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withdrawing troops from Iraq


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  #1  
May 3rd, 2008, 08:36 PM
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I know this is going to spark a debate... i hope it doesnt get messy. I just want to know what other peoples opinions are.

Do u think the troops should be withdrawn from Iraq? if so do you think they should be taken all at once or withdrawn slowly over the course of many years? how long do u think a typical deployment should be? is 15 months too long? is 6 months too little?

im not giving my opinion just yet.. im just curious.
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  #2  
May 3rd, 2008, 08:39 PM
Nyzira's Avatar Just call me Bam.
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15 months and multiple deployments are FAR too much. Yes we need to pull our troops out. This has gone on long enough. Those people never even asked for our help and honestly, it's not our business to tell other people how to run their countries... hell, we can't even run our own right. Pull 'em all out as fast as humanly possible and let them fight it out on their own.

I don't see other countries running to our "rescue" when we have problems.
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  #3  
May 3rd, 2008, 08:48 PM
short_n_swt's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I'm kind of getting sick of this debate. But I'll throw my two cents in anyways, to me, it doesn't matter. It's a case of your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't.
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  #4  
May 3rd, 2008, 09:02 PM
Little Mrs Sunshine
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I think deployments often last too long. Considering they are pretty much on the clock for work 24/7... its not like they get paid overtime... they are salary. If a company had someone working those kinds of hours on a salary it would be considered wrong, but its okay for the government to work them those kinds of hours and keep them away from family. As they risk their lives to, in eyes of those who deployed them, fight for our country. I think they deserve more then they are getting for what they do. I'm sure the government doesnt want the expense of sending people back and forth and find longer deployments "easier" on them, but I still don't think its right. I think they should get to be home more. I think there should get some kind of paternity leave and emergency leave time as well...

I wont get into the second half of the question as I kind of agree with above poster. seems to be a lose/lose situation. I wish the men fighting the governments wars would be given more respect from the government though. I don't feel they get what they deserve for what their job entails. I think the soldiers and family of the soldiers are being taken advantage of. I also think its sad a woman on medicaid can see pretty much any dr where I live, but my friend's husband is in the coast guard and their insurance is only accepted at 2 dr's within an hour of here. Those men deserve more benefits - which includes shorter deployments.
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  #5  
May 3rd, 2008, 09:13 PM
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i agree with everything said above. part of me wants my husband home and i dont want him to go back... but i know that on the grand scale of things i feel like we are "damd if we do and dammd if we dont".
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  #6  
May 4th, 2008, 12:28 AM
MissTorrieIfYou'reNasty's Avatar Co-Host of Heated Debates
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The new Iraqi government consistently decides that it's more important to take month long breaks than fix their mess of a political situation. They recently gave the president of Iran a red carpet welcome when he visited. Time to start getting out of there. Maybe it will light a fire under the government.
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  #7  
May 4th, 2008, 08:36 AM
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First, I want to say that many times--those who are deployed for 6 months at a time, deploy far more frequently than those who deploy for a year or more. It is going to suck either way. If they're gone for 15 months, they're missing a huge chunk of time with the family, but on the other hand-they then have a huge chunk of time with the family. My husband does 7 month deployments every 10 months--soon changing thank God! This only gives us 10 months to learn to live together again, and for them to learn how to raise their child at whatever stage they are in--but by the time he figures it out and everything is back to normal-he leaves again!

I don't think length of deployment really has much bearing on it. It sucks either way. THey're either going to be fatigued and stressed from frequent deployments, or fatigued and stressed from a long deployment.

And I agree with the darned if you do, darned if you don't I guess. I want them to come home because it breaks my heart to hear about our guys dying over there. But then, I feel like we should leave having done something. I dunno.
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  #8  
May 4th, 2008, 09:32 AM
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tre' can be home for just a year before he gets deplloyed again. i think id rather the 7 months.
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  #9  
May 4th, 2008, 09:36 AM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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I don't have an awful lot of knowledge on the war in the middle east, so it's hard for me to make too many comments.

I would love to see Canada and the US (and any other country meddling over there) to pull out and send their men home. We've made a point to the terrorists, now we're just fueling their hatred against our countries. Going in and trying to change a government (even if the country wants the help) is not going to stop terror.. and that's what we're still fighting... right... the war on terror? (I can still remember the moment I looked up at the TV and said, wait, what's the US doing in Iraq.. weren't they in Afghanistan?)

Deployments are being lengthened now because people are saying that people don't have enough time to learn the land and everything thats going on over there in 6 months. I think this is a shame for families, because they're losing a loved one for a year or more! I think there should be a limit on deployment (9 months maybe) and no more than 2 or 3 total.

