not to blow off vaccines, but I want to do it as safely as I can,” Dr. Jim says, explaining that he starts children at 2 months with the important vaccinations like whooping cough and meningitis, but he only gives one or two at a time. “Some of the more controversial ones, we wait until later,” he says.
Dr. Travis concludes, “Most physicians support vaccination, and we don’t want to go back to a time where when someone comes into the hospital, we’re worried about all of these diseases that have pretty much been wiped out of our children.”[/b]

Here are excerpts from an older episode in which the discussed autism and vaccines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvP10cBCTyE



I have been pretty shocked to discover how pro-vax Dr Sears is.
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  #4  
December 11th, 2008, 08:21 PM
ragmama's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Southern VA
Posts: 40,025
Hi, Stacey - welcome to the board! I'm Kristin, mom to Rachael (4 1/2) and Amelia (just turned one.) I'm rather the same - Rachael was fully vaxed through age three, and I SO regret it. I just never questioned the doctors. Once I started asking questions and seeking answers, I did a complete 180 as well. Amelia was born at home and hasn't had a single vax yet. Unfortunately, we've already left one practice over it, and our new pediatrician will keep us, but is NOT supportive of my decision (and we have an appointment in the morning that I'm dreading. ) My state also doesn't have philosophical exemptions, which STINKS.

Anyway. I'm glad you're questioning and learning and HERE - the ladies here are truly great. I've learned more on this board than I have anywhere else.
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  #5  
December 11th, 2008, 10:37 PM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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Just so everyone knows.. Stacey had me jumping around my house today cheering and hollering!

to the board girl! You made my day!!
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  #6  
December 11th, 2008, 10:49 PM
Martina's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Hi Stacey!
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  #7  
December 12th, 2008, 08:22 AM
Tribeca's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Location: Someplace COLD!!!
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Hi Stacey,

Welcome! I am Marnie. I have been married to my husband Mark for 2.5 years and I have a 7 month old son who has not been vaccinated at all.

I was fortunate in that I started my research into this topic well before I even had my son so I knew from the start that any kids I had would be vaccine free. I too used to blindly put my faith in doctors and allopathic medicine, but my eyes have been opened and there is no going back!! There are many many great books on the subject. May I also suggest Dr. Sherri Tenpenny's DVD and /or book. She is sooooo knowledgeable about this subject. Check out her website http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com. Look forward to seeing more of you here!
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"An error can never become true however many times you repeat it. The truth can never be wrong, even if no one ever hears about it." Mahatma Gandhi
"Doctors put drugs of which they know little, into bodies of which they know less, for diseases of which they know nothing at all.” Voltaire
"A foolish faith in authority is the worst enemy of truth." Albert Einstein
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  #8  
December 12th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Jewinjuwa's Avatar We walk by faith
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  #9  
December 12th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Tofu Bacon
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OMG Stacey, is it really you???? Just teasing, and welcome! In case you missed my last name change, its me Cori
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  #10  
December 12th, 2008, 10:46 AM
Twinkle's Avatar Platinum Super Mommy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 57,412
Welcome to the board! I'm Christine, mama to 3 little girls. Lily, my eldest is fully vaxed until 15 months (all she needs as of now are the boosters, which we aren't getting). Julia and Kate haven't had any vaccines, and won't either. I was pretty trustful of the medical establishment until Lily got a reaction from her chicken pox vaccine. It was a "normal" reaction, she broke out with pox all over her leg. Her pediatrician at the time, refused to admit it was a reaction, and instead diagnosed her with flea bites. Well I don't know about any of you... but pox look a lot different than flea bites. I knew the difference, as did anyone else who saw her. In a way I'm glad the pediatrician lied to me, it started my quest for knowledge and gave me a kick in the butt to do my own research.
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  #11  
December 12th, 2008, 01:39 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in my house
Posts: 7,374
Quote:
OMG Stacey, is it really you???? Just teasing, and welcome! In case you missed my last name change, its me Cori [/b]
LMAO!! I LOOOOVE the new name!!

