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A few questions that are very, well, literal?

Forum: Christian Parenting


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  • 1 Post By mamma_anna

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September 18th, 2012, 08:29 PM
jeweluv's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,420
So, dh and I always have debates/convos about why I feel that JESUS IS our salvation and why I believe the bible literally. I'm still so new so I don't always have the answers; even though I sometimes pretend to. "gotta fake it til' ya make it sometimes ya know?" lol.

Clearly his hear/mind is not in the right place but you just never know how GOD is working and I am always praying. I always think if I can just trap that little intellectual/medical mind of his we might actually get somewhere. It is especially hard for him to entrust in faith because as a doctor, he sees so many illnesses and tragedies happen to patients he cares for and whom he feels doesn't deserve it.

I do try and explain that whatever bad happens here is beause of the nature of our world but it is not our forever. I also said that sometimes the things we feel that are our biggest flaws/struggles are our biggest blessings because sometimes GOD gives them to us because he knows how we work, what could potentially save us, and even though hard, might be for our own good. "Blessing in disguise." Well, recently he diagnosed a patient who he has had for year with Leukemia. He said to me "So, if he dies, then I should tell him and his family that this was maybe a blessing in disguise?" This came on the heels of me recently seeing my psychiatrist about my anxiety, being referred to someone she thinks can help with an acute case, and me coming home and saying I'm going to try to turn to GOD about this and see this as maybe a blessing. My pastor who sends me his sermons just wrote about how Paul might have endured his struggles for similar reasons.

"9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in
weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may
rest upon me."

Well, dh did not see the comparison, and I can't say I blame him, between my trying to look at my OCD differently and his patient with Leukemia. He basically said "okay, so GOD gets the good wrap for giving you this that you struggle with that is a "blessing" but when you say my patient has Leukemia, it is not BECAUSE of GOD but rather our world. Speechless was I.....I hate being speechless.

So..with that came other points to which I did not have answers. Anyone able to shed light?

1. Dh is about proof because he has a scientific mind. He asks "What proof do we have that Moses parted the red seas? Anyone know? I basically said that there were people there her saw and documented and some things you need to take a leap of faith. We believe a lot of history based on what people say and account for.

2. If their was a giant flood, and Noah took two of everything, does that mean that becuase there are over like 30,000 species of birds,some dated very pre-historic, he took two of each of those species? I said he didn't take the animals that could survive the water but he said birds would need land over 40 days. True. LOL...he also asked why the lions didn't eat the lambs? I said they were separated and had their own stalls or something. He looked at me like I had 5 heads and I kind of felt a bit foolish because I had nothing else.

Of course and IRNONICALLY, just as we were having this convo, what comes on the news? This report that a piece of papyrus dating back to the time of JESUS was founda and was translated. It was basically Jesus referring to his wife. dh knew this negates what I believe/christianity believes. I told him you can't believe every source but truthfully I didn't know why this source was any different then the sources I always quote in the bible. Telling him some were god inspired while others are just people, is a hard thing for an unbelieving heart to grasp.

Sorry so many questions...................xoxo HOPE EVERYONE IS HAVING A GREAT DAY!!!
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September 18th, 2012, 10:13 PM
Countrymom4's Avatar Chrystal
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 3,639
1. I did find by googling some scientific proof( sorry not much up on that)
2. Here is a list of animals Could Noah's Ark Hold all the Animals? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. It said
60,200 birds As for the lion and lamb, the animals were not created to eat each other to begin with, but here is a verse
ISAIAH 11:6-8.

6. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
and a little child shall lead them.
7. And the cow and the bear shall feed;
their young ones shall lie down together:
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

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September 19th, 2012, 10:03 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
Ok, I'll answer the numbered questions first

1. If your husband is looking for "proof" of ANYTHING that happened thousands of years ago, he (nor anyone else) is going to find it. All we have for anything that happened that long ago are written records (if that). This is true for any historical event over a certain number of years. If God is God and he has supernatural powers then he can certainly part an ocean. If he can't (because it's not humanly possible) then he's not really God.

