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Mandatory sterilization


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  #1  
June 16th, 2008, 10:14 AM
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Would you ever support sterilization for women who continually have kids and abuse/neglect them or aren't able to care for them?


I was just watching a news story about a missing 2 month old baby. The mother left the baby with someone she barely knew while she went out. The babysitter disappeared with the baby and has been missing for 2 days.

This is the mother's 7th child. The other 6 have already been taken away from her. This one was with her because the paternal grandmother was supervising her most of the time so the state gave her a chance. This woman's family says she's been diagnosed as "mentally retarded."


Should a person like this be allowed to continue having children only to either endanger them or have them taken away? Could/should mandatory sterilization ever be an option?
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  #2  
June 16th, 2008, 10:37 AM
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I would love to say that yes is should be, but I can't I don't trust the government with that kind of power. I have seen tons of women that should be sterilized but I don't think it is the governments job to make that kind of choice.
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  #3  
June 16th, 2008, 10:39 AM
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That's how I feel about it too. I mean there are a lot of people out there who shouldn't continue to have kids but I don't think I'd trust the government to make that decision.
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  #4  
June 16th, 2008, 11:09 AM
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Eugenics is generally agreed to be a Bad Thing. I would be curious to see if anyone could come up with a reasonable defensable argument in favor of it.
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  #5  
June 16th, 2008, 11:42 AM
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Nope, never. I would hate for anyone to ever have the right to tell someone they can't have babies. That is one dangerous slippery slope for us women.
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  #6  
June 16th, 2008, 11:48 AM
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Nope, never. I would hate for anyone to ever have the right to tell someone they can't have babies. That is one dangerous slippery slope for us women.[/b]
Somewhat sadly, I completely agree. Sadly because while I hate to hear of situations where the children suffer the consequences of mom's behaviour such as in the OP, we can't open the door to limiting anyone's reproductive rights.
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  #7  
June 16th, 2008, 12:11 PM
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Is there any type of reasonable solution to the problem of women continuing to have children only to have them taken away for one reason or another?

It breaks my heart to see women, like this woman in the news story. She's supposedly be diagnosed as "mentally retarded" according to her family. She's had 7 children so far. What can be done to help this woman?
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  #8  
June 16th, 2008, 08:25 PM
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Thats so sad for the children AND for this woman. If she's mentally retarted, there is a good chance that her maturity level is much lower than what it appears to the outside looking in

I am also one who would love to say "yes" but think its such a dangerous step to take so I have to say "no".

I don't know if her family has tried to talk her into voluntary sterilization or not but thats what I would be trying to do if she were my relative. Other than that, I don't know what they can do. She's legally an adult and has rights. Such a sad situation. Breaks my heart for all involved.
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  #9  
June 16th, 2008, 11:02 PM
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Is there any type of reasonable solution to the problem of women continuing to have children only to have them taken away for one reason or another?

It breaks my heart to see women, like this woman in the news story. She's supposedly be diagnosed as "mentally retarded" according to her family. She's had 7 children so far. What can be done to help this woman?[/b]
She should be institutionalized. She obviously can't function in the world and is putting others at risk with her behavior. She's a danger to society. Put her somewhere where she can get her basic needs cared for but out of society.

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  #10  
June 17th, 2008, 12:22 AM
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She's a lousy parent, but I don't see how that makes her a danger to society as a whole.

I agree with everyone that mandatory sterilization is just a really, REALLY bad idea.
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  #11  
June 17th, 2008, 09:44 AM
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To mandatory sterilize anyone for any reason is not something we should be doing
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  #12  
June 17th, 2008, 09:44 AM
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Thats so sad for the children AND for this woman. If she's mentally retarted, there is a good chance that her maturity level is much lower than what it appears to the outside looking in

I am also one who would love to say "yes" but think its such a dangerous step to take so I have to say "no".

I don't know if her family has tried to talk her into voluntary sterilization or not but thats what I would be trying to do if she were my relative. Other than that, I don't know what they can do. She's legally an adult and has rights. Such a sad situation. Breaks my heart for all involved. [/b]
The story had a happy ending last night. They found the woman who took the baby and they found the baby. The baby was fine and was taken to the hospital just to be checked out. The mom of course was sitting on her front stoop giving a TV interview instead of being at the hospital with her baby.
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  #13  
June 17th, 2008, 10:38 AM
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She's a lousy parent, but I don't see how that makes her a danger to society as a whole.

