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Can someone tell me how this can happen?


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  #1  
June 21st, 2008, 12:58 AM
aprilmomto3's Avatar Veteran
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Dad grounds daughter, but court ungrounds her

This link above is an article I came across, about a father that grounded his daughter from a school trip because she had done something on the computer that he disapproved of. Anyway, apparently the girl got a lawyer and the judge overturned the grounding. I had no idea that something like that could even happen. Thoughts anyone?
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  #2  
June 21st, 2008, 01:49 AM
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That's absurd. I consider myself a pretty relaxed person, as far as parenting goes, but when kids start calling the shots and dictating parental conduct, that is way too far. Kids need some restriction, it seems like not wanting a kid on the internet is reasonable, with all this MySpace stuff. Some 12 year olds can handle the internet with maturity, most of them can't.
There is no reason that parents shouldn't be allowed to impose reasonable consequences on their kids for poor behaviour, and stories like this are just further evidence of a culture where parents (or in this case, the courts) are getting too soft on boundaries. Kids need boundaries.
Entitlement; a false sense of entitlement. That's what it comes down to. Kids being given too much power and out-ranking their own parents in the familial and social hierarchy. When I was in the US, I saw a lot of this in my older riding students. My generation (at least in the states, I do not notice this as much here) and the one right after mine seems to be the leading ages for this attitude. I'm hoping it doesn't persist.
Absolutely ridiculous.
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  #3  
June 21st, 2008, 02:00 AM
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WOW!!!
Firstly,this is what this new age parenting does to kids.These days,we arent allowed to spank,shout or do much at all to disipline kids,and when someone actually does,the kids lack of respect (due to having no freakin boundries) makes them do things like this to their own parents.Iv seen it lots of times! Iv seen mothers raise their hand to their kid because he/she was TOTALLY out of control,and Iv seen the kid say "If you touch me,I´ll call social services!".Its rediculous and there´s proof that this new age rubbish isnt working.I mean,look at kids today and compare them to kids 10 years ago.They have no respect,they are lazy,they have no goals,they are cheeky,they do what they want when they want etc etc

When I was a kid,If I had even dared to threaten my parents with doing something like that to them,my feet wouldent have touched the ground! Yes,I was spanked,grounded and shouted at,but thanks to that,I respected my elders,and I would never have dared to even talk back to them,let alone take them to court for punishing me!!! I just cant beleive it...dont people see whats happening? We have to fear our kids? They can seek a second opnion when punished?? "Parents are going to be walking on egg shells from now on." Oh H*LL NO!!
If this kid was grounded,she had obviously done something to deserve it,so I dont even know why the judge took any notice of her...and as for a judge going against her parents,well,thats disgusting.I guess we should just let our kids walk all over us and carry on with the new age parenting which is obviously going wonderfully

Im sorry,but I think this is stupid and VERY wrong.I dont know what Id thionk of my kid after this
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  #4  
June 21st, 2008, 03:21 AM
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You, madam, are my kind of woman.
I agree. Kids with the aforementioned sense of entitlement that this new age parenting is encouraging are disrespectful, don't understand boundaries, feel that the world revolves around them, and have no regard for their elders.

I grew up similarly to you. While my mother was not a spanker, she was definitely a shouter and discipliner! And all nine kids of my family, boy, we learned real quickly when her face started turning red, there was going to be trouble. And mostly, we didn't push it. When we did, we got grounded or chores, then we sulked, and then we got over it and didn't push that particular boundary again. Nothing more too it. In our 20's and 30's, we all are responsible adults, with careers and responsibilities, and none of us are psychologically traumatized or hate our parents for discipline. We get on just fine.

But here comes "Generation Me," and they're going to run our lives as educators, coaches, managers, bosses, and parents.
I had a 12 year old girl who I dreaded, truly dreaded, as a horseback riding student. She spent several months just being a spoiled brat, and I grudgingly put up with it. My last straw with her was when I was momentarily helping a younger kid, and she snapped her fingers in my face, and said, "Hey, hey! Focus on me!" I asked her family to take their business elsewhere after that.

