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  #1  
June 4th, 2008, 08:08 PM
LaLaRose3's Avatar My brand of heroin.
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What do you think about this?

Is it "going too far"? Or is it just educational for the child?

At what age is this appropriate or safe, if ever?
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  #2  
June 4th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Just Nana's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Humm I cant get the link to open I will try later
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  #3  
June 4th, 2008, 09:35 PM
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It won't open for me either.
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  #4  
June 4th, 2008, 09:44 PM
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That movie hurt my head a little.
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  #5  
June 4th, 2008, 09:45 PM
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IMO too young, although I think it will vary from child to child, this child looks around the age of 3, 4 would be pushing it, and that IMO is TOO young.

I will admit - my son shot a gun for the first time around the age of 5 or 6? Maybe 7 at the oldest. And I remember being taught at a young age to shoot a gun.

However, before we were ever allowed to touch a gun, in fact from BIRTH lol - we were taught gun safety. There were always guns in our house (I was raised by my grandparents mostly), and my son spent a lto of time at my grnadparents. I dont necessarily agree with that though - but nonetheless, we never had toy guns, guns were always real, and we were always taught the real danger. And perhaps its b/c we grew up with a hunting family that we knew guns = killing. Never fun.

BUT - even though youre being taught that at 3 & 4, I think developmentally at 3 or 4 youre not old enough to understand death, nor are you old enough to practice gun safety. Heck, theyre barely old enough to understand basic cause and effect. They cant even practice BICYCLE safety.

I just dont see the NEED for it either. When my grandfather first helped my son shoot a gun (and with me) it was to kill an animal that was getting into the chicken pen & killing all our animals. We were ALWAYS taught that we only kill animals for A) self defense (or defending another animal) B) food - never shoot a gun - animal or not - for fun.

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  #6  
June 4th, 2008, 09:53 PM
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I can't see the video so I can't speak to that, but I'm guessing it's about a dad showing a little kid how to use a gun?

Perhaps I'll have a slightly different take because I'm Canadian, and most people don't carry or own guns here, but I do not think kids - of any age - need to be taught to shoot a gun. The only exception that I can think of is possibly kids living on farms that need to use the gun for work related to the farm.

I don't allow, or won't allow in the future, toys that are gun or violence related in our home. I don't see the need for it at all, and I think it simply normalizes guns and violence to see and "play" with such toys or games ...

But then, I don't even like clothes with "camo" colouring. I don't understand why dressing a child up like soldier is fashionable. Being a soldier is a hard often thankless job that may require you to sacrifice your life... it just seems odd to me to see little boys dressed up from head to toe in "army" clothes. (Which reminds me, I have two pairs of camo pants hanging in the back of DS's closet from my MIL! )
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  #7  
June 4th, 2008, 10:41 PM
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I am sorry the video won't open for you all! It is essentially a man hunched over his maybe three year old child using the child's finger to pull the trigger. The child is wearing ear guards, but no eye coverings. The mother is videotaping it.

IMO, it is way too young.
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  #8  
June 5th, 2008, 12:18 AM
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That kid is too young IMO.

My take on guns:

I PLAN to start all my kids about the age of 5 in gun safety and maybe even shooting a gun if I think that individual child can handle it. I grew up around guns. I knew exactly what they did and knew better to touch any gun without my parents around, not that I ever seen on just laying there, but I knew better. I have been shooting guns since I was little and I will continue that with my kids. DH is a corrections officer and he has a gun, he is trained in them. Soon he will become a police officer and carry one with him 24/7. Kids need to be educated. Letting them shoot a gun with supervision is satisfying their curiousity. I keep a nice shot gun in my closet for my protection and I have no qualms about pumping someone full of double ought buck shot that comes into my home to hurt me or my child(ren). I will be prepared for them. Its kept up in a wall safe, but the safe is usually open because it is so far up and in my closet. I have one gun loaded at all times. We bought this wall safe specifically so kids cannot reach it and put it in the closet for extra protection. DD is only 2, so when she gets older, we might have to lock it, but right now, it stays unlocked. What would be the point of having it for protection if I can't readily get to it. I have had 2 people try to come in my home for 2 different reasons. All they need to hear is the slide of that barrel and look down that barrel to think twice about coming in my home. I have had to point it at someone and I was in the right. There is no way I would never live without a gun.

After I have this baby I plan to get a concelled weapons permit so I can have a handgun on me or near me at all times. I planned to do it when I turned 21, but I have been preggo since I was 21~!