I agree with everyone that mandatory sterilization is just a really, REALLY bad idea.[/b]
She IS a danger to society. Her children are a part of society. If someone repeatedly beats and stalks and assaults a few specific individuals they are still a danger to society and get locked up. Likewise, she's clearly a danger to her children and her future children hence she needs to be put away somewhere.
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  #14  
June 17th, 2008, 01:18 PM
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In some cases I would have to say yes. But it has to be the most extreme cases such as abuse, neglect, habitual drug use, etc. Not just because the government feels they have a right to just come in and say it.
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  #15  
June 19th, 2008, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
She's a lousy parent, but I don't see how that makes her a danger to society as a whole.

I agree with everyone that mandatory sterilization is just a really, REALLY bad idea.[/b]
She IS a danger to society. Her children are a part of society. If someone repeatedly beats and stalks and assaults a few specific individuals they are still a danger to society and get locked up. Likewise, she's clearly a danger to her children and her future children hence she needs to be put away somewhere.
[/b]
So would you advocate locking up EVERY mentally retarded person then, because many can't function (to our standards) in society and "might" be a threat?

I agree that this woman SHOULD NOT be taking care of her (or any) kids and really needs to just stop having them, somehow, but to "lock her up" because of mental retardation is not right at all.

Quote:
In some cases I would have to say yes. But it has to be the most extreme cases such as abuse, neglect, habitual drug use, etc. Not just because the government feels they have a right to just come in and say it. [/b]
In cases like this I *almost* wish she could be forcibly sterilized, just like in cases you mentioned, but do you not see the slippery slope? I mean, who's then going to stop the government (or whoever enforces it) from saying that other mentally disabled people, who have never harmed their children before, should be sterilized? And then what about people who just don't score "high enough" on an IQ test? Or people who were abused as children, because statistics show they're more likely to abuse their children? Maybe parents who don't make enough money? All of those could be manipulated into cases of abuse or neglect.
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  #16  
June 19th, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
She's a lousy parent, but I don't see how that makes her a danger to society as a whole.

I agree with everyone that mandatory sterilization is just a really, REALLY bad idea.[/b]
She IS a danger to society. Her children are a part of society. If someone repeatedly beats and stalks and assaults a few specific individuals they are still a danger to society and get locked up. Likewise, she's clearly a danger to her children and her future children hence she needs to be put away somewhere.
[/b]
So would you advocate locking up EVERY mentally retarded person then, because many can't function (to our standards) in society and "might" be a threat?

I agree that this woman SHOULD NOT be taking care of her (or any) kids and really needs to just stop having them, somehow, but to "lock her up" because of mental retardation is not right at all.

[/b]
Um, what the heck? Lol. There's no "might" about her threat, she IS one. So yes, I'm all about locking HER up. But please point out to me how on earth you came up with the assumption that I'd want to lock up every mentally retarded person? I mean, really?
And she wouldn't be locked up because she's mentally retarded. She'd be locked up because she keeps having children and abusing them. She is a repeat offender with a high liklihood of offending again because mentally she can't make good judgements. I feel bad for her but I mostly feel bad for her kids and future kids.
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  #17  
June 19th, 2008, 11:28 AM
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i woudn't say mandatory sterilization... but I would say that a mandatory IUD be placed or an Essure device, which is reversible, until the woman has proved to be stable enough to have children.
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  #18  
June 19th, 2008, 03:02 PM
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I see both sides of this argument.

On one hand - I have a childhood friend of the family that is mentally retarded. She is also schizo-affective, peaked at the mental and emotional development of an 8 year old, can't read, can't write, can't drive, can't work, and can't even stay awake most of the day because of her medications. She appears to be "normal" sometimes - she doesn't need help performing basic functions like eating or bathing or whatever, but she cannot now and never will be able to even cook a decent meal for herself. She recently got married (to a guy that has similar disabilities) and they want children now, because other couples their age are having babies, and they think that just because they are in their 20's that they can have what others have. They don't understand that they are challenged - they think that they can do anything and everything that a normal couple in their 20's can do. For this girl to have even one child would be catastrophic for everyone. The child would be neglected and maybe even abused, the mother and father would be sent into a manic tailspin, and grandma would ultimately raise the child, that is if the state didn't take custody.


