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  #1  
July 9th, 2008, 08:23 AM
*Mrs.T*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I looked back to make sure I didnt see a debate on this lol I didnt find one but Im sure there's been one


How do you feel about letting a baby CIO? Do you think there's a certain age when its ok to start or that it should never be used?



I personally feel like it should only be used in extreme circumstances. If the mom is about to have a break down, the best thing is just to go in another room, or outside and catch your breath. I feel like babies cry for a reason, and sometimes the reason is that they just want to be held or that they are overly tired but there is some reason, its not just to annoy you lol With that being said, once my oldest turned a year we started using CIO on her. She was used to being rocked to sleep but it got to a point to where she would fight it SO hard. She would (seriously) SCREAM at the top of her lungs and kick and squirm, but her eyes would be rolling back in her head she was so sleepy. So we started laying her down, she would cry for MAYBE 5 min and then fall asleep, after about a week she's started going straight to bed. We leave her paci in her crib and at night we lay her down and give it to her, and she never makes a sound. I HATE doing it but we couldnt do anything else with her. I really hope it never comes to that with my youngest but even if it does I wont do it before she's a year old. I just feel like a baby doesnt understand why they're being shut in a room and left to cry, and the thought breaks my heart. So I guess I dont really agree with it but I can understand its use if the mom seriously needs a break or the child is at least a year, and wont just go to sleep in your arms.
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  #2  
July 9th, 2008, 08:25 AM
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I'm 100% AGAINST CIO.
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  #3  
July 9th, 2008, 08:37 AM
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I'm against it as well. I do agree that sometimes if Mom is about to lose it you have to let them cry for a few minutes to recollect yourself. I've had to do it a few times. As far as using CIO as a sleep training method I don't agree with it AT ALL. Ben is 13 months old and still wakes most nights. If he's hungry he's hungry. I'm not going to let him scream just because I feel it's time he sleeps through the night.

I will go so far as to say that I think parents who let their children CIO in order to try to force them to sleep through the night are selfish. There that ought to get the debate rolling.
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  #4  
July 9th, 2008, 09:23 AM
Gina1978's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
I'm 100% AGAINST CIO.[/b]

Noelia is a cry baby..sheŽll cry most of the time sheŽs awake because she wants to entertained or held etc
But Iv NEVER let her CIO and I never will.Sometimes sheŽs had to cry for a couple of seconds because I was on the toilet (TIM lol) etc,but when she cries,she gets comforted-ALWAYS.
I dont beleive in using CIO with babys under any circumstances.
I think its fine to use once the child is old enough (say 2+ years old) and you KNOW that he/she is just crying to get his/her own way etc (not because he/she is in pain,hungry or feeling ill kwim?).

NEVER with a baby though because crying is the only means of comunication they have,there for they need to been seen too IMO.

ETA:I have also been in that situation where my baby has been crying for so long that I no longer know what to do..It makes ME cry lol.But even in those situations,the nearest Iv gotten to letting her CIO is sitting down and cuddling/rocking her whilst she continues to scream because thats all I could think of doing after trying everything else.Eventually,and in her own time she has calmed down (this used to happen in the first weeks when she was having gas troubles).
But I have never left the room,or left her alone to cry...when she cries,I hold her.Its what comes naturally.
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  #5  
July 9th, 2008, 09:54 AM
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DH tells me to let her cry but I can't...she can't tell me what she needs so of course I will go to her. Not to mention from 6 months on most babies are teething, and I know that I need DH to comfort me when I am in pain so I will obviously comfort my daughter.

So I won't do it, and don't agree with it unless of course the mom has no one else to help and needs to catch her breath and cool off, I have needed to do that, I step away take a few breaths and go back and usually that seems to help both me and her, If I am frustrated she is too. So it benefits us both.
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  #6  
July 9th, 2008, 09:59 AM
*Mrs.T*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
I'm against it as well. I do agree that sometimes if Mom is about to lose it you have to let them cry for a few minutes to recollect yourself. I've had to do it a few times. As far as using CIO as a sleep training method I don't agree with it AT ALL. Ben is 13 months old and still wakes most nights. If he's hungry he's hungry. I'm not going to let him scream just because I feel it's time he sleeps through the night.

