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  #1  
May 11th, 2008, 11:03 AM
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Is the babywise method a good one for raising children?
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  #2  
May 11th, 2008, 11:22 AM
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My former pediatrician SWEARS by that method. He gave me a schedule that showed a "typical" baby schedule at different ages, and it showed by 12 weeks a baby should be sleeping 10+ hours a night. My kids never did that (probably because I didn't use the method because I couldn't find the book--I'll admit I didn't look too hard though.) I've heard it works for some people and their babies didn't suffer any ill effects. I didn't like it mainly because I don't like letting babies that little CIO. I don't have so much of a problem with letting an older baby CIO, but not a newborn. I think it would work best for FF, not so much if you REALLY want to breastfeed successfully.
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  #3  
May 11th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Gracey and Evan's Ma
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I dont think babies are meant to be on schedules, otherwise it would come natural..

Not a babywise fan.. in fact, Im quite ANTI-babywise.
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  #4  
May 11th, 2008, 12:01 PM
irishxrose
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Quote:
I dont think babies are meant to be on schedules, otherwise it would come natural..

Not a babywise fan.. in fact, Im quite ANTI-babywise.[/b]
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  #5  
May 11th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Little Mrs Sunshine
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Quote:
Quote:
I dont think babies are meant to be on schedules, otherwise it would come natural..

Not a babywise fan.. in fact, Im quite ANTI-babywise.[/b]

[/b]

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  #6  
May 11th, 2008, 01:28 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Everything I've read about it makes me want to avoid it like the plague. I do know another couple who used it, and their child seems to be fine, although the baby was FF. I think the Babywise methods are complete crap for BF'ing. But even though the methods seemed to work for them, I've noticed that they try to adhere to a schedule so much so that at times I think it creates more stress for them that could be avoided if they were more flexible.

I think it's interesting that my daughter pretty much put herself on a schedule without any influence,, just by us following her cues. Now, whether that's typical or we are just blessed, I don't know.

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  #7  
May 11th, 2008, 02:38 PM
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Not a fan here either. We weren't big schedulers with the kids when they were babies. They ate when they were hungry, slept when they were sleepy(and in our bed), and were held ALOT. Its what worked/works for us.
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  #8  
May 11th, 2008, 07:22 PM
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I think Babywise should be banned in this country, and I DO consider it abuse.
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  #9  
May 11th, 2008, 08:15 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'd like to know what makes it baby"wise" because I don't think it is good for babies personally. I also COMPLETELY agree that I can't see how any of it applies in BF babies...since ALL major health organizations recommend BF on demand & that typically means every 2 hrs for a LONG time...they do not currently recommend scheduling a BF baby at all.
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  #10  
May 11th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Just Nana's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I did some reading on this because I had never heard of it before. From all I read I know I would never use it for sure even if I could have more children
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  #11  
May 11th, 2008, 10:23 PM
Spud'sMom
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Quote:
Not a fan here either. We weren't big schedulers with the kids when they were babies. They ate when they were hungry, slept when they were sleepy(and in our bed), and were held ALOT. Its what worked/works for us.[/b]

This could be my post. I read the first chapter and was so turned off I freecycled the book.
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  #12  
May 12th, 2008, 12:07 AM
~Jess~'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Source

Quote:
the Babywise schedule has not been demonstrated to be safe, and the American Academy of Pediatrics has issued a warning against parent-determined feeding schedules.[/b]
Quote:
Naptimes are also scheduled, and feedings must follow naps, not precede them. According to Babywise, you don't feed the baby and then put him down for a nap, you put him down for his nap and only after his nap do you feed him. Ezzo tells parents to harden their hearts, because crying is a normal and expected part of the baby's day, and it should not tempt them to intervene inappropriately.[/b]
This is referring to NEWBORN babies!

Even FERBER is anti-babywise. That's really saying something. I'm not one to easily use the abuse card, but: ABUSE!!!!
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  #13  
May 12th, 2008, 07:06 AM
zzz's Avatar
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It works for some parents, but I am against pretty much everything in that book. My son doesn't have a "schedule" other than when he's hungry, he eats, and when he's tired, he sleeps. It seems like babywise wants us to raise robots, not children.


Lisa

Quote:
Naptimes are also scheduled, and feedings must follow naps, not precede them. According to Babywise, you don't feed the baby and then put him down for a nap, you put him down for his nap and only after his nap do you feed him. Ezzo tells parents to harden their hearts, because crying is a normal and expected part of the baby's day, and it should not tempt them to intervene inappropriately.[/b]
That makes me sick...