My fiancé also has issues with "Generation Me" in the workplace when he was teaching this year. He came home one day and lamented to the family that a middle-schooler had worn an inappropriate skirt to school that was showing her pants (undergarments to Americans), and the parents wanted him investigated by the school board for reporting it. Why? Because reporting it had implied that he had noticed, and noticing is, apparently, sexual. You can't even send a 12 year old home from school or to the nurse's to change any more, because everyone's completely neurotic about saying anything!
This new age parenting completely defies logic.
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  #5  
June 21st, 2008, 03:32 AM
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OMG I find it appalling that children are going to hear about this and think that they can go do something like this themselves!

This is almost like the kid who divorced his parents.
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  #6  
June 21st, 2008, 03:40 AM
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Quote:
OMG I find it appalling that children are going to hear about this and think that they can go do something like this themselves!

This is almost like the kid who divorced his parents.[/b]
I remember that!

Generation Me will, at the very least, continue to provide us with a great deal of entertainment and shock in such things for a long, long time.
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  #7  
June 21st, 2008, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Generation Me will, at the very least, continue to provide us with a great deal of entertainment and shock in such things for a long, long time.[/b]

Unless the laws change they will
If I were that girls mother,I would have packed her suitcase and sent her to live with the judge for a week with a note saying "If you are going to deny me the right to educate and discipline my child,I think you should at least understand what I have to deal with on daily basis.Lets see if you can do better.Good luck! Im going on vacation!".
Infact,Im positive that those who defend the new age parenting style and defend kids like this,DONT HAVE KIDS!

Maybe after a week of being ignored,spoken too as if he were stupid,disrespected and pushed to the limit,he will actually understand why she was grounded in the first place
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  #8  
June 21st, 2008, 09:59 AM
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Someone needs to slap the crap outta that judge and the lawyer. I guess my butt would have been in jail because my kid still would not have gone on that trip cuz she wouldnt have been able to sit down for a week for pulling that kind of crap
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  #9  
June 21st, 2008, 10:15 AM
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Someone needs to slap the crap outta that judge and the lawyer. I guess my butt would have been in jail because my kid still would not have gone on that trip cuz she wouldnt have been able to sit down for a week for pulling that kind of crap[/b]
Amen!!!
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  #10  
June 21st, 2008, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Someone needs to slap the crap outta that judge and the lawyer. I guess my butt would have been in jail because my kid still would not have gone on that trip cuz she wouldnt have been able to sit down for a week for pulling that kind of crap[/b]
Amen!!!
[/b]
Seriously.

And a bit off topic, but how did a 12 year old get the funding to have legal counsel to begin with?
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  #11  
June 21st, 2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Someone needs to slap the crap outta that judge and the lawyer. I guess my butt would have been in jail because my kid still would not have gone on that trip cuz she wouldnt have been able to sit down for a week for pulling that kind of crap[/b]
Amen!!!
[/b]
Seriously.

And a bit off topic, but how did a 12 year old get the funding to have legal counsel to begin with?

[/b]

Quote:
The girl reportedly had access to the courts using a court-appointed attorney who represented her in her parents' custody dispute.[/b]
That's how.

She was only doing what she has seen modeled for her. Settling family related things using the court system.

BTW, what the hell is "new age parenting"?
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  #12  
June 21st, 2008, 03:41 PM
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BTW, what the hell is "new age parenting"?[/b]
New age parenting is basicly the only parenting style that is allowed these days Being as spanking is not allowed,raising your voice is looked down upon,and being grounded is "harsh",people are now trying to discipline their kids by doing absolutely nothing..or "new age parenting" as most profesionals call it

Iv read about it (I was given a leaflet about it from my sons teacher),and personally,I think its a joke.The next generation is going to be totally useless if this catches on,because a child CANT discipline his/her self.After reading about it,I seriously wondered where we (parents) stand,because its as if we arent really needed these days-being as kids can do what ever the heck they want,all we seem to be expected to do is feed and clothe them

I dont know who invented this dumb,laid back parenting style,but Id like to ask him/her to take a look at how kids were raised 20 years ago and how they turned out,and how kids are being raised and turing out these days.
Its deffinately NOT working
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  #13  
June 21st, 2008, 04:00 PM
irishxrose
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Wait, let me get this straight. If you don't hit your kids or scream at them then suddenly your kids are going to turn out to be whiny brats saying me me me?