I think you military wives are the strongest people in the world. I can't handle my SO's being away for more than a few days, let alone being gone for months at a time.
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  #10  
May 5th, 2008, 08:00 AM
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The way I read it, the original post wasn't so much about deployment cycles as with pulling out of Iraq. The short version of my response is that I feel it was necessary to remove Saddam and having done so it is necessary to ensure a stable replacement government is in place to fill the power vacuum, and for that reason it is not appropriate to talk about withdrawing in 6 or 15 months as it is not yet clear that sufficient stability is in place to prevent more nefarious powers from filling the power vacuum.

As historical precident, I'll say that we've been asked for help before and didn't give it. More can be read here:
http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/mena/marsharabs1.htm

The risks of pulling out are a return to such a regime.

A high probability risk would be Iraq being overtaken by Iran. Human rights violations in Iran have been getting worse lately. Iran still uses the death sentence by stoning for adultery, see this report from 2006:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/06/iran17989.htm

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  #11  
May 5th, 2008, 02:31 PM
mtowcs09's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Pull out, pull out, pull out! I never agreed with this "war" in the first place and I'm pissed off that we were tricked to go there. It'll take forever to pull out successfully. My brothers platoon has already been trying to leave for a few weeks now (some of it's gone and he's still there). I also believe that deployments are TOO long!! My brother missed a good portion of my life and left when I had no one else at the time. He missed a lot of me maturing and a birthday and will miss my next few birthdays (he'll leave AGAIN in January).

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  #12  
July 22nd, 2008, 11:38 AM
$pryNinja's Avatar Zef Fre$ Mom
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Quote:
I know this is going to spark a debate... i hope it doesnt get messy. I just want to know what other peoples opinions are.

Do u think the troops should be withdrawn from Iraq? if so do you think they should be taken all at once or withdrawn slowly over the course of many years? how long do u think a typical deployment should be? is 15 months too long? is 6 months too little?

im not giving my opinion just yet.. im just curious.[/b]
I totally think they shouldn't be there at all. This war is now just being sustained for the sake of making money. I feel bad for all the troops over their fighting and I hope they are all home soon
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  #14  
July 25th, 2008, 12:13 AM
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The war is a crime and a horror and we need to get out yesterday, if possible. All the people forecasting how horrible things will be if we leave are the same people who were wrong about absolutely everything to begin with.[/b]
I agree. If the war had been handled properly all along, I might say that hey, you've come this far... might as well finish the job. But it's illegal and unwinnable and needs to end NOW. I didn't necessarily agree with going into Afghanistan, although I could see why that happened... I don't know how the US got from there to Iraq, but the fact that they basically left Afghanistan to Canada... hey, we're only there because the US went there... our soldiers are dying at an alarming rate for no good reason and it needs to stop.

I agree Saddam had to go, but he's gone... eventually you're going to have to cut the umbillical cord and let the Iraqi people figure stuff out for themselves. They never ASKED the US to be their knights in shining armor anyway. I recently read "Baghdad Blog" by Salam Pax, and he makes an interesting point in it (I'll try to find the exact quote tomorrow, it's late and I don't have the book on hand) where he says something, after someone commented that he should be 'grateful' for the US coming in and 'saving' him, that he never asked for their help, so why, when they come in and blow up his home, should he turn around and thank them?

I also agree with tithen loth nim (sorry, I don't know your name ) that military wives are the strongest people in the world. I couldn't take having my SO away from me for so long. And I agree with Little Mrs. Sunshine (again... bad with names) that soldiers deserve more respect from the government sending them over there. I disagree with the war, but I think soldiers deserve WAY more than they get for what they do. Whether you agree with the cause or not, they're putting themselves in danger every day, and they didn't necessarily choose to be there in the first place.

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  #15  
July 25th, 2008, 08:56 AM
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I totally think they shouldn't be there at all. This war is now just being sustained for the sake of making money. I feel bad for all the troops over their fighting and I hope they are all home soon [/b]
I'm glad that you and your uninformed opinion and blind acceptance of hyperbole will not be eligible to vote in the upcoming United States presidential election. Unfortunately there are similarly deluded people who will. I'm sorry you believe these crazy things like the war is being sustained for profit and 9/11 was an inside job, but that's all so crazy that responding almost seems unnecessary because it's obvious how wrong and unfounded your positions are.

Quote:
The war is a crime and a horror and we need to get out yesterday, if possible. All the people forecasting how horrible things will be if we leave are the same people who were wrong about absolutely everything to begin with.[/b]
Not much better, but I know you've been in discussions before... How you can still hold views that are so contradictory to the real facts is puzzling.

