Log In Sign Up

Reality TV...


Forum: Heated Debates

Notices

Welcome to the JustMommies Message Boards.

We pride ourselves on having the friendliest and most welcoming forums for moms and moms to be! Please take a moment and register for free so you can be a part of our growing community of mothers. If you have any problems registering please drop an email to [email protected].

Our community is moderated by our moderation team so you won't see spam or offensive messages posted on our forums. Each of our message boards is hosted by JustMommies hosts, whose names are listed at the top each board. We hope you find our message boards friendly, helpful, and fun to be on!

Reply Post New Topic
  Subscribe To Heated Debates LinkBack Topic Tools Search this Topic Display Modes
  #1  
May 13th, 2008, 07:41 AM
SugarNSpice's Avatar VBAC Mommy!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 6,463
I've seen a lot of people saying that by having the cameras around and having all these specials about their lives, the Duggars are exploiting their children and taking advantage of the "freebies" and publicity, etc., and like it's a bad thing or something. "Sure, must be easy to raise 18 kids when you have all this freebies and money coming in".......

So....is it JUST not okay for the Duggars or for ALL families that choose to participate in these TV programs?? What about Jon & Kate Plus 8 (one of my fav shows, btw!!!)...they have a weekly series! Are they exploiting their children too?
What about Little People Big World? Are they exploiting their children and taking advantage of "freebies" too?



I just don't get it. I mean, it's natural for the public to be curious about families that are outside of the "norm". So they have a TV show to satisfy that public curiosity.....so what? What does it matter? How is that exploitation?
I dunno, it just seems like a lot of people are attacking the Duggars just b/c they are the Duggars.
__________________
Jamie, mommy to: Jillian 7/19/05 (c-section), Addison 6/4/07 (VBAC),
& Evan 10/16/10 (VBAC)





Reply With Quote
  #2  
May 13th, 2008, 08:40 PM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39,051
I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that!
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #3  
May 14th, 2008, 05:08 AM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Offutt AFB, NE
Posts: 19,799
but it's not just the Duggars. In fact the Duggars have only done a handful of shows compared to some who have weekly shows.
__________________
~Beth~ Wife to my Airman Chris, and mommy to: Anthony Nathaniel (8/31/04), Anastasia Fae (8/01/06), Baby C (lost on 10/12/07), David Cillian (7/31/08), Charles George (4/29/10), and Alan Christopher (2/22/12)





My BLOG - A Day In The Life of a Freg (it's a little bit of everything!)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
May 14th, 2008, 05:43 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North
Posts: 7,824
Quote:
I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that![/b]
I agree...one show or a segment thats informative about a medical mystery/breakthrough/rarity but to do a series where you put you have cameras in your home on regular basis, is not something I would do. I don't think it can be all that healthy for the children.
__________________
Tammy, Mom to
Abby (19), Kacie (13), Chase (11), & Jacob (7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"...They're supposed to make you miserable! That's why they're family!" ~ Bobby ~ Supernatural
Reply With Quote
  #5  
May 14th, 2008, 06:09 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that![/b]
Well, I'm DYING to know, did you give your little boy a choice about whether or not you posted his picture, name and other personal information about him on the Internet? It repeatedly pops up every time you post. It seems to me that if putting your kids on TV is disrespecting them, the same would be true for putting their image and info on the web when they're too little to consent. And at least the Duggars are receiving compensation for putting themselves out in the public eye.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #6  
May 14th, 2008, 07:32 AM
Just Nana's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: keenesburg colo
Posts: 15,461
Quote:
Quote:
I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that![/b]
Well, I'm DYING to know, did you give your little boy a choice about whether or not you posted his picture, name and other personal information about him on the Internet? It repeatedly pops up every time you post. It seems to me that if putting your kids on TV is disrespecting them, the same would be true for putting their image and info on the web when they're too little to consent. And at least the Duggars are receiving compensation for putting themselves out in the public eye.
[/b]
And we all know that the almighty dollar overrules common sense. It is not something that I would do. It really doesnt matter if I agree or not. But if your gonna put your family out for all the world to see be prepared to take the heat from people who do not agree with your choices. You made that choice your children did not posting a pic here is in my opinion completely different that putting your child on national TV with a camera and microphone being poked into your face. But that is the joys of living here we can all make our own choices good bad or indifferent I dont have to agree with what you do and you dont have to agree with what I do.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #7  
May 14th, 2008, 08:08 AM
Spud'sMom
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'm not earning any royalties every time my "siggy" of my son pops up.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
May 14th, 2008, 08:28 AM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 9,778
Quote:
I've seen a lot of people saying that by having the cameras around and having all these specials about their lives, the Duggars are exploiting their children and taking advantage of the "freebies" and publicity, etc., and like it's a bad thing or something. "Sure, must be easy to raise 18 kids when you have all this freebies and money coming in".......