I believe in gentle discipline. No spanking, no screaming, no violence in my home. And I must say my two year old is a hell of a lot more behaved than my friend's two year old kid who she yells at and spanks. So please tell me I'm just misunderstanding you.
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  #14  
June 21st, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Andrika,
I don't think it's just yelling, spanking or harsh discipline that is being talked about. A few generations ago, parents were the ultimate authority in a minor's life. Today there is no boundary. A kid can call CYS and get the parents investigated and make their life Hell, or go to the courts and get emancipated or get a grounding overturned. It's rediculous! I think if a parent punishes their child (in whatever non-violent form) then that is their business and society and the judicial system need to stay out of it! If I want to ground my daughter or take away her cell phone or take the power cord to the computer away then so be it. I should have that right as a parent! It seems a lot of parents don't expect their children to respect them and that is the root of the problem, IMO.

As for the judge, I hope s/he never works again! That is insane! If I were a judge I wouldn't even hear a case like this let alone compromise parental authority and set a precedent for other rebellious teens to follow!
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  #15  
June 21st, 2008, 04:59 PM
irishxrose
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Quote:
Andrika,
I don't think it's just yelling, spanking or harsh discipline that is being talked about. A few generations ago, parents were the ultimate authority in a minor's life. Today there is no boundary. A kid can call CYS and get the parents investigated and make their life Hell, or go to the courts and get emancipated or get a grounding overturned. It's rediculous! I think if a parent punishes their child (in whatever non-violent form) then that is their business and society and the judicial system need to stay out of it! If I want to ground my daughter or take away her cell phone or take the power cord to the computer away then so be it. I should have that right as a parent! It seems a lot of parents don't expect their children to respect them and that is the root of the problem, IMO.

As for the judge, I hope s/he never works again! That is insane! If I were a judge I wouldn't even hear a case like this let alone compromise parental authority and set a precedent for other rebellious teens to follow! [/b]
I understand that, and I agree. However, a few posts made it sound like if you don't spank or yell at your kids, they're going to turn out like the brat in the OP. I just wanted some clarification, and I really I hope I was just misunderstanding the posts.

About the OP (which I meant to write about in my earlier post but Jason was leaving for work so I forgot to lol), that is ridiculous. What a freaking brat. HOWEVER, perhaps we should talk about an earlier issue in this girl's life. Her parents are divorced and obviously used the courts for that and the custody issue. Perhaps the girl just saw that, and thought it was normal? Besides if it was a nasty divorce no doubt she was thrown in the middle and perhaps she was lashing out about the grounding for some reason. My guess it's because of the custody dispute and the divorce and it made her feel frustrated or something like that. Eh, I don't know, I'm just rambling. Just a thought though.
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  #16  
June 22nd, 2008, 01:26 AM
PinkSand's Avatar Veteran
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Quote:
WOW!!!
Firstly,this is what this new age parenting does to kids.These days,we arent allowed to spank,shout or do much at all to disipline kids,and when someone actually does,the kids lack of respect (due to having no freakin boundries) makes them do things like this to their own parents.Iv seen it lots of times! Iv seen mothers raise their hand to their kid because he/she was TOTALLY out of control,and Iv seen the kid say "If you touch me,I´ll call social services!".Its rediculous and there´s proof that this new age rubbish isnt working.I mean,look at kids today and compare them to kids 10 years ago.They have no respect,they are lazy,they have no goals,they are cheeky,they do what they want when they want etc etc