The people who have been proven wrong would be Barack Obama who opposed the troop surge that has turned around the trends and resulted in Iraq all but disappearing from the headlines. But now he's not so hot on pulling the troops out either.

Where do you even begin with this? Who is it you think was wrong about what? Was someone wrong about the over 500 tons of uranium yellow cake that has been removed from Iraq and is now in Canada?

Quote:
I agree. If the war had been handled properly all along, I might say that hey, you've come this far... might as well finish the job.[/b]
But why would you think that now? There is a very strong arguement to be made that it is being properly handled now. I think abandoning Iraq now before the job is finished because it was at some earlier point handled poorly is a worse position than not going there at all up front. We're there now and the only justification for a pull-out before the job is finished is that the situation has deteriorated to a point where it is hopeuless, which at no point has that been the case especially now.

Recommended reading would be this about a recent John McCain speech detailing how the troop surge was successful and the correct strategy, cross posted from the political discussions forum by Christy72:
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2...on-afghanistan/

Quote:
But it's illegal and unwinnable and needs to end NOW.[/b]
All three points are wrong. It's one thing to oppose war, but that doesn't excuse making up things like this that have no real basis in fact. Not that I'm saying you made it up, but at its roots wherever it is that you've been fed these lines from that's where these untrue things have been made up.

Quote:
t necessarily agree with going into Afghanistan, although I could see why that happened... I don't know how the US got from there to Iraq, but the fact that they basically left Afghanistan to Canada... hey, we're only there because the US went there... our soldiers are dying at an alarming rate for no good reason and it needs to stop.[/b]
No US troops have been removed from Afghanistan to go to Iraq.

Quote:
Saddam had to go, but he's gone... eventually you're going to have to cut the umbillical cord and let the Iraqi people figure stuff out for themselves. They never ASKED the US to be their knights in shining armor anyway. I recently read "Baghdad Blog" by Salam Pax, and he makes an interesting point in it (I'll try to find the exact quote tomorrow, it's late and I don't have the book on hand) where he says something, after someone commented that he should be 'grateful' for the US coming in and 'saving' him, that he never asked for their help, so why, when they come in and blow up his home, should he turn around and thank them?[/b]
Salam Pax has neither said anything in 3 or 4 years nor , AFAIK, has he resided in Iraq in that time. He may have had some legitimate criticisms, but since his postings strategic changes have taken place - much of which were put in place under General Petraeus and the troop surge, which you can read in greater detail in John McCain's speech linked above.

But I'll also point out that there was a part of the push that did come from Iraqi refugees. If there is any doubt that there was a desire to have Saddam removed, one only needs to look at the Marsh Arabs uprising in the '90's. Which is also an example of how well Saddam could brutally suppress any such efforts absent outside intervention.
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  #16  
July 25th, 2008, 08:59 AM
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I think your best bet would be to talk to the men and women who are actually going over there. Just about all of them (and I won't say ALL because that would be incredibly stupid of me) think that we need to remain over there. Whether I agree with this war or not, and I absolutely do not, I do think that the actual soldiers should have the majority say.
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  #17  
July 25th, 2008, 10:11 AM
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For that kind of purpose, if you don't know any that you can talk to or whatever, there is a currently airing series on PBS called "Carrier" that is interesting. I think it might be giving a perspective that's a little different in bias because they almost seem to give equal time to service men and women who oppose the war compared with support the war, and there is a focus on drama....

And it's a camera crew that is embedded on one aircraft carrier (thus very few of these people have boots on the ground in Iraq in an active duty capacity) so this is just one particular perspective... But you get a sense that even among those who have opinions opposing the war, they are there to do a job as a part of a whole that is acting in service as their President and elected officials deem necessary.

I'd also point out that the time of filming was in the 2005 timeframe, so it also doesn't reflect the current state of affairs - and in particular, it reflects a time before the troop surge which I think is a significant milestone in any discussion of Iraq.
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  #18  
July 25th, 2008, 10:31 AM
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i just want my hubby to come home. call me selfish i dont care.
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  #19  
July 25th, 2008, 06:57 PM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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As a military wife myself I understand wanting your husband to come home. But our spouses signed up for this, and most do believe that at this moment in time we cannot pull out.
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  #20  
July 25th, 2008, 09:09 PM
$pryNinja's Avatar Zef Fre$ Mom
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How you can still hold views that are so contradictory to the real facts is puzzling.[/b]
What do you think are the real facts?

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I'm glad that you and your uninformed opinion and blind acceptance of hyperbole will not be eligible to vote in the upcoming United States presidential election.[/b]
I could say the same about you, unfortunately you do get to vote! But I don't really think it matters who wins the election, things will probably go in the same direction no matter what.
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