3. (because it's shorter lol) As far as something about Jesus being married on some papyrus.....please. So he won't believe the scriptures which have been passed down for thousands of years and he won't believe in the dead sea scrolls but he will believe something contradictory to the Bible found on a piece of papyrus??! The Bible IS God's inspired word. No papyrus writing is the inspired word of God unless someone used papyrus to copy scripture we already know.

2. Genesis 7 tells the story of Noah's ark. Verse 3 says for Noah to take "seven pairs of every kind of bird, male and female..." I'm quite sure there were not nearly as many species of bird at that time as there are now. I'm also quite sure that if the atheist scientist can claim all the 30,000 species of birds came to be from one tiny amoeba after the Big Bang or whatever...then those 30,000 can certainly come from the 7 pairs of every kind Noah had on his ark. I think you are right about there being stalls of some sort on the ark. I feel certain there weren't just wild animals running all over the boat. And again, this was an event ordained by God. It says in Genesis 6 that every creature "will COME TO YOU to be kept alive." I think the way they showed it in Evan Almighty is how it really happened. I think the animals "knew' to come to the ark. God ordained the event. He can keep the animals from eating each other!

Again, it's a lack of belief and rebellion against God that your husband doesn't accept the Bible. I don't mean that harshly. I'm just saying,...even if you could answer all of his questions, they wouldn't satisfy him and it's not as if he's open to what you say actually being the truth. It sounds to me like he's just throwing out all of his ammo to get YOU to doubt and think that what you believe is just silly and illogical.

I know this wasn't part of your question but if Noah's Ark discussion comes up again, Chapters 7 and 8 of Genesis let us know that it RAINED 40 days and nights but there was also a water source in the ground that was released. It says the WATERS prevailed 150 days and then they gradually decreased after 8 MONTHS. After 8 months the tops of the mountains could be seen (still the earth is completely covered!!) Then four months later the earth was dried. So the earth was covered for an entire year. It wasn't just 40 days. The Bible just says "the 2nd month" is when it began and "the 10th month" it decreased and "the 2nd month" of Noah's 601st year, the earth was dried. Noah was 600 when he got on the ark. I just think this is important to know when you are discussing this event. I guess it's such a popular story, everyone knows it...but Christians really need to know all the details and facts beyond just the kind of "nursery rhyme" version we hear as kids.

Ok posting and then i'll answer the sickness/suffering stuff...
~ Ginger

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

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September 19th, 2012, 10:55 PM
mamaginger's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,305
The whole sickness and suffering issue is probably the biggest and hardest issue for Christians. Everyone wants to know how "a loving God" could "allow" such terrible things to happen to "innocent" people. First, you are right that sickness, suffering and death were NOT God's plan. We brought it on ourselves. (I don't mean individual illnesses in specific people....I just mean mankind in general).

The things that came from the Fall of man were:
Shame (they sewed fig leaves to hide their nakedness),
Blame and Denial (that woman you gave me made me eat it.....the serpent tricked me, etc.),
Pain and difficulty in childbearing (Gen. 3: 16)
Ground is cursed and will produce thorns and thistles (vs 17 and 18)
Death (ch.2 vs. 17) - God warned them ahead of time that death would come.

Ok, so the Fall caused all of these things. God's plan was for man to only know "good" and not evil, to live in the garden and eat from the tree of life and live forever in fellowship with him. It was actually an act of mercy that God drove them out of the Garden and didn't allow them to eat from the Tree of Life after they had sinned. (chapter 3 vs 22) If they had, then they would have lived forever in their fallen state. Death is what allows us to be changed and resurrected and live eternally redeemed from our sin.