When I was a kid,If I had even dared to threaten my parents with doing something like that to them,my feet wouldent have touched the ground! Yes,I was spanked,grounded and shouted at,but thanks to that,I respected my elders,and I would never have dared to even talk back to them,let alone take them to court for punishing me!!! I just cant beleive it...dont people see whats happening? We have to fear our kids? They can seek a second opnion when punished?? "Parents are going to be walking on egg shells from now on." Oh H*LL NO!!
If this kid was grounded,she had obviously done something to deserve it,so I dont even know why the judge took any notice of her...and as for a judge going against her parents,well,thats disgusting.I guess we should just let our kids walk all over us and carry on with the new age parenting which is obviously going wonderfully

Im sorry,but I think this is stupid and VERY wrong.I dont know what Id thionk of my kid after this [/b]

Quote:
You, madam, are my kind of woman.
I agree. Kids with the aforementioned sense of entitlement that this new age parenting is encouraging are disrespectful, don't understand boundaries, feel that the world revolves around them, and have no regard for their elders.

I grew up similarly to you. While my mother was not a spanker, she was definitely a shouter and discipliner! And all nine kids of my family, boy, we learned real quickly when her face started turning red, there was going to be trouble. And mostly, we didn't push it. When we did, we got grounded or chores, then we sulked, and then we got over it and didn't push that particular boundary again. Nothing more too it. In our 20's and 30's, we all are responsible adults, with careers and responsibilities, and none of us are psychologically traumatized or hate our parents for discipline. We get on just fine.

But here comes "Generation Me," and they're going to run our lives as educators, coaches, managers, bosses, and parents.
I had a 12 year old girl who I dreaded, truly dreaded, as a horseback riding student. She spent several months just being a spoiled brat, and I grudgingly put up with it. My last straw with her was when I was momentarily helping a younger kid, and she snapped her fingers in my face, and said, "Hey, hey! Focus on me!" I asked her family to take their business elsewhere after that.

My fiancé also has issues with "Generation Me" in the workplace when he was teaching this year. He came home one day and lamented to the family that a middle-schooler had worn an inappropriate skirt to school that was showing her pants (undergarments to Americans), and the parents wanted him investigated by the school board for reporting it. Why? Because reporting it had implied that he had noticed, and noticing is, apparently, sexual. You can't even send a 12 year old home from school or to the nurse's to change any more, because everyone's completely neurotic about saying anything!
This new age parenting completely defies logic.[/b]

Quote:
Quote:
OMG I find it appalling that children are going to hear about this and think that they can go do something like this themselves!

This is almost like the kid who divorced his parents.[/b]
I remember that!

Generation Me will, at the very least, continue to provide us with a great deal of entertainment and shock in such things for a long, long time.
[/b]

Quote:
Quote:
Generation Me will, at the very least, continue to provide us with a great deal of entertainment and shock in such things for a long, long time.[/b]

Unless the laws change they will
If I were that girls mother,I would have packed her suitcase and sent her to live with the judge for a week with a note saying "If you are going to deny me the right to educate and discipline my child,I think you should at least understand what I have to deal with on daily basis.Lets see if you can do better.Good luck! Im going on vacation!".
Infact,Im positive that those who defend the new age parenting style and defend kids like this,DONT HAVE KIDS!

Maybe after a week of being ignored,spoken too as if he were stupid,disrespected and pushed to the limit,he will actually understand why she was grounded in the first place
[/b]

Quote:
Someone needs to slap the crap outta that judge and the lawyer. I guess my butt would have been in jail because my kid still would not have gone on that trip cuz she wouldnt have been able to sit down for a week for pulling that kind of crap[/b]
and for goodness sake, god forbid little Johnny fears his parents, since fearing authority is just so awful! Kids don't fear a ###### thing these days AND I don't think it is a good thing!

This story seems a little different.
Quebec girl goes on class trip after taking father to court
This story says she got in an argument with her step-mother while others say something different.