So....is it JUST not okay for the Duggars or for ALL families that choose to participate in these TV programs?? What about Jon & Kate Plus 8 (one of my fav shows, btw!!!)...they have a weekly series! Are they exploiting their children too?
What about Little People Big World? Are they exploiting their children and taking advantage of "freebies" too?



I just don't get it. I mean, it's natural for the public to be curious about families that are outside of the "norm". So they have a TV show to satisfy that public curiosity.....so what? What does it matter? How is that exploitation?
I dunno, it just seems like a lot of people are attacking the Duggars just b/c they are the Duggars.[/b]
I think that a lot of people are just not ok because it is the Duggars. You don't hear anyone complaining about Jon and Kate plus 8 or the fact that she seems to be controlling and a bit on the b****y side toward her husband.
It seems like people can't believe (or don't want to believe) that it is possible to actually do things without debt so they start saying things about the "freebies."
__________________
]
Reply With Quote
  #9  
May 14th, 2008, 09:13 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39,051
Quote:
but it's not just the Duggars. In fact the Duggars have only done a handful of shows compared to some who have weekly shows.[/b]
Did you see anyone above your post say it was just the Duggars? Jamie said the Duggars or ALL families who are on TV like that. I was the only other one who responded before you and I didn't even mention the Duggars at all.

Quote:
Quote:
I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that![/b]
Well, I'm DYING to know, did you give your little boy a choice about whether or not you posted his picture, name and other personal information about him on the Internet? It repeatedly pops up every time you post. It seems to me that if putting your kids on TV is disrespecting them, the same would be true for putting their image and info on the web when they're too little to consent. And at least the Duggars are receiving compensation for putting themselves out in the public eye.
[/b]

I'm not putting him on here to make money. I don't get paycheck for allowing people to view him. To me having his picture on here would be no different that a working parent putting a picture of their child on their desk. I like to look at my handsome little guy while I'm on here. The Duggars aren't putting their children on TV because they want to see their kids while they watch TV. They don't even watch TV. They are collecting large paychecks not to mention the free stuff that pours in for advertisement.
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #10  
May 14th, 2008, 10:04 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,667
Quote:
Quote:
but it's not just the Duggars. In fact the Duggars have only done a handful of shows compared to some who have weekly shows.[/b]
Did you see anyone above your post say it was just the Duggars? Jamie said the Duggars or ALL families who are on TV like that. I was the only other one who responded before you and I didn't even mention the Duggars at all.

Quote:
<div class='quotemain'>I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that![/b]
Well, I'm DYING to know, did you give your little boy a choice about whether or not you posted his picture, name and other personal information about him on the Internet? It repeatedly pops up every time you post. It seems to me that if putting your kids on TV is disrespecting them, the same would be true for putting their image and info on the web when they're too little to consent. And at least the Duggars are receiving compensation for putting themselves out in the public eye.
[/b]