This body is "corruptible" but when we die and are resurrected we will have "incorruptible" bodies. This body is described as a "tent" but in heaven we will have a "building." (I can't remember the references for these right now but I can find them later...but the words I'm putting in quotes are actually used in the Bible) How much better is it to be in a building rather than a tent? This tent is going to be battered and torn but our eternal "building" will never suffer and will live forever. We will all suffer in different ways in this life. I don't know why some seem to suffer more than others. But suffering for a christian is supposed to be seen as "sharing" Christ's suffering. What he endured was horrific. But wasn't it the most wonderful thing in the entire world? What if he hadn't endured it? He prayed for God to "take this cup" from him. He could've walked away for fear of the pain and suffering but he didn't. I can't complain about ANYTHING I have to endure when I think about what he went through. We've got to have the mindset that this life IS just a "vapor" as the Bible says. It's the next life that we should be concerned with and "storing up our treasure" for.

Someone at my church always says, "If you're a christian then this (life on earth) is the only Hell you'll ever know." How wonderful is that??! As bad as things sometimes can be, if this is as bad as it will ever be for me then I am blessed!!

It's late so i don't have time to look up tons of verses for this but I did want to make one thing very clear. I DO NOT believe its "God's will" for people to have certain illnesses or afflictions. I don't think you can say that EVERY illness is just because of the Fall of man but I also absolutely do not believe God picks an illness out of a basket and randomly assigns it to someone as a "blessing in disguise." There are definitely verses that talk about people being afflicted BECAUSE of their sins. There are even instances where suffering/death comes to a child because of a parent (David's adultery and murder caused his son to die). I HATE that example but it's what really happened, sadly. Does this mean God is going to kill your child because of your sins? Absolutely not. God is sovereign. He did allow that to happen in David's life but that doesn't mean its going to happen to anyone else or if you have lost a child that it was because of some sin. I don't believe that at all. The main thing Jesus did in his 3 year ministry was HEAL. And every time there is a story of him healing, it says he healed ALL who came to him. ALL. He took stripes on his back for our healing. God's desire is for us to be healthy and whole. Yes, he can USE a sickness for good but that doesn't mean he caused it. I do believe God chooses the weak to do his work so that HE gets the glory for it and not man. God never chose the strongest, most well-spoken or intelligent. Moses had a speech impediment. Peter had a horrible MOUTH and was always saying the wrong thing. Saul/Paul was a murderer of Christians. David was the youngest and weakest of all his brothers but God chose HIM to defeat Goliath. So yes, he will choose the weak and his strength can be perfect in our weakness IF we turn to him.

I don't believe God gave you OCD. I believe he wants to heal you of it. The greatest testimony you could give to your husband is for him to see the change in you....for him to witness God's new creature that he has made in you. Your life will be the example to him. God will use you to show your husband that he is God. It may not even be in the way you think. It probably won't be in a debate/discussion. It probably won't be because you finally answered all of his questions. It will be that he sees that you have truly been reborn and changed. Your godly example and prayers will be what changes him. Keep praying for God to soften his heart, open his eyes and ears and for the Holy Spirit to draw him.

Ok....goin to bed!! Love ya!
~ Ginger

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb...I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made...My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together...Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Psalm 139: 13-16

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September 20th, 2012, 10:41 AM
mamma_anna's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,953
Once again ladies, you've already done a great job of answering all these questions. I would've said basically the same thing so I can't think of anything to add.

I'll just say that I think the fact that you're even having these conversations with your husband is further proof that the Holy Spirit is already working in him through you. Ginger is right that a "debate" or answering all his questions on an intelectual level might not be what ultimately opens his heart to Christ. "Leading by example" so to speak, showing him your heart, that will reach his soul in a way that filling his mind with knowledge never will. But I think both pieces are important. I'll be praying that the Spirit continues to work in him. (and in you )
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September 23rd, 2012, 12:58 PM
jeweluv's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,420
WOW, again...thaks so much!! LOVE YOU GALS!! I feel like I am starting to grasp it all a little more.

So, GOD doesn't intend or allo disease/tragedy correct? It's almost like if it happens, he may not cure or fix it? Or, he will use it as an opportunity to maybe teach us something. He took that guy's son's life bc of the sins of the father and although he may not do that to us, do you think it is a possibility?

I love all the scripture and pictures you are giving me. It's so helpful. I really hope you are right about DH. It's very funny bc sometimes the things that we THINK will convince someone, are the least likely to be.
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