I also read somewhere else that she used her mothers divorce lawyer. Hmm
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  #17  
June 22nd, 2008, 08:34 AM
aprilmomto3's Avatar Veteran
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That article made it look even worse to me. Also a three day trip because it is the end of elementary school??? My child wouldn't be going anyway!
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  #18  
June 22nd, 2008, 09:12 AM
Gracey and Evan's Ma
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I dont really want my kids to fear me, Id rather them RESPECT me.. but thats just MPO.

We dont scream or spank, but Im not opposed to time-outs or groundings.. but I dont see why physical punishment or mental punishment are necessary to keep children from growing up to be "brats?"

And really, what does screaming accomplish? You scare the sht out of your child? You can get the same message across in a lower, but serious tone. My dad used to scream at me, and I just remember thinking, "what a freakin' psycho!" I love my dad, but he doesnt yell at me anymore.. at the time I couldnt stand him and had NO respect for him because of the way he talked to me.

I just dont understand why screaming and spanking are necessary in raising non-brats... seems a little backwards TO ME...


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  #19  
June 22nd, 2008, 10:25 AM
Gina1978's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
I dont really want my kids to fear me, Id rather them RESPECT me.. but thats just MPO.[/b]
Its not about getting your kids to fear you,its more about making them understand that certain behaviour is not going be accepted and that there will be consiquenses for what they do.Weather that be spanking,grounding etc kwim? A little fear of what will happen if they *fill in the blak space* has never killed anyone,if anything,it has prevented kids from getting into trouble since the beggining of time.

Quote:
I dont see why physical punishment or mental punishment are necessary to keep children from growing up to be "brats?"[/b]
It isnt always necesary at all.My daughter is very laid back and soft discipline works fine with her.Now my son is a different story.Each child is different,and soft discipline doesnt work for them all.My son would laugh in the face of "time out" or "soft but serious" talking as punishment,just as most kids these days would too.Why use something that they arent going to react to?

Quote:
And really, what does screaming accomplish? You scare the sht out of your child? You can get the same message across in a lower, but serious tone.[/b]
Thats not always true.Have you ever tried to get through to a totally out of control child/children by using a soft low tone?? Sometimes its VERY necesary to raise your voice/shout.I shout when I want them to know that I am being VERY serious (usually its because my kids are fighting kwim?).Infact,raising my voice is a warning and they know a spanking will come next if they dont listen.It doesnt scare the sh*t out of them at all,it just lets them know that they have to stop what ever it is they are doing and behave.
In this house,I count to three in a raised voice and by the time Iv finished,they have usually calmed down and I dont need to go to the next level.
Are they traumatized? No way! Does it work? VERY well.Are they scared of me? Nope.
They respect me and they know that when I shout,its because they are getting out of control and have to stop.Certain behaviour is just not acceptable.
Shouting doesnt hurt.All I know is,when my kids are fighting,Id NEVER get them to listen or even hear me if I aproched them in a low but serious voice.They probably wouldent even know I was there lol.Shouting acomplishes ALOT with certain kids and in certain situations and it can even be more effective than a swift spank!

Quote:
I just dont understand why screaming and spanking are necessary in raising non-brats... seems a little backwards TO ME...[/b]
As I said,screaming and spanking arent always a must (there are some great kids out there),but being totally laid back (no shouting,no spanking,soft talking,and fluffy "punishments") isnt always good either.Some kids respond to the slightest little thing,and others need a smack.Which is wrong? Neither..its finding the right parenting style for each child.I dont want my kids to fear me (which they dont) but I am certainly not going to live in fear of my kids either kwim?

If my kids EVER threatened me in any way,their butt could guide Santas sleigh! Thats all Im going to say.
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  #20  
June 22nd, 2008, 11:20 AM
Gracey and Evan's Ma
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Quote:
Quote:
I dont really want my kids to fear me, Id rather them RESPECT me.. but thats just MPO.[/b]
Its not about getting your kids to fear you,its more about making them understand that certain behaviour is not going be accepted and that there will be consiquenses for what they do.Weather that be spanking,grounding etc kwim? A little fear of what will happen if they *fill in the blak space* has never killed anyone,if anything,it has prevented kids from getting into trouble since the beggining of time.