I'm not putting him on here to make money. I don't get paycheck for allowing people to view him. To me having his picture on here would be no different that a working parent putting a picture of their child on their desk. I like to look at my handsome little guy while I'm on here. The Duggars aren't putting their children on TV because they want to see their kids while they watch TV. They don't even watch TV. They are collecting large paychecks not to mention the free stuff that pours in for advertisement.
[/b][/quote]
But the Internet is not just like a desk in an office. It's more like a TV screen that anyone anywhere can access. I'm just wondering how someone can find it hypocrital to participate in a television show when they post their own kids pictures on the web.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #11  
May 14th, 2008, 10:16 AM
Tammyjh's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North
Posts: 7,824
I see the pictures in the siggies as somewhat different. Its not the same as having a full time camera crew in the house and videoing every move everyone makes.
__________________
Tammy, Mom to
Abby (19), Kacie (13), Chase (11), & Jacob (7)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"...They're supposed to make you miserable! That's why they're family!" ~ Bobby ~ Supernatural
Reply With Quote
  #12  
May 14th, 2008, 10:20 AM
Just Nana's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: keenesburg colo
Posts: 15,461
For the exploitation in biological relationships, see Cheating (biology). For exploitation of natural resources, see Exploitation of natural resources. For exploitation movies, see Exploitation film.
The term "exploitation" may carry two distinct meanings:

The act of utilizing something for any purpose. In this case, exploit is a synonym for use.
The act of utilizing something in an unjust or cruel manner. It is this meaning of exploitation which is discussed below.
In political economy, economics, and sociology, exploitation involves a persistent social relationship in which certain persons are being mistreated or unfairly used for the benefit of others. This corresponds to one ethical conception of exploitation, that is, the treatment of human beings as mere means to an end — or as mere "objects". In different terms, "exploitation" refers to the use of people as a resource, with little or no consideration of their well-being. This can take the following basic forms:

taking something off a person or group that rightfully belongs to them
short-changing people in trade
directly or indirectly forcing somebody to work
using somebody against his will, or without his consent or knowledge
imposing an arbitrary differential treatment of people to the advantage of some and the disadvantage of others (as in ascriptive discrimination)
Most often, the word exploitation is used to refer to economic exploitation; that is, the act of using another person's labor without offering them an adequate compensation. There are two major perspectives on economic exploitation:

According to this we are all guilty of exploitation we use our computers, we use our cars, we use our homes etc. I guess it just boils down to how we feel or see the act of that exploitation.
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #13  
May 14th, 2008, 10:24 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39,051
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
but it's not just the Duggars. In fact the Duggars have only done a handful of shows compared to some who have weekly shows.[/b]
Did you see anyone above your post say it was just the Duggars? Jamie said the Duggars or ALL families who are on TV like that. I was the only other one who responded before you and I didn't even mention the Duggars at all.

Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Benjibugsmama @ May 13 2008, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>I think it's one thing to do a Health channel special type show about medical anomalies but it's a whole different thing when you are repeatedly inviting cameras into your home and allowing everyone to view your children in order to earn a paycheck. Those kids don't have a choice. Mom and Dad make the decisions.

I can tell you that I sure wouldn't have wanted to have a TV camera following me around when I was a teenager....capturing all of my awkward moments and all of that![/b]
Well, I'm DYING to know, did you give your little boy a choice about whether or not you posted his picture, name and other personal information about him on the Internet? It repeatedly pops up every time you post. It seems to me that if putting your kids on TV is disrespecting them, the same would be true for putting their image and info on the web when they're too little to consent. And at least the Duggars are receiving compensation for putting themselves out in the public eye.
[/b]

I'm not putting him on here to make money. I don't get paycheck for allowing people to view him. To me having his picture on here would be no different that a working parent putting a picture of their child on their desk. I like to look at my handsome little guy while I'm on here. The Duggars aren't putting their children on TV because they want to see their kids while they watch TV. They don't even watch TV. They are collecting large paychecks not to mention the free stuff that pours in for advertisement.
[/b][/quote]
But the Internet is not just like a desk in an office. It's more like a TV screen that anyone anywhere can access. I'm just wondering how someone can find it hypocrital to participate in a television show when they post their own kids pictures on the web.
[/b][/quote]

I'll say it again....I'm not making money from my son's picture being on here. I gain nothing from it other than the enjoyment of looking at him.