I will go so far as to say that I think parents who let their children CIO in order to try to force them to sleep through the night are selfish. There that ought to get the debate rolling.[/b]
to the bold



If my oldest ever wakes at night I go in and get her, thats not when I use CIO. Im talking about 9-10pm when shes so sleepy she cant stand herself or anyone else lol I agree that if a baby wakes at night they need something, even if its just to be cuddled for a min. The past few nights Ive had to go in and give DD her paci because she's lost it. Ive been lucky though my oldest starting sleeping through the night at 2 months and my youngest sleeps about 6 hours at night.
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  #7  
July 9th, 2008, 10:02 AM
SweetSimpleThings's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think mom needing a moment to collect herself doesn't even fall under the category of cry-it-out.

I don't think I could ever do CIO, I'm lucky that I have a pretty good sleeper and have never gotten to the point of exhaustion and frustration where I've had to ponder it. But again, I think there's a huge difference between "put baby in bed, close the door and don't return, no matter how hard they cry" and "cuddle baby, nurse, lay them in the crib, and leave the room to see if they'll settle in a minute or two".

I don't think that letting a baby fuss or complain (not hearty full-on crying) for a few seconds or minutes is letting the baby CIO. Sometimes my DS wakes up in the middle of the night - sometimes he cries, and I go to him. Sometimes he makes what we call his zombie noises - sort of complaining/moaning. If I went in then, he'd be wide awake, but if I leave him to it for a minute or two, he falls back asleep. I don't think he actually has even woken up.

Unfortunately, for the purpose of debating, I think people get the idea that this issue is totally polarized, like extreme Ferbers on one side, and 100 % refuse to have any crying, ever, for any reason (even mom leaving the room for a minute). In truth, most moms are somewhere in the grey spectrum in between.
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  #8  
July 9th, 2008, 10:15 AM
Tofu Bacon
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This is a hard topic to debate because people tend to have their own definition of CIO. Personally, the only time I think its acceptable to leave a baby to cry is if Mama is about to lose her mind from the crying and needs to walk away and collect herself. I am completely against using CIO as a "sleep training" method.
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  #9  
July 9th, 2008, 10:46 AM
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I don't see a problem with letting a baby/child fuss for a few minutes. Sometimes when I lay Ben down he'll whine a bit as he rolls around finding his comfy spot. IMO that's totally different than letting them CIO.
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  #10  
July 9th, 2008, 11:22 AM
Little Mrs Sunshine
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Quote:
I'm against it as well. I do agree that sometimes if Mom is about to lose it you have to let them cry for a few minutes to recollect yourself. I've had to do it a few times. As far as using CIO as a sleep training method I don't agree with it AT ALL. Ben is 13 months old and still wakes most nights. If he's hungry he's hungry. I'm not going to let him scream just because I feel it's time he sleeps through the night.

I will go so far as to say that I think parents who let their children CIO in order to try to force them to sleep through the night are selfish. There that ought to get the debate rolling.[/b]
^ditto^

there was another discussion on it I will find a link for the OP later because everything I wanted to say I said in that thread, and as fellow debaters here know, when im passionate about a topic I have a LOT to say
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  #11  
July 9th, 2008, 11:40 AM
swade66's Avatar My friends call me HIRB.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm 100% AGAINST CIO.[/b]

Noelia is a cry baby..sheŽll cry most of the time sheŽs awake because she wants to entertained or held etc
But Iv NEVER let her CIO and I never will.Sometimes sheŽs had to cry for a couple of seconds because I was on the toilet (TIM lol) etc,but when she cries,she gets comforted-ALWAYS.
I dont beleive in using CIO with babys under any circumstances.
I think its fine to use once the child is old enough (say 2+ years old) and you KNOW that he/she is just crying to get his/her own way etc (not because he/she is in pain,hungry or feeling ill kwim?).

NEVER with a baby though because crying is the only means of comunication they have,there for they need to been seen too IMO.

ETA:I have also been in that situation where my baby has been crying for so long that I no longer know what to do..It makes ME cry lol.But even in those situations,the nearest Iv gotten to letting her CIO is sitting down and cuddling/rocking her whilst she continues to scream because thats all I could think of doing after trying everything else.Eventually,and in her own time she has calmed down (this used to happen in the first weeks when she was having gas troubles).
But I have never left the room,or left her alone to cry...when she cries,I hold her.Its what comes naturally.
[/b]
Same here. 100%
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  #12  
July 9th, 2008, 11:40 AM
Chunky Monkey's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I only used CIO AFTER I tried other methods of comforting my children. I made sure they were not hungry, didn't need burping, didn't need a diaper change, didn't want to be held, etc. Only then if they couldn't be comforted then I let them CIO. Sometimes they just need to cry. But I never just let them lay there and cry because there might actually be something wrong.
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  #13  
July 9th, 2008, 12:47 PM
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I'm going to use the same reply I have used every time CIO comes up for debate.

