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70 year old mother of IVF twins.


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  #1  
July 3rd, 2008, 03:26 PM
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1376290.ece


What do you think? Is this "moral" or "okay"?
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  #2  
July 3rd, 2008, 03:42 PM
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Ummm, no way is that okay!
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  #3  
July 3rd, 2008, 03:50 PM
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Im all for IVF and helping a woman get pregnant..but this is NOT ok.I dont even know where to start.
How was she allowed to even have IVF at that age? Here,there is an age limit (45).

I dont think thats right at all...infact,exuse the expression,but it seems kind of sick that its even allowed if you ask me.
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  #4  
July 3rd, 2008, 03:59 PM
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I cant imagine at my age almost 60 being or wanting to be having a child. I dont think its right nor to I understand why a dr. would do this. And what is left to inherit the father mortaged and sold and borrowed went into major debt for this. I just dont understand this at all
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  #5  
July 3rd, 2008, 04:14 PM
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I wonder how it makes their daughters feel to know that they were not good enough, and that their parents would go to those lengths to have a boy. I feel sorry for the poor girl that was born.
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  #6  
July 3rd, 2008, 04:42 PM
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My instinct is to say "wrong, big-time wrong" but ... my brain is playing devil's advocate with me, so I might as well post some of the other thoughts going on in my brain...

First of all, who even knows how she REALLY felt about it all, she may not have had much of an option if her hubby decided this was going to happen.

What's troubling to me in this story is that there are places where there are specific laws surrounding inheritances based on gender. It sounds like a matter of wanting to keep the family's property in the family. In some places, a family with no male children will simply lose everything when the father dies. It isn't a given that the daughters weren't "good enough" for the dad - perhaps, in fact, he loves them so much that he wants to ensure that they aren't left destitute after he passes. (Think of any of Jane Austen's novels!)

Given the close family living situations in most areas of the world, and the importance of family in India, I would guess that the whole family will be involved in raising these children, which would have been the case regardless. Probably the kids will turn out just fine - one of the sisters will likely raise them as her own after the parents pass away.

Either way, I wouldn't be too quick to judge, assuming that the the other daughters weren't good enough - there may have been heavy cultural/legal pressures on them that made them truly feel this was the best option for everyone in the family.

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  #7  
July 3rd, 2008, 04:54 PM
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My instinct is to say "wrong, big-time wrong" but ... my brain is playing devil's advocate with me, so I might as well post some of the other thoughts going on in my brain...

First of all, who even knows how she REALLY felt about it all, she may not have had much of an option if her hubby decided this was going to happen.

What's troubling to me in this story is that there are places where there are specific laws surrounding inheritances based on gender. It sounds like a matter of wanting to keep the family's property in the family. In some places, a family with no male children will simply lose everything when the father dies. It isn't a given that the daughters weren't "good enough" for the dad - perhaps, in fact, he loves them so much that he wants to ensure that they aren't left destitute after he passes. (Think of any of Jane Austen's novels!)

Given the close family living situations in most areas of the world, and the importance of family in India, I would guess that the whole family will be involved in raising these children, which would have been the case regardless. Probably the kids will turn out just fine - one of the sisters will likely raise them as her own after the parents pass away.

Either way, I wouldn't be too quick to judge, assuming that the the other daughters weren't good enough - there may have been heavy cultural/legal pressures on them that made them truly feel this was the best option for everyone in the family.[/b]
ITA.

Neither society nor the government has any right, IMO, to legislate reproductive rights. It was their choice to liquidate their assets to achieve this outcome, it is their right to pursue medical assistance to achieve this outcome. They used their money, she used her uterus. The rest of the details are, therefore, no one else's business. It is between this couple and their doctor.
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  #8  
July 3rd, 2008, 05:42 PM
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I think this is so unfair to those babies. These parents will probably not be able to live through their childhood, so where does it leave them? The responsibility falls on family members to care for children/teenagers that they didn't ask for. Granted, they may be more than happy to take on the task but it's still unfair. Those twins will live their whole adult life not knowing their parents and to me that's just cruel. Also, you know something is not right if the twins were only born 1 month premature weighing in at 2lbs each. My neice and nephew were born 8 weeks premature and weighed more than that.
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  #9  
July 3rd, 2008, 05:58 PM
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Ditto Above^^^ Also, if it was so important than why wait till you are 70 to do it? I am not saying that they don't have a right to do it, but I still think it is sick!
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  #10  
July 3rd, 2008, 06:17 PM
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it is SO sad for the little girl...