Definition of exploitation:
ex·ploi·ta·tion

1. use or utilization, esp. for profit: the exploitation of newly discovered oil fields.


__________________





Reply With Quote
  #14  
May 14th, 2008, 12:14 PM
SugarNSpice's Avatar VBAC Mommy!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 6,463
I think the main difference between allowing your family on a television show and posting pictures online is that WE (the parents) control what pictures of our children we do or do not put online. But when there are camera crews in your house filming you, you do not know what parts they will show and what parts they want. Lots of editing goes into these programs and they can portray the family to look any way they want to. They can show the good parts only, or just the parts that some people might find odd, strange (or whatever will draw the most ratings, most likely).....
But the truth is, all we know of these families is what we see on TV, which could be a bit different from their reality because of editing, etc. I don't think that any of us have a right to judge the Duggars or any of the other families we see on TV unless we know them personally or spend a day in their house and see it firsthand. And even then, unless their actions are harmful or affecting us in any way....we still don't have a right to sit here and say what they should or shouldn't do. KWIM?
__________________
Jamie, mommy to: Jillian 7/19/05 (c-section), Addison 6/4/07 (VBAC),
& Evan 10/16/10 (VBAC)





Reply With Quote
  #15  
May 14th, 2008, 12:20 PM
SugarNSpice's Avatar VBAC Mommy!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: TN
Posts: 6,463
I also wanted to add that I do not think the Duggars or the Gosselins or any of the other on-TV families are exploiting their children. I just don't see it that way. And yeah they might get "freebies" for doing the show, but I find it hard to believe that the freebies are their main motivation for doing the show. I doubt the contract they signed to do the show made any mention of getting freebies.
And how is it different from...let's say entering your child in a baby photo contest, winning, and getting a free vacation or money or whatever else as your prize? Is that exploitation too?
Heck, who DOESN'T like freebies, ya know? But I just don't believe that that is WHY they are doing these shows.
And think about all they have to give up in order to do these shows........they give up their privacy, they virtually let the entire world into their house, they risk facing all kinds of criticism and negative feedback....all for the sake of satisfying the public's curiosity about their family. IMO, they are entitled to a little compensation for that.
Actors are on television too...even child actors...and they get paid and get freebies too. What's the difference?
__________________
Jamie, mommy to: Jillian 7/19/05 (c-section), Addison 6/4/07 (VBAC),
& Evan 10/16/10 (VBAC)





Reply With Quote
  #16  
May 14th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,667
Please note I never said anything about "exploitation" in my comments--I only asked if everyone who posted their childrens images, names and DOBs on the internet obtained their children's permission before doing so. It may be "totally different" in most people's way of thinking, but my point was it is a DECISION about the child made by the parents. Who is anyone else to judge that?
__________________




Reply With Quote
  #17  
May 14th, 2008, 05:20 PM
Brenda04's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,987
Quote:
I've seen a lot of people saying that by having the cameras around and having all these specials about their lives, the Duggars are exploiting their children and taking advantage of the "freebies" and publicity, etc., and like it's a bad thing or something. "Sure, must be easy to raise 18 kids when you have all this freebies and money coming in".......

So....is it JUST not okay for the Duggars or for ALL families that choose to participate in these TV programs?? What about Jon & Kate Plus 8 (one of my fav shows, btw!!!)...they have a weekly series! Are they exploiting their children too?
What about Little People Big World? Are they exploiting their children and taking advantage of "freebies" too?