So, I can see where in some cases, yes, that would probably be the best thing to do. HOWEVER, I do not think it should ever become a law or right of the government to do it. In my friend's case, it would be a good thing, but I don't trust the government to take away something huge like that. Car seat laws, eh, whatever... but it's way to slippery of a slope to even start doing that, to anyone.


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  #19  
June 20th, 2008, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pixie_punk @ Jun 16 2008, 11:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>She's a lousy parent, but I don't see how that makes her a danger to society as a whole.

I agree with everyone that mandatory sterilization is just a really, REALLY bad idea.[/b]
She IS a danger to society. Her children are a part of society. If someone repeatedly beats and stalks and assaults a few specific individuals they are still a danger to society and get locked up. Likewise, she's clearly a danger to her children and her future children hence she needs to be put away somewhere.
[/b]
So would you advocate locking up EVERY mentally retarded person then, because many can't function (to our standards) in society and "might" be a threat?

I agree that this woman SHOULD NOT be taking care of her (or any) kids and really needs to just stop having them, somehow, but to "lock her up" because of mental retardation is not right at all.

[/b][/quote]

Um, what the heck? Lol. There's no "might" about her threat, she IS one. So yes, I'm all about locking HER up. But please point out to me how on earth you came up with the assumption that I'd want to lock up every mentally retarded person? I mean, really?
And she wouldn't be locked up because she's mentally retarded. She'd be locked up because she keeps having children and abusing them. She is a repeat offender with a high liklihood of offending again because mentally she can't make good judgements. I feel bad for her but I mostly feel bad for her kids and future kids.
[/b][/quote]

I didn't assume you would, I asked if you would advocate that. Because I see it as a very slippery slope - first we lock this woman up, for good reason. Then we go and say "well here's the precedent... this person did it once, better lock her up too because she might turn into this lady." Then it turns into "well let's lock all these people up because they're just like those other two and might as well stop it before it starts, right?" So it was more of a hypothetical question. I wasn't saying "well if you agree with this, you must also agree with this," I was asking "if you agree with this, what about this?"
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  #20  
June 20th, 2008, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Momo @ Jun 17 2008, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotemain'>
Quote:
She's a lousy parent, but I don't see how that makes her a danger to society as a whole.

I agree with everyone that mandatory sterilization is just a really, REALLY bad idea.[/b]
She IS a danger to society. Her children are a part of society. If someone repeatedly beats and stalks and assaults a few specific individuals they are still a danger to society and get locked up. Likewise, she's clearly a danger to her children and her future children hence she needs to be put away somewhere.
[/b]
So would you advocate locking up EVERY mentally retarded person then, because many can't function (to our standards) in society and "might" be a threat?

I agree that this woman SHOULD NOT be taking care of her (or any) kids and really needs to just stop having them, somehow, but to "lock her up" because of mental retardation is not right at all.

[/b]
Um, what the heck? Lol. There's no "might" about her threat, she IS one. So yes, I'm all about locking HER up. But please point out to me how on earth you came up with the assumption that I'd want to lock up every mentally retarded person? I mean, really?
And she wouldn't be locked up because she's mentally retarded. She'd be locked up because she keeps having children and abusing them. She is a repeat offender with a high liklihood of offending again because mentally she can't make good judgements. I feel bad for her but I mostly feel bad for her kids and future kids.
[/b][/quote]

I didn't assume you would, I asked if you would advocate that. Because I see it as a very slippery slope - first we lock this woman up, for good reason. Then we go and say "well here's the precedent... this person did it once, better lock her up too because she might turn into this lady." Then it turns into "well let's lock all these people up because they're just like those other two and might as well stop it before it starts, right?" So it was more of a hypothetical question. I wasn't saying "well if you agree with this, you must also agree with this," I was asking "if you agree with this, what about this?"
[/b][/quote]

How is locking up, or institutionalizing, a criminal who happens to be mentally retarded a slippery slope? I don't agree with profiling. I agree with convictions and evidence though. If someone has repeated offenses than they need to be taken out of society. Because she's mentally retarded I would more support her being institutionalized somewhere where she can be safe and taken care of and away from the world to cause more harm rather than a jail. But in no way would I advocate the institutionalization of all mentally retarded folks. Many of them are not criminals. She is. I 100% support taking away the rights of criminals and locking them away from general society. Is that a slippery slope? Only for those who want to go out and commit crimes!
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