ETA I put in the wrong word, had to fix it.
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  #9  
June 5th, 2008, 02:57 AM
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The little one in the video looks to be the same age as my almost 3 yr old and thats too young imo. I'm not against teaching children about guns and gun safety but I think the introduction to guns shouldn't come in the toddler years. Teaching them about safety can come as early as possible but involving the actual gun...probably not until after about 6 or 7. I am not a gun person...thats why I have a dog

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  #10  
June 5th, 2008, 08:23 AM
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I am not a gun person...thats why I have a dog [/b]
That's how I feel.

However, my dh is a hunter I finally got him to take the guns to his dad's house to keep because I didn't want the chance of one of the boys messing with it now that they're older and more curious about that kind of stuff. He wanted a hand gun "for protection", and I flat out refused. We are in agreement, however, that there are no toy guns in our house, aside from super soaker squirt guns (and that's only because they don't look like a real gun at all - they look like a toy), and the boys aren't even allowed to pretend shoot with their fingers.

When they're older (maybe 9 or 10), my dh will take them to learn about guns, and shoot a gun. I just feel if the mystery and taboo of guns is taken away, they won't be as likely to play around with them, or if they do they will at least no basic gun safety. I didn't have this growing up, but guns have always scared the crap out of me, so I wouldn't even have been in a house if someone was messing with one. I think it's different for boys though. They seem to be genetically programmed to be interested in them. Whatever my FIL did with my dh, it worked because he has a HUGE respect for guns, and I hope that he can instill that in the boys as well.
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  #11  
June 5th, 2008, 08:42 AM
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As long as they know gun safety before gun use, I don't have a problem with it all. My husband will be taking my three year old hunting in the winter. He knows the 6 rules of gun safety and can repeat them when asked. As long as the child treats the gun with respect and not as if it is a toy, then I think it's acceptable.
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  #12  
June 5th, 2008, 08:58 AM
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Im definitely not a gun person, but DH is military, so he is. The video isnt working for me, but I cant think of a reason why a toddler would need to know how to shoot a gun! Im not for a kid under the age of 15 or so (depending on maturity and aggression level!) shooting guns, but I could probably be swayed if I were given a reason why they would NEED to!
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  #13  
June 5th, 2008, 09:41 AM
Xx5Xy1+'s Avatar What's your superpower?
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That little one looks a bit too young for that.

Dh and I do have weapons (we have three handguns and two shotguns and DH has a compound bow). My 13 year old already knows that we know exactly where it is, exactly what position it is in (we do not keep the clip with the weapon and the kids never know where we have put the clip, we keep an empty mag in the weapon) and we know she knows where we keep it. We have made it completely and plainly clear that if is ever even looked at (let alone moved) it, the police had better already be there by the time we get home telling us that you thwarted a break in, otherwise she would never see the light of day again (we were living just outside DC at the time, fairly low crime area, but still... it was DC and we lived on a dead end street)

Granted this was before we left to transfer to Germany. At that time Morganne wasn't old enough for the NRA's weapons safety course. Once we return to the states (we don't have any of our weapons here, they're at my in-laws, locked in a safe) Morganne will most definatly be signed up for a weapons safety course and we'll be taking her to a firing range so she knows what a weapon is capable of doing. As the babies get older, we will be doing the same with them. My children will learn what it means to be a responisble gun owner and opperator.
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  #14  
June 5th, 2008, 10:26 AM
SweetSimpleThings's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
That kid is too young IMO.

My take on guns:

I PLAN to start all my kids about the age of 5 in gun safety and maybe even shooting a gun if I think that individual child can handle it. I grew up around guns. I knew exactly what they did and knew better to touch any gun without my parents around, not that I ever seen on just laying there, but I knew better. I have been shooting guns since I was little and I will continue that with my kids. DH is a corrections officer and he has a gun, he is trained in them. Soon he will become a police officer and carry one with him 24/7. Kids need to be educated. Letting them shoot a gun with supervision is satisfying their curiousity. I keep a nice shot gun in my closet for my protection and I have no qualms about pumping someone full of double ought buck shot that comes into my home to hurt me or my child(ren). I will be prepared for them. Its kept up in a wall safe, but the safe is usually open because it is so far up and in my closet. I have one gun loaded at all times. We bought this wall safe specifically so kids cannot reach it and put it in the closet for extra protection. DD is only 2, so when she gets older, we might have to lock it, but right now, it stays unlocked. What would be the point of having it for protection if I can't readily get to it. I have had 2 people try to come in my home for 2 different reasons. All they need to hear is the slide of that barrel and look down that barrel to think twice about coming in my home. I have had to point it at someone and I was in the right. There is no way I would never live without a gun.

After I have this baby I plan to get a concelled weapons permit so I can have a handgun on me or near me at all times. I planned to do it when I turned 21, but I have been preggo since I was 21~!