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  #14  
May 12th, 2008, 09:39 AM
LaLa's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Found these and thought it was interesting:

http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/forministry.pdf

Also wanted to chime in and say: on the advice of fellow coworkers (we live in the bible belt btw lol), we took a local class called "Growing Kids Gods Way". Now - I will say, my DH & I are not religious at all, my DH a little, but not me.

But, we figured the parenting is what we were really after, and took the class.

Now, I will say - I did not find the child/teen program all that bad. It was basic stuff, though I dont agree with the REASONING behind it all.

THe main things we were taught:
sign with your children when they are young - to encourage development, communication, and to lessen whining. The biggest goal was clear - reduce whining.

Children should answer parents "Yes mommy", "no mommy", "yes daddy" and "no daddY". I dont have a problem with that. I do think children should show parents some level of respect, and ma'am and sir are too formal for home. For elders ma'am and sir are fine, and yes respect is earned, but on the same token, there is an authority in the house, and that is that parents are the parents, and they are the voice of authority in the house for the purpose of keeping children safe.

Husbands should show their wives respect, to teach their sons how to treat women, to show that his wife is to be respected as his wife (by children, friends, family alike), and that he should always show her affection in frotn of the children. THis also teaches daughters that they deserve respect & sets an example. When he walks in the door each day after work, he should always greet his wife then children. Again to show that he loves his wife, respects his wife, then always hug & kiss each child.

THey encourage first time obedience, not counting to 3. Once you obtain first time obedience, children may earn the right to "rebut" basically - but they have to ask permission. I forget the phrase they use, but its like 'May i appeal?" or something. We found this worked wonders for us b/c I was so sick & tired of hearing "but mom........". My name is NOT BUT MOM! My son must say "yes mom, and mom... may i ask something?" and i always say yes, and he usually says "can i finish my show first?" or whatever, and if its reasonable, i say sure. Its cut down on a LOT of problems in our house.

Finally - the interrupt rule -all family members use it - children esp. If someones talking & they want to interrupt - you have them put their hand on you (arm, leg, etc) and hold it there until theyre acknowledge ("one moment", just looking and noddinmg & holding up one finger, etc. Then when the persons done talking, acknowledge the child.

Oh, last thing - always encourage the behavior you want when they do something bad. If they lie, encourage the opposite - honesty. If they manipulate, encourage the opposite, unselfishness.

The rest of it was for the birds, but then again - we were dealing with children & teens, and not sleep training, etc. We didnt find it all that bad, but decided the program as a whole was not for us.

Later on, we found out about baby wise, and every single person we knew who followed it quit BFing b/c of it *(low supply, failure to thrive, etc).

EVERY one of them.

Its clearly not for BFing parents, and most of it does borderline on neglect and abuse when its not ALL OUT neglect & abuse. Their methods of CIO, training, etc... I just find it difficult that people can find it works for them.

*shrug*.

Lala...
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  #15  
May 12th, 2008, 11:04 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
Found these and thought it was interesting:

http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/forministry.pdf

Also wanted to chime in and say: on the advice of fellow coworkers (we live in the bible belt btw lol), we took a local class called "Growing Kids Gods Way". Now - I will say, my DH & I are not religious at all, my DH a little, but not me.

But, we figured the parenting is what we were really after, and took the class.

Now, I will say - I did not find the child/teen program all that bad. It was basic stuff, though I dont agree with the REASONING behind it all.

THe main things we were taught:
sign with your children when they are young - to encourage development, communication, and to lessen whining. The biggest goal was clear - reduce whining.

Children should answer parents "Yes mommy", "no mommy", "yes daddy" and "no daddY". I dont have a problem with that. I do think children should show parents some level of respect, and ma'am and sir are too formal for home. For elders ma'am and sir are fine, and yes respect is earned, but on the same token, there is an authority in the house, and that is that parents are the parents, and they are the voice of authority in the house for the purpose of keeping children safe.

Husbands should show their wives respect, to teach their sons how to treat women, to show that his wife is to be respected as his wife (by children, friends, family alike), and that he should always show her affection in frotn of the children. THis also teaches daughters that they deserve respect & sets an example. When he walks in the door each day after work, he should always greet his wife then children. Again to show that he loves his wife, respects his wife, then always hug & kiss each child.

THey encourage first time obedience, not counting to 3. Once you obtain first time obedience, children may earn the right to "rebut" basically - but they have to ask permission. I forget the phrase they use, but its like 'May i appeal?" or something. We found this worked wonders for us b/c I was so sick & tired of hearing "but mom........". My name is NOT BUT MOM! My son must say "yes mom, and mom... may i ask something?" and i always say yes, and he usually says "can i finish my show first?" or whatever, and if its reasonable, i say sure. Its cut down on a LOT of problems in our house.