"I can die a happy man and a proud father." ...
And your 2 older girls?? They ar goats??!

"I just want to see my new babies and care for them while I am still able."
Yeah, a year or two!!
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  #11  
July 3rd, 2008, 06:18 PM
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I think this is so unfair to those babies. These parents will probably not be able to live through their childhood, so where does it leave them? The responsibility falls on family members to care for children/teenagers that they didn't ask for. Granted, they may be more than happy to take on the task but it's still unfair. Those twins will live their whole adult life not knowing their parents and to me that's just cruel. Also, you know something is not right if the twins were only born 1 month premature weighing in at 2lbs each. My neice and nephew were born 8 weeks premature and weighed more than that.[/b]
But it really all depends on the general health of the parents. People are living longer these days and some live into their 90's with decent health. It may not be all that common but we simply don't know what will happen. We only know that it is more likely that their parents will die due to age related illnesses than if they were younger, not that they will.

As far as birthweight...it varies with babies. My 40 weeker weighed more than some women's babies who were 41wks or more. They sure are tiny though and hopefully don't have health proglems.

All that said, its not something "I" would do. I can't imagine chasing toddlers around the house on a daily basis when I'm in my 70's.
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  #12  
July 3rd, 2008, 07:48 PM
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I wasn't ultimately asking if this should be illegal... more so whether this is 'fair' to the babies, to the other children...

As far as inheritance, the article does say that they sacrificed a lot of money and went into debt for this to happen. So what is it that the boy will inherit?
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  #13  
July 3rd, 2008, 08:36 PM
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I don't think "fair" enters into the picture as much in India as it does here in the US. I think its extremely important over there to have a boy to carry on the family name. A boy is preferred over a girl. This article is quite sad.
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/200...03-05-voa17.cfm

The girls of India are disappearing. On average there are only about 930 girls for every 1,000 boys



As far as the inheritance in the story from the OP, I have no idea and am curious about that myself.
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  #14  
July 3rd, 2008, 08:46 PM
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Wow, thats old. But I don't think it should be illegal... however I wouldn't argue over an age limit either. Carrying babies (especially twins) that old has got to be risky!! ITA with Caitlin
Quote:
Also, you know something is not right if the twins were only born 1 month premature weighing in at 2lbs each. My neice and nephew were born 8 weeks premature and weighed more than that.,[/b]
something wasn't right.

BUT I also agree with Christina,
Quote:
Either way, I wouldn't be too quick to judge, assuming that the the other daughters weren't good enough - there may have been heavy cultural/legal pressures on them that made them truly feel this was the best option for everyone in the family.[/b]
there could be MANY factors involved that the article didn't even touch on. Seems like they were more interested that she broke the world record
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  #15  
July 3rd, 2008, 09:23 PM
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I wasn't ultimately asking if this should be illegal... more so whether this is 'fair' to the babies, to the other children...[/b]
I don't know how to answer that question, honestly. Is it fair or acceptable for a woman to have a child if she or her husband has Cancer? Is it fair for diabetics to have children?

For those of you that believe it is "sick" or "sad" that this woman conceived at such a mature age, that you pity the children and question the parent's ability to properly care for these children or predict a grim future; would any of you maintain that opposition while defending teen parents? It seems to be two sides of the same coin, at what age are you too mature to conceive or parent? Is it better or more acceptable to conceive at a significantly immature age or a significantly mature age?

Furthermore, I can't help but point out the social acceptance of men fathering children in their "golden years". No one bats an eyelash at a 60 or 70 year old man embarking on fatherhood, as long as he "plants his seed" in a 25 year old uterus. Just sayin.....
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  #16  
July 3rd, 2008, 11:04 PM
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Tonight I read about a woman who was 22, who gated her toddler in the kitchen and left him there for three days so she could go out and party. There now the old lady having a baby doesn’t seem nearly as sad or sick.

If they take care of their kids I could care less how old they are.

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  #17  
July 3rd, 2008, 11:34 PM
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It really doesn't bother me as long as the family makes provisions for the child when the parents pass away.

