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  #1  
June 9th, 2008, 10:46 AM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Ok, here's a not-so-hypothetical situation.

A woman gets pregnant, she has two kids from a previous relationship and brand-new DH has two kids as well. All 4 kids live with woman and her DH. She gets pregnant with an oops. Her DH has pretty crappy insurance so they opt for a home birth with a midwife because it is cheaper. Midwife is over an hour away from their home. Pregnancy progesses normally until the end. At nearly a week overdue, woman and DH drive over an hour to see midwife and MW tells her that her cervix is "on the side". Said it is no longer facing down, baby must have "pushed it over". (Just a pause to ask if that is even possible...) So MW tells woman since she is showing no signs of labor and nearly a week overdue she should take these special herbs to try to get things moving. Finally over the weekend MW tells woman she will induce her, at home, on Monday if nothing is happening.

Now.........to me.....and this is just my opinion.....this woman seems VERY selfish. I know that the body (most of the time) will do what its supposed to do and the baby will be born when it's ready. However, with the possible risks to the baby that going too far overdue can sometimes pose, wouldnt it seem logical to go to the hospital, or call an OB, or something? I guess because I had a hospital birth, and literally everyone I know has had one, I guess it just seems rational to call the dr. or go to the hospital when there seems to be a problem like being a week overdue with no progress at all and a possible complication of the cervix "moving to the side". (Again, is that possible or did she maybe word things wrong?).
I know hospital births can be expensive. We're STILL paying for DS' hospital birth 13 months later. BUT....I would think the wellbeing of your child would be more important. But then again, maybe she just really trusted the MW and had faith that everything would be ok. I dont know. What do you all think? Is it selfish to risk possible complications with an overdue baby rather than to just go to the hospital to be checked because you are worried about the bills?

And I can say that I honestly know this is why she did not go to the hospital because she has said so herself. She had her previous 2 children in the hospital, with drugs, and no complications. Both were early and very very quick births. She made the decision to stay home with a MW soley due to finances. Which is fine, I have nothing against homebirths WHATSOEVER. They aren't for me, but hospital births arent for everyone either. If you can do it, more power to ya! LOL.

So what does everyone think?

**I will post the outcome after I get a few responses**


Casey

edit for spelling.
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  #2  
June 9th, 2008, 11:02 AM
Tiffers's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I blame the midwife more I think. I don't think a *good* midwife would attempt to induce labor AT HOME. The midwife should have recognized she couldn't handle it, and had the woman tranfer care to an OB.
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  #3  
June 9th, 2008, 11:35 AM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Yeah, I wasnt sure how all of that worked. It didnt SOUND safe to induce at home...but then again I've never been to a MW so I wasnt sure if that was normal or not.

Casey
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  #4  
June 9th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Tofu Bacon
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First I must ask: when you say she was 1 week "overdue" , how many weeks along was she?
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  #5  
June 9th, 2008, 11:44 AM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
First I must ask: when you say she was 1 week "overdue" , how many weeks along was she?[/b]

Her due date was 40 weeks, so she was 41 weeks. The planned "home induction" was scheduled for 41 weeks and 2 days.


Casey
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  #6  
June 9th, 2008, 11:44 AM
_Brandy_'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Well, 1 week overdue is 43 weeks gestation to start with.

I would ask this, why is it irresponsible to have a care provider induce a labour? (I am not saying I think induction is good or bad as that isn't what this is about)

Do you think that because she was a midwife that she is not qualified?

I do not see a difference in Dr vs midwife, personally, in this regard. A midwife has education in NORMAL pregnancy, a Dr is more on the side of preventative and emergent situations.

I assume that the midwife has a degree, I assume this because in my country (Canada) this is the standard. So, a 4 year degree in pregnancy and birth equals a competant care provider.

I think it is wrong to assume that a midwife is ill-educated and ill-informed.

As for the cervix to the side, I am not familiar with that, but I do know that posterior cervixes are very common when mom is not yet ready to labour.


Now, will you fill us in on everything else?
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  #7  
June 9th, 2008, 11:45 AM
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I'm not a big believer in inductions unless they are past 42 weeks or for a medical emergency on the mother or baby's part. How does she plan to induce her at home anyway?

If it were me I'd go to the hospital but that might be because I had a hospital birth that I was fine with.
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  #8  
June 9th, 2008, 11:46 AM
_Brandy_'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Quote:
First I must ask: when you say she was 1 week "overdue" , how many weeks along was she?[/b]

Her due date was 40 weeks, so she was 41 weeks. The planned "home induction" was scheduled for 41 weeks and 2 days.


Casey
[/b]

This is silly, a "term" delivery is 37-42 weeks gestation.
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  #9  
June 9th, 2008, 11:53 AM
Tofu Bacon
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Quote:
Quote:
First I must ask: when you say she was 1 week "overdue" , how many weeks along was she?[/b]

Her due date was 40 weeks, so she was 41 weeks. The planned "home induction" was scheduled for 41 weeks and 2 days.