There are plenty of people who don't use CIO and have babies who also sleep well, and that's terrific. Really, whatever works for the whole family is what a family should use. Plus like a previous poster said, CIO is defined differently by different people. With all of that, it becomes a difficult subject to debate.

DH and I used this method and it worked very quickly and very well. We never let either of our kids cry for more than 10-15 minutes at bedtime, and that was only after every one of their needs had been met. Dry diaper, bedtime routine, nighttime feeding, you name it. It rarely happened that it went on that long, and when it did I double-checked them and reassured them, all of that. After a few days, not only were the kids not crying for long - they weren't crying at all. (Again, our experience - I know CIO doesn't work with every child and that's totally cool, too!)

The way I see it, it's our job as parents to teach a child the difference between what he wants and what he needs. I see no coincidence that studies are showing that toddlers these days do not get enough sleep. My child might want just one more cuddle, but what he needs is adequate sleep for his growing body. I also saw that many times our babies simply needed to expend some more energy before going to sleep for the night (this was especially true for my son). Fussing and even crying a little is their way of doing just that.

We also checked with our pediatrician to make sure we weren't doing anything that would damage either of our kids, both in the short-term and long-term.

From the American Academy of Pediatrics

The first passage is from the "age one month through three months" guidelines; the second is from the "four months through seven months" guidelines. While each parent should do what's best for their child, there is plenty of backing that using CIO properly (which winds up to be more of a fussing it out) is not neglectful or selfish.

One to three months:

Quote:
It's common for babies at this age to get their days and nights mixed up so that they're doing most of their sleeping during the day...

Sometimes you may think your baby is waking up when she's actually going through a phase of very light slumber. She could be squirming, startling, fussing, or even crying - and still be asleep. Or she may be awake but on the verge of drifting off again if left alone. Don't make the mistake of trying to comfort her during these moments; you'll only awaken her further and delay her going back to sleep. Instead, if you let her fuss and even cry for a few minutes, she'll learn to get herself to sleep without relying on you. Some babies actually need to let off energy by crying in order to settle into sleep or rouse themselves out of it. As much as fifteen to twenty minutes of fussing won't do your child any harm. Just be sure she's not crying out of hunger or pain, or because her diaper is wet. Though it may be difficult just to let her cry for even a minute or two, you and she will be much better off in the long run.[/b]
Four to seven months:

Quote:
Instead of letting your baby fall asleep during the bedtime ritual, settle her in her crib while she's still awake so she learns to fall asleep on her own. Gently put her head down, whisper your goodnight, and leave the room. If she cries, don't rush back in. She may calm down after a few minutes and fall asleep on her own.

But what if she's still crying lustily at the end of five minutes? Go in and comfort her for about a minute, without picking her up, and then leave. Let her know that you love her and are available if she needs you, but don't stay in the room. If she continues to cry, wait a little longer than five minutes before going back in again to repeat the sequence. Be consistent and firm. As hard as this is on you, it's harder on your baby if she senses you are wavering. The real reward will come when she awakens in the middle of the night and goes back to sleep without your help.[/b]
They also mention the 12-13 lb guideline as to when a baby can go 6-7 hours without a feeding (which is considered "overnight" by them).

Quote:
I will go so far as to say that I think parents who let their children CIO in order to try to force them to sleep through the night are selfish.[/b]
Using that reasoning, it could also be said that parents who don't use CIO because they can't stand to hear their babies cry are also selfish. I don't think it's a matter of "forcing" as much as it is a matter of "teaching." Again, we're teaching our kids that they need sleep for a healthy body.
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  #14  
July 9th, 2008, 01:13 PM
AMDG's Avatar Margaret
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As mothers, I think our instincts are to care for our babies and go to them if they are crying. I have talked to numerous moms who believe CIO is best and they all indicated that they had to fight their desires to rush to the baby to comfort him/her. One said she played music very loud so she couldn't hear the crying. Another said she sad outside the bedroom and sobbed. A third mom even told me that her husband physically restrained her from going to her baby because they had agreed to the CIO method but then hearing her baby's crying was too much for her.
I will not fight my motherly instincts. If my baby wants me in the middle of the night I will go to him. I had children knowing my days of sleeping well were likely over. My 10 month old is still waking once or twice a night to nurse - I'm fine with that. Sure, I wish I could get 7 hours of uninterrupted sleep but I'm a mother now - what I want is not the priority.
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  #15  
July 9th, 2008, 01:32 PM
KimberlyD0
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Quote:
I'm 100% AGAINST CIO.[/b]