Unfortunately some cultures want male heirs to carry on the family name and business. And will do anything to make that happen. I understand the father went into considerable debt to pay for the treatments but that's just what some people do.
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  #18  
July 4th, 2008, 12:11 AM
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I guess I really don't understand it at all. I get the whole "too old" isn't PC thing, but come on seriously....she HAD to have had her menopause reversed to make this even possible. When we are reversing natural body processes that are occurring at a NORMAL & natural age in order to conceive children I personally completely find it wrong. There is a reason why the average woman cannot conceive past a certain age & that is because it is not in the best interest of the child or the mother. As far as "not batting an eye" when a man of this age does this with a younger woman, I don't agree. I have heard LOTS of negative comments about that as well. The difference when it is a woman is that children typically (although not always) predominantly rely on their moms for their well being in infancy & early child rearing. I could get a sperm donor & still meet all of DS's requirements...the same couldn't be said in a way that is equaled if my DH were saying this...he could get surrogate, but he STILL isn't pg, he isn't going through labor & he certainly couldn't BF our child. There are women that for whatever reason have early onset of menopause & have it then reversed in order to conceive, to me that is different since early menopause is an abnormality of how a woman's cycle typically works. It's like comparing getting plastic surgery to correct a facial injury & getting plastic surgery because you just want to be "prettier". One has a reason that is rooted in repairing that which has been damaged & the other is just a matter of trying to control one's biology for external reasons. I wish I knew a better way to explain it. I KNOW women of all ages can be good moms. My mom is about this age & she chase after my DS every day. I also know she didn't have to do the pg & the L&D and I know he completely poops her out & she doesn't have him for 8 hrs even....so 24/7 would be much harder on her & she's in GREAT shape & looks half the age of the woman in the article. I also know my gram is approaching 90 & I hear from everyone all the time how great she looks & she really is doing awesome for her age...but it is FOR HER AGE. There is no way she could really have had a baby at 70 & have kept up...not IMO. And my gram is in amazing condition when I see others at her age & compare. I do think it is ethically wrong for this couple to have children at that age. I simply do. To me there has to be a line in the sand somewhere & I am more than comfortable in saying 70 is WAY past it. If 70 is fine, what about 90? Where exactly IS it too far out? Same with being too young. My gram was 9 when she started her af...does that mean she was ready to raise kids then? Heck no, she was in 3rd grade. Call me judgmental or what you will but I think that children have a right to have their best interest kept in mind & IMO having babies at that age is not keeping that in mind...whatever the culture. Believe me - they aren't the only couple in their country at that age facing passing without a son. It has happened before & will happen in the future I can guarantee. If it's an issue with inheritance law then work to change it - buying into extreme measures like this in order to conform to a system that is wrong will just mean they never change it. It would be far better to focus resources on changing the system IMO...and I am still not convinced from anything I read that that was the motivating factor anyway.
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  #19  
July 4th, 2008, 07:38 AM
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I agree with a lot of what StaceyC said. and Tammy about tuhe age thing. She was healthy enough to be pregnant for 8 months with twins in her 70's. she may be a very healthy 90 year old you never know. I dont think its the ideal situation, and I do think it could possibly be "more fair" to those babies to have been born to a different family or different ages, but if she takes care of them whiel she is here and knows they will be cared for if shes not then that is what is important. I'd rather see well cared for children with a 70 year old mom then children to a 30 year old mom who are not cared for. To me, age is just a number. I hope the twins do well and grow well and have a wonderful life. Just because for reasons we may not fully understand do to cultural difference they really wanted a son does not mean they do not love their daughters. We are only seeing some of what they said in that article. We dont know them or the whole story or everything that they said during that interview.

as for going against nature no matter WHAT age you are if you go through IVF its going against nature. whether you went through menopause and had it reversed or whether you just have infertility issues. some people cant have children even though they would make wonderful parents and some people have children left and right but dont care for them. I think that would need to be a seperate debate though.
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  #20  
July 4th, 2008, 08:47 AM
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it is SO sad for the little girl...

"I can die a happy man and a proud father." ...
And your 2 older girls?? They ar goats??!

"I just want to see my new babies and care for them while I am still able."
Yeah, a year or two!! [/b]
So, nobody see's anything wrong with him saying this only after he finally had a son? If it doesn't matter the age then everyone would be okay with having a girl that was 13 take meds to start her period early just because she was ready to have a baby? I do have a problem with a man that age being a father, I think that he will not be able to be the part of children's lives that fathers need to be. I also believe that id the parents live till these children are 10 years old or so the poor kids will end up being the caregivers of the parents. I am sorry, it is wrong!
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