Casey
[/b]
1. She may have been past her due date but she was not "overdue". A baby isn't overdue until after 42 weeks.

2. Natural labor unduction methods don't work unless your body is actually ready to go into labor. Why does out culture accept pitocin and prostaglandins as perfectly "safe" and acceptable means of inducing labor (despite the many risks), but not herbs that won't work if your body isn't ready?

3. I don't think having a homebirth for financial reasons is selfish. Why turn her care over to an OB when by, all accounts, the pregnancy was progressing normally...and an OB would likely start pushing for an induction anyway?
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  #10  
June 9th, 2008, 12:26 PM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Ok, lots to answer.

First off, I never said a MW was not qualified or not as good as an OB. I did say that homebirth was not for me, but I had nothing against it for those who wanted it. I also never said she was "ill-educated and ill-informed".

Also, I think it's rude to call someone silly who thinks going a week past your due date is considered overdue. I am not a dr. nor a MW, therefore from what I know, if you are past your due date and still pregnant, you are overdue. Sorry I'm so stupid, just what I had always heard.

I also dont think a homebirth for financial reasons is selfish. I never said I did. I didnt have a single problem with her having a homebirth for whatever reason she wanted, its her business. I just wanted to put out there what her reason was so that you knew the reason why she wouldnt go to the hospital at the end of the pregnancy. And up until the end her pregnancy was normal and uneventful. I guess some might think the end of it was normal also. I felt the way she was being selfish was in not going to an OB or hospital when the MW told her that her cervix was over to the side, gave her herbs to take to try to get labor going, and was planning on inducing at home. None of that sat right with me. But like I said before, I am not familiar with homebirths and what is normal and what is not.


The end results.....
She went into labor on her own early this morning.(the day of the scheduled home-induction) She had a very hard time delivering the baby. She tried a waterbirth but the baby got stuck with her head hanging out for several minutes so the MW had to get her up onto a bed and try to pull the baby out. Her shoulders were stuck and after quite a bit of time she eventually was able to push enough that her shoulders popped out and the MW pulled her the rest of the way out. It was pretty traumatic for the woman and throughout it she begged for drugs, said she couldnt do it, and had a very hard time pushing her out. Not that giving birth is easy by any means at all, just that she seemed to have a more than normal hard time. Afterwards it took a long time for the placenta to come out but the MW eventually just pulled it out. Now the woman is bleeding very badly. MW says all is normal though, and baby seems fine. She was 10 pounds and some odd ounces. Besides a low temp, she seems fine and I'm not sure what the woman's plans are for taking the baby to the pediatrician for her first appt.
It was a good outcome to a kind of scary birth experience for her. I am still concerned about the amount of bleeding she is having but seems to trust her MW when she tells her everything is normal.


Casey
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  #11  
June 9th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Fluffy Baby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I agree with Cori and Brandy, but I am not getting into this debate because I lost a baby at 42 weeks. Some say I was selfish because I was waiting to go into labor and it was my fault. I do not think being 41 weeks is a reason for induction. I am stepping back, but even losing a baby does not make me want to induce earlier. MY body doesn't work will with baby at 42 weeks or beyond, but that is the exception not the norm.
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  #12  
June 9th, 2008, 12:29 PM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
I agree with Cori and Brandy, but I am not getting into this debate because I lost a baby at 42 weeks. Some say I was selfish because I was waiting to go into labor and it was my fault. I do not think being 41 weeks is a reason for induction. I am stepping back, but even losing a baby does not make me want to induce earlier. MY body doesn't work will with baby at 42 weeks or beyond, but that is the exception not the norm.[/b]

I am so sorry for your loss. I cant even begin to imagine the pain you must have felt and still feel today. My appologies if this thread offended you in any way.

Casey
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  #13  
June 9th, 2008, 12:37 PM
Fluffy Baby's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree with Cori and Brandy, but I am not getting into this debate because I lost a baby at 42 weeks. Some say I was selfish because I was waiting to go into labor and it was my fault. I do not think being 41 weeks is a reason for induction. I am stepping back, but even losing a baby does not make me want to induce earlier. MY body doesn't work will with baby at 42 weeks or beyond, but that is the exception not the norm.[/b]

I am so sorry for your loss. I cant even begin to imagine the pain you must have felt and still feel today. My appologies if this thread offended you in any way.

Casey
[/b]

It didn't offend me at all. But I know alot of people might have say somethings that might, so I just wanted to state my piece. :-)
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  #14  
June 9th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Tofu Bacon
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I'm guess I'm just surprised that you feel she was being selfish, when you admittedly aren't well-educated on the matter. So she had a long hard labor...that can happen no matter when, where or how, or with whom she gave birth.
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  #15  
June 9th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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^ exactly. I"m with Cori. I"m obviously pro homebirth but I'm pro baby more than anything else. I"m not seeing in this example how going to the hospital would have been MORE productive or safer for this mother or baby. Docs would have most likely added chemicals to her body that could have slowed or stalled labor

If the baby was 10 pounds, I'd put down money that woman would have been pushed into a c-section at the hospital
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  #16  
June 9th, 2008, 12:52 PM
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When answering this question the medical facts are not as important as the woman's perception of the medical facts. If she perceived that there was a risk and yet didn't seek what she perceived as more qualified care because of financial reasons, that is a bit selfish.