Quote:
I dont see why physical punishment or mental punishment are necessary to keep children from growing up to be "brats?"[/b]
It isnt always necesary at all.My daughter is very laid back and soft discipline works fine with her.Now my son is a different story.Each child is different,and soft discipline doesnt work for them all.My son would laugh in the face of "time out" or "soft but serious" talking as punishment,just as most kids these days would too.Why use something that they arent going to react to?

Quote:
And really, what does screaming accomplish? You scare the sht out of your child? You can get the same message across in a lower, but serious tone.[/b]
Thats not always true.Have you ever tried to get through to a totally out of control child/children by using a soft low tone?? Sometimes its VERY necesary to raise your voice/shout.I shout when I want them to know that I am being VERY serious (usually its because my kids are fighting kwim?).Infact,raising my voice is a warning and they know a spanking will come next if they dont listen.It doesnt scare the sh*t out of them at all,it just lets them know that they have to stop what ever it is they are doing and behave.
In this house,I count to three in a raised voice and by the time Iv finished,they have usually calmed down and I dont need to go to the next level.
Are they traumatized? No way! Does it work? VERY well.Are they scared of me? Nope.
They respect me and they know that when I shout,its because they are getting out of control and have to stop.Certain behaviour is just not acceptable.
Shouting doesnt hurt.All I know is,when my kids are fighting,Id NEVER get them to listen or even hear me if I aproched them in a low but serious voice.They probably wouldent even know I was there lol.Shouting acomplishes ALOT with certain kids and in certain situations and it can even be more effective than a swift spank!

Quote:
I just dont understand why screaming and spanking are necessary in raising non-brats... seems a little backwards TO ME...[/b]
As I said,screaming and spanking arent always a must (there are some great kids out there),but being totally laid back (no shouting,no spanking,soft talking,and fluffy "punishments") isnt always good either.Some kids respond to the slightest little thing,and others need a smack.Which is wrong? Neither..its finding the right parenting style for each child.I dont want my kids to fear me (which they dont) but I am certainly not going to live in fear of my kids either kwim?

If my kids EVER threatened me in any way,their butt could guide Santas sleigh! Thats all Im going to say.
[/b]

I strongly disagree with most of that. Screaming CAN hurt. Spanking DOES hurt, otherwise, it wouldnt be effective. Ive ran into my share of out of control children...one thing that i found quite common was, of course sending these kids to their rooms to reflect on what they did wrong or grounding them didnt work..their rooms were covered in gaming systems/computers/other "fun" things for the children.

Either way.. I dont believe that my kids should be spanked, so I dont spank mine.. you believe kids sometimes need spankings, so you spank yours---fine.. However, I find it ridiculous that ppl automatically assume that this girl came from a non-screaming, non-spanking household.

Besides the logic makes no sense. I dont see how anyone can assume that this girl came from a punishment-free household with no boundaries, yet, she took her father to court for punishing her?
I could see a likely story being: mommy got mad at daddy, so she took him to court and fixed it...now Im mad at dad, so ill take dad to court to fix it. OR maybe dad had current custody, so mom couldnt over-turn the decision herself-so she told her daughter to take him to court?

Its also a huge possibility that the reason for the girl acting out, is a direct result of her parents divorce. Its a pretty well known fact that divorce takes quite a toll on children of ANY age.. so sure, lets whoop her butt and scream at her because she is suffering from the PARENTS problems.

Maybe she came from a family where they sued ppl over every little thing? Maybe her parents were threatening to take each other to court over every little thing? Maybe it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with not being yelled at or spanked.

Its no wonder that children have a tendency to act the way they do now. Look at the divorce rates! Look at the complete disrespect that goes on in family systems.. not just between parent and child, but between the PARENTS.

I think that there are far more reasons for kids' behavioral problems ("bratty-ness"), than today's parents lack of physical punishment or yelling.
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