Quote:
Welcome to the board! I'm Christine, mama to 3 little girls. Lily, my eldest is fully vaxed until 15 months (all she needs as of now are the boosters, which we aren't getting). Julia and Kate haven't had any vaccines, and won't either. I was pretty trustful of the medical establishment until Lily got a reaction from her chicken pox vaccine. It was a "normal" reaction, she broke out with pox all over her leg. Her pediatrician at the time, refused to admit it was a reaction, and instead diagnosed her with flea bites. Well I don't know about any of you... but pox look a lot different than flea bites. I knew the difference, as did anyone else who saw her. In a way I'm glad the pediatrician lied to me, it started my quest for knowledge and gave me a kick in the butt to do my own research.[/b]
Macey received the chickenpox vax and has had the chickenpox TWICE (both times within one year of receiving the vax). It makes me really nervous because both cases were not "full blown" but very mild. I am worried that, since she wasn't given the chance to develop the immunity naturally, that she is now going to be vulnerable to chickenpox when she is older and it becomes more dangerous. Sammy did not receive the chickenpox vaccine. If ever given the chance, I will expose him to every case of chickenpox I hear about.
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  #12  
December 13th, 2008, 04:58 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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We talked about chicken pox parties here a few times!
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  #13  
December 13th, 2008, 06:53 AM
::er!ca::'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Welcome to the board, Stacey!!
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  #14  
December 13th, 2008, 02:43 PM
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<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE(StaceyC @ Dec 11 2008, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class=\'quotemain\'>Thanks!

Fortunately, I live in Texas, which allows vaccine exemptions for reasons of conscience, as well as medical and religious reasons. I was exactly the same as you, I stopped vaxing Sammy with the intention of delaying and, maybe, selective vaxing. Once I read these books, though, I knew there was no way in HELL my children would ever receive another vaccination.

I really want to find a pedi that is supportive of my choice and decisions regarding vaxing. I know that, with the exemption, I am within my legal rights to refuse to vax, however, I just don't want to have a debate on the issue every time my children have an appt.

I was watching the TV show "The Doctors" today and they were discussing autism, including the potential vaccine link. They featured one family, out of their 7 children, 4 had autism. They also had Dr Jay Gordon (Jenny McCarthy's pediatrician) and Dr Harvey Karp to debate the vaccine/autism link. I can't find a video of the episode, but Dr Gordon was awesome! Here is a rundown from the website:
Here's a synopsis of the show off of the doctors website:

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>The Mystery of Autism
It is estimated that one out of every 150 kids in America will be diagnosed with autism; the fastest-growing developmental disability at this time. The neurological disease affects a person’s ability to communicate and interact with others.

How is this happening? Could it be from vaccines? Is autism hereditary or caused by environmental factors? This subject is hotly debated across the country … and now on The Doctors.

Dan and Lori have seven children, and four of them are autistic. Their oldest son, Mitchell, 10, easily becomes anxious and emotional. Alex, 9, wears Halloween costumes every day and exhibits destructive tendencies in the home. Their oldest daughter, Danielle, 8, is starting to talk more, but rarely interacts with other children. Adam, 6, is the most severely affected. He has no verbalization and oftentimes hits and kicks his parents and pushes his siblings. His tantrums have become so intense that he has even been hospitalized.

“It’s like I failed the kids somehow,” Dan says.

One of the most difficult things for Dan and Lori to manage with autistic children is discipline. “It’s hard for them to realize that what they did is wrong,” Lori says.

In studio, Dr. Travis asks Dan and Lori, “How do you manage?”

“It’s a day-by-day thing,” Lori says. “We do see progress with the kids. That is great. We do see things work, and that’s what keeps us going.”

Dr. Jim explains that doctors still don’t know why children develop the disability. He asks the couple to describe some of the early symptoms they observed in their children.

Dan says some of the kids did not exhibit speech, were staring off and were not able to effectively communicate.

“They don’t run to you with a toy and ask you to interact with them,” Lori says. “Not only did they not develop speech, speech stopped.” She adds that their daughter used to be a happy, bubbly baby, but her disposition changed, and she would sit in the corner and ignore others. “There were definite personality changes.”

Behavior Symptoms of Autism
Dr. Jim explains the signs of autism, often seen in kids before the age of 3 and many times by 12 to 18 months old:
• Changes in social interaction
• Lack of eye contact
• Appearing to be in his/her own world
• Displaying no interest in other children playing
• Showing no attachment to parents
• Unaware of the environment and other people
• Changes in verbal skills: either doesn’t learn to talk or regresses and stops talking
• Repetitive behaviors: hand flapping, staring at ceiling fans, spinning or rocking, lining up toy cars or other objects
“A lot of these behaviors are kind of typical in ‘typical kids,’ too,” Dr. Jim says. “That’s sometimes the confusing thing.” Autism affects each child differently.

Dan and Lori worry about their son, Eric, who is not autistic. They don’t know how to prevent him from modeling behaviors after his older siblings, when that’s all that he sees.

Dr. Jim explains that he will learn by watching his parents, other kids at school and friends.

The parents ask Dr. Sears when they should tell their younger children that their older siblings have autism.

“Tell them right now. They’re living it,” Dr. Jim says. He assures the couple that their younger children will understand.

Lori is pregnant again and worries for the fate of her unborn child.