Finally - the interrupt rule -all family members use it - children esp. If someones talking & they want to interrupt - you have them put their hand on you (arm, leg, etc) and hold it there until theyre acknowledge ("one moment", just looking and noddinmg & holding up one finger, etc. Then when the persons done talking, acknowledge the child.

Oh, last thing - always encourage the behavior you want when they do something bad. If they lie, encourage the opposite - honesty. If they manipulate, encourage the opposite, unselfishness.

The rest of it was for the birds, but then again - we were dealing with children & teens, and not sleep training, etc. We didnt find it all that bad, but decided the program as a whole was not for us.

Later on, we found out about baby wise, and every single person we knew who followed it quit BFing b/c of it *(low supply, failure to thrive, etc).

EVERY one of them.

Its clearly not for BFing parents, and most of it does borderline on neglect and abuse when its not ALL OUT neglect & abuse. Their methods of CIO, training, etc... I just find it difficult that people can find it works for them.

*shrug*.

Lala...[/b]
Thanks so much for posting this. I am going to try some of it TODAY. My older DD is in the "But mom!" phase and I can't take it anymore.
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  #16  
May 12th, 2008, 11:05 AM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Location: Indiana
Posts: 3,531
I have not read or heard a whole lot about this...however what I DO know about it makes me sick. I am so sad for those babies who's parents follow/ed this method. Babies are to be loved and cared for and their needs tended to. They are not supposed to follow the parent's schedule......the parents had the babies, the parents need to follow the baby's schedule!! And I agree, if babies were meant to be on schedules that young, it would come natural to them and they wouldnt have to CIO to get to that point.


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  #17  
May 12th, 2008, 11:34 AM
Tofu Bacon
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Here's the funny thing about people who defend BW: almost none of them actually follow it! As soon as they get backed into a corner they backpedal with "Oh, well I don't follow that part..." Well, then you're not following BW sweetie. I suppose it can work with a formlua-fed baby, but I don't see how its even possible to exclusively breastfeed following BW.

As an ignorant and insecure new mama, I tried to follow BW with my elder child. My newborn was happy and did sleep through the night by 8 weeks (without CIO)...but my milk dried up within a few short weeks. It was so not flippin worth it, plus I felt like a slave to his schedule, plus the author's concept of discipline really skeeved me so we ditched it after about 5 or 6 months and started parenting by instinct instead. The one thing that really stands out in my memory with BW is how dropping a feeding starts to become a "milestone" of sorts; you become so wrapped up in getting baby to go 4 hours between feedings . This time around, my baby nurses whenever she's hungry, sleeps whenever she's tired...and its soooo much easier not to stategically plan outtings around nap schedules, or freak out about how Daylight Savings might throw off the almighty schedule!

Before you are too hard on parents who try BW, please remember that it is very alluring to inexperienced new parents, especially those who haven't been around infants long enough to have realistic expectations. Most are not bad people (or even bad parents), or out to control our babies. Most started out with the best of intentions...which includes the misguided notion that babies "need" a schedule; they think they are doing the right thing. Check out the Voices of Experience section on ezzo.info (my story is posted on there, too):
http://ezzo.info/voices.htm
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  #18  
May 12th, 2008, 12:24 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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Location: in my house
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Quote:
I think Babywise should be banned in this country, and I DO consider it abuse.[/b]
DITTO!


Quote:
One such book, On Becoming Babywise, has raised concern among pediatricians because it outlines an infant feeding program that has been associated with failure to thrive (FTT), poor weight gain, dehydration, breast milk supply failure, and involuntary early weaning. A Forsyth Medical Hospital Review Committee, in Winston-Salem N.C., has listed 11 areas in which the program is inadequately supported by conventional medical practice. The Child Abuse Prevention Council of Orange County, Calif., stated its concern after physicians called them with reports of dehydration, slow growth and development, and FTT associated with the program. And on Feb. 8, AAP District IV passed a resolution asking the Academy to investigate "Babywise," determine the extent of its effects on infant health and alert its members, other organizations and parents of its findings.

I have reviewed numerous accounts of low weight gain and FTT associated with "Babywise" and discussed them with several pediatricians and lactation consultants involved.

The book's feeding schedule, called Parent Directed Feeding (PDF), consists of feeding newborns at intervals of three to three and one-half hours (described as two and one-half to three hours from the end of the last 30-minute feeding) beginning at birth. Nighttime feedings are eliminated at eight weeks.