However, the issue obviously didn't preclude a healthy MW homebirth, but just made birth more difficult. That probably would have been the case had she ended up opting for an OB or not. Obviously your friend ended up making the right decision here anyhow.

I am a bit annoyed that we can't discuss homebirth even tangentally without people getting defensive and assuming that the OP was insulting midwives. Every midwife I know says that they are perfectly qualified to handle low risk, normal pregnancies. Which is of course 98% of pregnancies. However, when issues pop up and things get medically more complicated, most midwives have no problem turning that over to an OB. The OP wanted to know if the problems encountered were enough to warrant an OB, the answer is no. Simple enough.
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  #17  
June 9th, 2008, 01:03 PM
Tofu Bacon
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The OP also unfairly decided that this woman was selfish. Some of us here are of the mindset that avoiding unnecessary intervention (which in my book includes OBs), which is likely what the woman was trying to do, IS in the best interest of mother and baby.
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  #18  
June 9th, 2008, 01:07 PM
mommywannabe's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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[quote]When answering this question the medical facts are not as important as the woman's perception of the medical facts. If she perceived that there was a risk and yet didn't seek what she perceived as more qualified care because of financial reasons, that is a bit selfish.

However, the issue obviously didn't preclude a healthy MW homebirth, but just made birth more difficult. That probably would have been the case had she ended up opting for an OB or not. Obviously your friend ended up making the right decision here anyhow.

I am a bit annoyed that we can't discuss homebirth even tangentally without people getting defensive and assuming that the OP was insulting midwives. Every midwife I know says that they are perfectly qualified to handle low risk, normal pregnancies. Which is of course 98% of pregnancies. However, when issues pop up and things get medically more complicated, most midwives have no problem turning that over to an OB. The OP wanted to know if the problems encountered were enough to warrant an OB, the answer is no. Simple enough.[/quote]

Thank you. To the bolded, that's exactly what I was trying to get acrossed. Apparently since I even dared to mention homebirths or midwives I was insinuating that MW knew nothing and homebirths were some crazy hippie trend. Seriously, I just wanted to know if anyone thought she was being selfish but since I am not "well-educated on the matter" I guess I had no business asking such a ridiculous question. I didnt realize you had to have your masters in any subject you might have a question on. Thanks to those of you who pointed out just how stupid I am...I'll try and remember that for next time.




Casey
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  #19  
June 9th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Tiffers's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
When answering this question the medical facts are not as important as the woman's perception of the medical facts. If she perceived that there was a risk and yet didn't seek what she perceived as more qualified care because of financial reasons, that is a bit selfish.

However, the issue obviously didn't preclude a healthy MW homebirth, but just made birth more difficult. That probably would have been the case had she ended up opting for an OB or not. Obviously your friend ended up making the right decision here anyhow.

I am a bit annoyed that we can't discuss homebirth even tangentally without people getting defensive and assuming that the OP was insulting midwives. Every midwife I know says that they are perfectly qualified to handle low risk, normal pregnancies. Which is of course 98% of pregnancies. However, when issues pop up and things get medically more complicated, most midwives have no problem turning that over to an OB. The OP wanted to know if the problems encountered were enough to warrant an OB, the answer is no. Simple enough.[/b]
I'm in total agreement with Torrie on everything above. If the woman perceived there to be a risk, and yet didn't seek further help I find that selfish. I also get so annoyed with people who are pro homebirth being so anti-OB and pro-midwife. There's always going to be bad apples in the bunch no matter WHAT your title is, and just because someone is a midwife, it doesn't make them a GOOD midwife. Most are and know when to draw the line on what is a healthy homebirth, but there will also be a few who don't. It doesn't make it wrong to question which the person falls under.
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  #20  
June 9th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Tofu Bacon
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Thank you. To the bolded, that's exactly what I was trying to get acrossed. Apparently since I even dared to mention homebirths or midwives I was insinuating that MW knew nothing and homebirths were some crazy hippie trend. Seriously, I just wanted to know if anyone thought she was being selfish but since I am not "well-educated on the matter" I guess I had no business asking such a ridiculous question. I didnt realize you had to have your masters in any subject you might have a question on. Thanks to those of you who pointed out just how stupid I am...I'll try and remember that for next time.[/b]
Perhaps its the tone of your OP. Your question wasn't "ridiculous" but the way you called her selish was uncalled for, especially since you yourself said you don't know much about the matter. Had that part been left out, I promise you that your post would have been perceived much differently.
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