“Over the years, we’ve learned that there definitely is a genetic factor here,” Dr. Jim says. “There is something in the genes of your kids that make them a little vulnerable to a trigger. We still don’t know what that trigger is.” He offers that triggers could be viruses, heavy metals like lead, or other chemicals. “There are a lot of theories.”

Pediatrician Dr. Jay Gordon, who strongly believes that vaccines are a major contributing factor in autism, joins the discussion. “Vaccines, as they are now formulated can cause autism and other problems,” Dr. Gordon says. “Right now, they’re not as safe as they can be.” He advises that Dan and Lori do not vaccinate their unborn child. “You have a genetic, a familial predisposition to children developing autism,” he tells them. “All children who get vaccines don’t get autism. All children with autism are not autistic because of vaccines.”

Dr. Gordon suggests that before parents vaccinate their children, they should educate themselves, find a doctor they trust, and look at their family history for autism, childhood depression and autoimmune diseases. “The very serious Neuroimmunologists are now saying that autism is a neuro-immune disorder,” he says. “I really think that it doesn’t make any sense to give five or six shots to a little baby whose immune system and central nervous system are still a little bit questionable and extremely immature. Wait six months, wait a year. Get counsel. Read as much as you can. But the way that vaccines are manufactured can cause autism. The way that they’re administered can cause autism, and they should be much, much safer.”

On the other side of the debate is Dr. Harvey Karp, who agrees with the many studies that show zero association between vaccines and autism. “If you stop immunizing children, especially in the first year or two, you’re putting them at risk,” he says. “Vaccines are a miracle.” He adds that studies performed in other countries show that when the rate of immunizations go down, the rate of illnesses go up.

Dr. Gordon disagrees. “The studies were not done well. The studies were often funded by the manufacturers of the vaccine,” he refutes. “I don’t vaccinate against any illnesses that pose anywhere near as much a threat to your family as autism does. I admit that if we stop giving certain vaccines, some illnesses might return. I admit that there’s no proof that vaccines cause autism. There’s evidence.” He is adamant that more testing needs to be completed.

Dr. Karp tells Dr. Gordon that he must back his claims with scientific proof. “The only reason we have little disease right now is because so many people are getting their kids immunized,” he says. “If more and more people follow the advice that [Dr. Gordon’s] giving -- to defer these vaccines -- and we see more illness, the children who are going to suffer are not so much the ones who choose not to get the immunizations, but the next-door neighbor and the kids in the preschool, who then spread the illness back to little babies who are not even old enough to get the immunizations yet.”

Dr. Sears weighs in. “I do not want everybody to stop vaccinating, because then we’re going to see polio come back, and kids are going to start dying of measles again,” he says. “In my office, I try to look at each child individually. I want to get them eventually fully vaccinated, unless they have a lot of risk factors for autism.” He looks at Dan and Lori and tells them, “If your family was in my practice, there’s no way I would vaccinate your kids, but I would also talk to you about how to minimize your risks of catching those important illnesses.” He adds that the vaccine companies have taken mercury out of most of childhood vaccines -- a metal people think contribute to developing autism. “I encourage my patients not to blow off vaccines, but I want to do it as safely as I can,” Dr. Jim says, explaining that he starts children at 2 months with the important vaccinations like whooping cough and meningitis, but he only gives one or two at a time. “Some of the more controversial ones, we wait until later,” he says.
Dr. Travis concludes, “Most physicians support vaccination, and we don’t want to go back to a time where when someone comes into the hospital, we’re worried about all of these diseases that have pretty much been wiped out of our children.”[/b][/quote]


Here are excerpts from an older episode in which the discussed autism and vaccines:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvP10cBCTyE



I have been pretty shocked to discover how pro-vax Dr Sears is.
[/b][/quote]

Hey Stac.. Samantha's down for a nap so I'm just finally getting to be able to read all this and start the video.

I love Dr. Sears and Dr. Harvey Karp when applied to AP style thinking. But yeah, they are missing the mark here. I'm so thrilled to see Barbara Fisher on that link and more people who understand choosing not to vaccinate. Honestly I feel like this show had some awesome representation from both sides (for once!) That mother who's child developed autism was so well spoken. I'm so proud of her! They got the education chat a little mixed up but she was right ~ why should parents have to choose autism and vaccines or public school? I was very happy to hear Dr. Jim Sears say that parents should at least have the right to say no to vaccines. Then my favorite was the host doc saying one-size-fits-all theory doesn't even work in regular medicine so why are we doing this with vaccines? I don't know how Barbara Fischer was able to sit beside that other "doctor" and maintain herself. I'm so proud of that mom on stage and BF.

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