ETA I put in the wrong word, had to fix it.[/b]
I guess I kind of understand what you're getting at, but ... guns are dangerous ... would you let your kid play with other dangerous things simply to satisfy their curiousity?? If the arguement is that guns are useful (which is another argument, but one I probably don't want to get into right now ) then the same could be said about, oh, a big container of bleach. "We need bleach for xyz purpose, and we should teach people how to handle it safely, so I'm going to let my kid explore the big bottle of bleach as long as I'm supervising." I just don't see that "satisfying curiousity" is a great reason here ... kids are curious about a lot of things that they should have NO contact with.

Quote:
That little one looks a bit too young for that.

Dh and I do have weapons (we have three handguns and two shotguns and DH has a compound bow). My 13 year old already knows that we know exactly where it is, exactly what position it is in (we do not keep the clip with the weapon and the kids never know where we have put the clip, we keep an empty mag in the weapon) and we know she knows where we keep it. We have made it completely and plainly clear that if is ever even looked at (let alone moved) it, the police had better already be there by the time we get home telling us that you thwarted a break in, otherwise she would never see the light of day again (we were living just outside DC at the time, fairly low crime area, but still... it was DC and we lived on a dead end street)

Granted this was before we left to transfer to Germany. At that time Morganne wasn't old enough for the NRA's weapons safety course. Once we return to the states (we don't have any of our weapons here, they're at my in-laws, locked in a safe) Morganne will most definatly be signed up for a weapons safety course and we'll be taking her to a firing range so she knows what a weapon is capable of doing. As the babies get older, we will be doing the same with them. My children will learn what it means to be a responisble gun owner and opperator.[/b]
Again, I guess I understand what you're getting at here, but why does a child need to know "what a weapon is capable of"? I don't need to expose DS to a room full of alligators for him to learn what they're capable of, or that they're dangerous.

I have to say, I'm actually really surprised at how many of you have guns in your homes and have allowed kids to see and learn about them. Again, maybe it's that I'm Canadian, but I honestly don't know anyone that owns a gun, except my friend's DH who is a police officer. And I hope it stays that way. Guns are not easy to get here, and I like it that way.
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  #15  
June 5th, 2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
I guess I kind of understand what you're getting at, but ... guns are dangerous ... would you let your kid play with other dangerous things simply to satisfy their curiousity?? If the arguement is that guns are useful (which is another argument, but one I probably don't want to get into right now ) then the same could be said about, oh, a big container of bleach. "We need bleach for xyz purpose, and we should teach people how to handle it safely, so I'm going to let my kid explore the big bottle of bleach as long as I'm supervising." I just don't see that "satisfying curiousity" is a great reason here ... kids are curious about a lot of things that they should have NO contact with.[/b]
There's a difference though between dangerous and common, and dangerous and "taboo". There's a different curiosity that comes when something is off limits, like guns, drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. Your kids SEE you using the bleach, so it's not such a mystery. They know it's used for clothes and cleaning, and once they're passed the age of 2 or 3 the fun of "playing" in it is gone.

It's not the same with guns (or the others I mentioned). Unless you're showing a child how to use a gun, the only other times they see it is on tv, or hear about it on the news. Other than that, they don't know much about them except they're dangerous and off limits. That's why it's so common for kids to sneak and check guns out (and then get accidentally shot from it). I'd rather take away the curiosity of guns by letting them learn about them, and have respect for them.

Three is still too young for me though

Quote:
Again, I guess I understand what you're getting at here, but why does a child need to know "what a weapon is capable of"? I don't need to expose DS to a room full of alligators for him to learn what they're capable of, or that they're dangerous.[/b]
How many houses do you think he'll go to when he's older who have alligators in their closets? If it were common, you'd want him to know how to handle one, and what to do if his friend opened up the closet, and pulled the alligator out to play with it.
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  #16  
June 5th, 2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
I guess I kind of understand what you're getting at, but ... guns are dangerous ... would you let your kid play with other dangerous things simply to satisfy their curiousity?? If the arguement is that guns are useful (which is another argument, but one I probably don't want to get into right now ) then the same could be said about, oh, a big container of bleach. "We need bleach for xyz purpose, and we should teach people how to handle it safely, so I'm going to let my kid explore the big bottle of bleach as long as I'm supervising." I just don't see that "satisfying curiousity" is a great reason here ... kids are curious about a lot of things that they should have NO contact with.[/b]
There's a difference though between dangerous and common, and dangerous and "taboo". There's a different curiosity that comes when something is off limits, like guns, drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. Your kids SEE you using the bleach, so it's not such a mystery. They know it's used for clothes and cleaning, and once they're passed the age of 2 or 3 the fun of "playing" in it is gone.