This advice is in direct opposition to the latest AAP recommendations on newborn feeding (AAP Policy Statement, "Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk," Pediatrics, Dec. 1997): "Newborns should be nursed whenever they show signs of hunger, such as increased alertness or activity, mouthing, or rooting. Crying is a late indicator of hunger. Newborns should be nursed approximately eight to 12 times every 24 hours until satiety."[/b]
Quote:
In a question-and-answer section, parents of a 2-week-old baby, who did not get a full feeding at the last scheduled time and wants to eat again, are instructed that babies learn quickly from the laws of natural consequences. "If your daughter doesn't eat at one feeding, then make her wait until the next one."[/b]
Quote:
Examples of the many other unsubstantiated medical claims in "Babywise" include:

* "Lack of regularity [in feeding intervals] sends a negative signal to the baby's body, creating metabolic confusion that negatively affects his or her hunger, digestive, and sleep/wake cycles."
* "Demand-fed babies don't sleep through the night."
* "A mother who takes her baby to her breast 12, 15, or 20 times a day will not produce any more milk than the mom who takes her baby to breast six to seven times a day."
* "Mothers following PDF have little or no problem with the let down reflex, compared to those who demand-feed."
* "Colic, which basically is a spasm in the baby's intestinal tract that causes pain, is very rare in PDF babies but is intensified in demand-fed babies."
* "In our opinion, much more developmental damage is done to a child by holding him or her constantly than by putting the baby down. In terms of biomechanics alone, carrying a baby in a sling can increase neck and back problems, or even create them."[/b]
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  #19  
May 12th, 2008, 10:04 PM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Lucky for me I had been a part of this site during my pregnancy and heard complaints about Baby Wise so I knew not to even get the book. From the little I know of it it isn't something I'd ever consider using. I don't believe in scheduling a baby.

Within a few months my son began to schedule himself a bit. He'd nap right around the same time each day and eat at roughly the same times. That "schedule" would last maybe a few weeks and then change as his needs changed. I just go with the flow. I can tell when he's tired so I put him down for his nap. I can usually tell when he's hungry so I feed him. I do try to keep somewhat of a feeding routine as in breakfast, lunch, and dinner now that he's older. However, he's never denied food if he's hungry at other times during the day.
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  #20  
May 13th, 2008, 07:24 AM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Location: Indiana
Posts: 3,531
Quote:
Here's the funny thing about people who defend BW: almost none of them actually follow it! As soon as they get backed into a corner they backpedal with "Oh, well I don't follow that part..." Well, then you're not following BW sweetie. I suppose it can work with a formlua-fed baby, but I don't see how its even possible to exclusively breastfeed following BW.

As an ignorant and insecure new mama, I tried to follow BW with my elder child. My newborn was happy and did sleep through the night by 8 weeks (without CIO)...but my milk dried up within a few short weeks. It was so not flippin worth it, plus I felt like a slave to his schedule, plus the author's concept of discipline really skeeved me so we ditched it after about 5 or 6 months and started parenting by instinct instead. The one thing that really stands out in my memory with BW is how dropping a feeding starts to become a "milestone" of sorts; you become so wrapped up in getting baby to go 4 hours between feedings . This time around, my baby nurses whenever she's hungry, sleeps whenever she's tired...and its soooo much easier not to stategically plan outtings around nap schedules, or freak out about how Daylight Savings might throw off the almighty schedule!

Before you are too hard on parents who try BW, please remember that it is very alluring to inexperienced new parents, especially those who haven't been around infants long enough to have realistic expectations. Most are not bad people (or even bad parents), or out to control our babies. Most started out with the best of intentions...which includes the misguided notion that babies "need" a schedule; they think they are doing the right thing. Check out the Voices of Experience section on ezzo.info (my story is posted on there, too):
http://ezzo.info/voices.htm[/b]

The thing here is, you tried it...you found that it was not right for your child and you stopped...you didnt continue on, forcing your baby to suffer through it all, you realized that it just was not right, it didnt work, and you didnt like it, so you stopped. Thats great!! My problem is with the parents who use this continually. They dont find it wrong, or they do and they still follow it. You said the discipline "skeeved" you so you ditched it. Thats also great! There are so many parents who follow this like it's the Holy word and I just feel really sad for those babies. As parents we make mistakes...LOTS of mistakes usually and especially as first time parents. I know I did! I read every book I could think of and tried following everything to a "T" and I still managed to forget to strap DS in his carseat while transporting him upstairs to the bedroom and he slid right out of the bottom of it onto the floor at 6 weeks old! Talk about a hysterical mommy! We ALL make mistakes. Big ones and little ones. But as long as we learn from them, thats whats important. You said you dont use BW with your second child and youve seen first hand how much better it is. I commend you for really looking at what you were doing with your first child, recognizing that it just wasnt right, and changing that. Its the parents who follow BW consistently and dont see a problem or dont care that I have a big problem with.


Casey
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