I just don't get it. I mean, it's natural for the public to be curious about families that are outside of the "norm". So they have a TV show to satisfy that public curiosity.....so what? What does it matter? How is that exploitation?
I dunno, it just seems like a lot of people are attacking the Duggars just b/c they are the Duggars.[/b]

I don't think it's ok to expose your family is such way, I agree with the people that said it was fine to do a special for medical purposes one time, but to make a show out of your kids everyday life is wrong in my opinion.
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #18  
May 14th, 2008, 05:52 PM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39,051
Quote:
I think the main difference between allowing your family on a television show and posting pictures online is that WE (the parents) control what pictures of our children we do or do not put online. But when there are camera crews in your house filming you, you do not know what parts they will show and what parts they want. Lots of editing goes into these programs and they can portray the family to look any way they want to. They can show the good parts only, or just the parts that some people might find odd, strange (or whatever will draw the most ratings, most likely).....
But the truth is, all we know of these families is what we see on TV, which could be a bit different from their reality because of editing, etc. I don't think that any of us have a right to judge the Duggars or any of the other families we see on TV unless we know them personally or spend a day in their house and see it firsthand. And even then, unless their actions are harmful or affecting us in any way....we still don't have a right to sit here and say what they should or shouldn't do. KWIM?[/b]
If they don't want to be judged they shouldn't parade their family around in the media. I think if they put their story in a public media outlet anyone who wants to has every right to judge what they see.
__________________





Reply With Quote
  #19  
May 14th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Brenda04's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,987
Quote:
Quote:
I think the main difference between allowing your family on a television show and posting pictures online is that WE (the parents) control what pictures of our children we do or do not put online. But when there are camera crews in your house filming you, you do not know what parts they will show and what parts they want. Lots of editing goes into these programs and they can portray the family to look any way they want to. They can show the good parts only, or just the parts that some people might find odd, strange (or whatever will draw the most ratings, most likely).....
But the truth is, all we know of these families is what we see on TV, which could be a bit different from their reality because of editing, etc. I don't think that any of us have a right to judge the Duggars or any of the other families we see on TV unless we know them personally or spend a day in their house and see it firsthand. And even then, unless their actions are harmful or affecting us in any way....we still don't have a right to sit here and say what they should or shouldn't do. KWIM?[/b]
If they don't want to be judged they shouldn't parade their family around in the media. I think if they put their story in a public media outlet anyone who wants to has every right to judge what they see.
[/b]
__________________



Reply With Quote
  #20  
May 14th, 2008, 08:42 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
Quote:
I think the main difference between allowing your family on a television show and posting pictures online is that WE (the parents) control what pictures of our children we do or do not put online. But when there are camera crews in your house filming you, you do not know what parts they will show and what parts they want. Lots of editing goes into these programs and they can portray the family to look any way they want to. They can show the good parts only, or just the parts that some people might find odd, strange (or whatever will draw the most ratings, most likely).....
But the truth is, all we know of these families is what we see on TV, which could be a bit different from their reality because of editing, etc. I don't think that any of us have a right to judge the Duggars or any of the other families we see on TV unless we know them personally or spend a day in their house and see it firsthand. And even then, unless their actions are harmful or affecting us in any way....we still don't have a right to sit here and say what they should or shouldn't do. KWIM?[/b]
If they don't want to be judged they shouldn't parade their family around in the media. I think if they put their story in a public media outlet anyone who wants to has every right to judge what they see.
[/b]
I get what you are trying to say but that can't be entirely true. Perhaps they should *expect* a certain amount of judgment because we all know it is human nature...but I think that to say they almost deserve it for being so public is a bit much I guess. To me it REALLY depends on motivation & none of us can truly know the motivations of why they made these decisions. For instance, if I were asked to make a series on recurrent pg loss & have cameras follow me through that journey I *may* have actually considered it. I would know it would make it harder on me in the meantime, but because I know firsthand how hard it is to go through & because I know how alone I felt I may be willing to do it believing it may help raise public awareness & understanding. That doesn't mean I should deserve everyone to make a bunch of judgments about me as I go through it (even though I know many would) - to me it is on those passing the judgments that haven't walked in those shoes...and it shou8ldn't be seen as something "those people have coming". It may not seem like it makes much difference - but I guess it does to me. (sorry for the tangent )
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




Reply With Quote
Reply

Topic Tools Search this Topic
Search this Topic:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:52 AM.