A friend of mine used CIO to try and sleep train her LO. When she went in to get her in the morning she found out her LO has thrown up while crying and choked on it and passed away. Not a normal thing, extreamly rare in fact.

However, THATS what I think of everytime I hear someone ask me why I wont let her CIO

My first DD is 3 in Aug and has never to this day been left to CIO or CC. She's not spoiled and she goes to bed without a fuss everynight. Bedtime isn't a bad thing. Its a time of cuddles and stories.
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  #16  
July 9th, 2008, 03:19 PM
Gina1978's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm 100% AGAINST CIO.[/b]
A friend of mine used CIO to try and sleep train her LO. When she went in to get her in the morning she found out her LO has thrown up while crying and choked on it and passed away.
[/b]
OMG! How awful!
Im 100% against it (as I said in my PP) but I know that even when a mother choses to use this method,she has no intention of causing any harm to her child (in my opinion,no mothers choices do).
That poor mother will have to live with the guilt of what happened for the rest of her life..it must be awful for her,and as for what happened to her baby..thats heart breaking

There are many many reasons why I could never let my baby CIO,I only have to see her bottom lip tremble and I instictivly reach for her...but after hearing about this Im even more against it
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  #17  
July 9th, 2008, 03:45 PM
Little Mrs Sunshine
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that really enhances my belief in the link between cio and "sids"
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  #18  
July 9th, 2008, 03:58 PM
Tofu Bacon
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Quote:
I see no coincidence that studies are showing that toddlers these days do not get enough sleep.[/b]
Considering how popular CIO is, I don't see a coincidence either. I can't imagine how learning to associate bedtime with crying is conducive to sleep

Tigermom: do you have the link for that AAP excerpt? I
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  #19  
July 9th, 2008, 04:13 PM
SweetSimpleThings's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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As I said earlier, I'm grateful that we were able to have our DS sleeping well by six months, and that we never needed to consider CIO ... because I have seen situations with *some* kids where the CIO seemed to work easily and really was for the best (ie. cried for a few minutes) and they went from exhausted cranky babies to happy, engaged children during their waking hours, and their mothers regained a bit of sanity. I think if it's something someone is going to do, like all things, they need to get educated, look at all the issues, etc. Again, like all things, there are extremes - like in the spanking thread, most agreed that beating and leaving bruises was not spanking, and a swat could not be compared to a beating. What we called "spanking" varied from person to person. So too with CIO - for some this means "close the door and don't go back" and for some this might mean sitting with the baby, patting them, going to them every two or three minutes, etc. It's very difficult to make blanket assertions about what is right and what is wrong without understanding the nuances of how someone is approaching this issue in their own life.

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  #20  
July 9th, 2008, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
What we called "spanking" varied from person to person. So too with CIO - for some this means "close the door and don't go back" and for some this might mean sitting with the baby, patting them, going to them every two or three minutes, etc. It's very difficult to make blanket assertions about what is right and what is wrong without understanding the nuances of how someone is approaching this issue in their own life.[/b]
I agree.

While I am inclined to say that I am 100% against CIO, that is for me, my children, and my perception of what CIO is. Some people think that letting a baby cry at all is CIO, some people think that just closing the door and letting them cry/scream for however long it takes them to fall asleep is CIO, and much in between those situations - which makes this topic hard to debate.

My son is an incredibly easy baby when it comes to sleep - he usually goes to sleep on his own, and if he doesn't, he is asleep within 5-10 minutes of laying him down. We've never had a need for any type of CIO with him, thank goodness! With my daughter, from birth to present, it is INCREDIBLY hard to get her to sleep under any circumstances. When she was an infant, she would cry simply because she did not want to go to bed, wherever bed was. All babies, even in the same family are different, and there is no one parenting style/decision that works for everyone. I personally do not and would not use CIO, but that's me.


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