It's not the same with guns (or the others I mentioned). Unless you're showing a child how to use a gun, the only other times they see it is on tv, or hear about it on the news. Other than that, they don't know much about them except they're dangerous and off limits. That's why it's so common for kids to sneak and check guns out (and then get accidentally shot from it). I'd rather take away the curiosity of guns by letting them learn about them, and have respect for them.

Three is still too young for me though

Quote:
Again, I guess I understand what you're getting at here, but why does a child need to know "what a weapon is capable of"? I don't need to expose DS to a room full of alligators for him to learn what they're capable of, or that they're dangerous.[/b]
How many houses do you think he'll go to when he's older who have alligators in their closets? If it were common, you'd want him to know how to handle one, and what to do if his friend opened up the closet, and pulled the alligator out to play with it.
[/b]
Good points ... I honestly appreciate the logic here. But I'll make a reply anyway

To the first bolded: that's very, very true ... but if the gun isn't there in the first place, you won't have a kid sneak in and take it out and accidentally get shot. I just don't plan on eve having a gun in our house. And of all the other dangerous, taboo things you listed (except possibly drugs) only the gun can blow your head off.

To the second bolded: if I lived in the US, I would probably completely agree with you. But, as I said, I know NO ONE (aside from a police officer) who has a gun in his house. (Oh wait, that's not true, my dad has some old antique gun up in the crawl space over the garage, which is empty and half taken apart.) The likelihood of my kid being at someone else's house and coming across a gun is actually about as likely as him coming across an alligator (hey, illegal trade in exotic animals is big business here )
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  #17  
June 5th, 2008, 12:00 PM
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I guess my take is a bit different. I was very anti-gun everything before I married my husband. Chris is from SC and grew up in a huge hunting family. From an early age he was taught to hunt, and the safety and respect of guns. I think it's much better to teach a child to use a gun safely and teach a child to respect a gun as early as you feel that PARTICULAR child is ready, rather than shelter them from them completely.
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  #18  
June 5th, 2008, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
To the first bolded: that's very, very true ... but if the gun isn't there in the first place, you won't have a kid sneak in and take it out and accidentally get shot. I just don't plan on eve having a gun in our house. And of all the other dangerous, taboo things you listed (except possibly drugs) only the gun can blow your head off.

To the second bolded: if I lived in the US, I would probably completely agree with you. But, as I said, I know NO ONE (aside from a police officer) who has a gun in his house. (Oh wait, that's not true, my dad has some old antique gun up in the crawl space over the garage, which is empty and half taken apart.) The likelihood of my kid being at someone else's house and coming across a gun is actually about as likely as him coming across an alligator (hey, illegal trade in exotic animals is big business here )[/b]
We don't have guns in our house either. Even though dh likes to hunt, I made him take his rifles to his dad's house. I'm from Ohio though, and we recently passed a "concealed carry" law where average joe's are allowed to carry guns with a permit, so it's pretty common for people to have them.
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  #19  
June 5th, 2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
I guess my take is a bit different. I was very anti-gun everything before I married my husband. Chris is from SC and grew up in a huge hunting family. From an early age he was taught to hunt, and the safety and respect of guns. I think it's much better to teach a child to use a gun safely and teach a child to respect a gun as early as you feel that PARTICULAR child is ready, rather than shelter them from them completely.[/b]
My thoughts exactly.

In the video, the father has full possession and control of the gun, the entire time, as he assists the child with the trigger. The child is wearing protective gear over his ears, although I would prefer he were also wearing safety glasses. He is being closely supervised and completely assisted the entire time and I don't see the gun being used in a reckless manner that demonstrates a disregard to anyone's, including the child's, safety.

Children are going to see guns on television, in movies and will be exposed to them while playing, either as toys or imaginary play. It is VERY important, IMO, that a child is taught from an early age about guns and gun safety and that applies whether your family owns guns or not. Since it is estimated that over half of Americans have guns in their homes, the likelihood of your child being in the home of a gun owner at some point in their young lives, is very high. I would much rather my child be educated on guns, both in function and safety, if they were to ever encounter an unsecured gun outside of adult supervision.
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  #20  
June 5th, 2008, 01:12 PM
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I appreciate all of you adding in your thoughts. It is interesting to hear the differences of thought and opinion on guns.

My first thought is, however... Yes, he is being taught how to properly use a gun. But, does that make it more likely that he would knowingly shoot someone/something? I am not saying this is my thought process at all, just curious.

Also, is anyone else kind of shocked that this man in the video is a nominee for the "Worst Father Award"?
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