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Defamation: Movie documentary on Jewish beliefs


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  #1  
November 19th, 2009, 11:57 PM
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Apple - Movie Trailers - Defamation <--- Here's the trailer if you're interested
Quote:
In the tradition of films such as Roger & Me and Sherman’s March, Shamir embarks on a provocative and irreverent quest to answer the question, “What is anti-Semitism today?” Is it an immediate threat on the verge of coalescing into a second Holocaust? Or is it a scare tactic used by right-wing Zionists to discredit their critics? Speaking with the head of the Anti-Defamation League, controversial author Norman Finkelstein, and others, Yoav Shamir sets out to discover the realities of anti-Semitism today. His findings are shocking, enlightening and, surprisingly, often wryly funny. Winner of the Stanley Kubrick Award for Bold and Innovative Filmmaking at Michael Moore’s Traverse City Film Festival and awarded with a Special Jury Prizeat the 2009 Tribeca Film Festival for “addressing such a controversial subject with a humorous touch that allows people to ask serious questions,”DEFAMATION also has received praise, exuberant audience response and a provocative reputation at the Berlin Film Festival, Toronto’s Hot Docs and the San Francisco Jewish Film Festival
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Israeli Documentary Challenges Jewish Responses to Anti-Semitism | Film | Jewish Journal
Quote:
A Jewish-American journalist referred to Shamir as “the Israeli Mel Gibson,” implying that his censure of Israeli policy made him an anti-Semite. Recognizing that as an Israeli he had never directly experienced anti-Semitism, the naive but inquisitive filmmaker set off on a globetrotting mission to understand the term and its many uses. Almost immediately, he was led to Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, who granted Shamir unprecedented access to the ADL offices and allowed him to tag along on leadership missions to Europe. Foxman would soon regret the gesture. In a statement issued earlier this summer, after the film won the Special Jury Prize at the Tribeca Film Festival, the ADL denounced “Defamation” as “neither enlightening, nor edifying, nor compelling. It distorts the prevalence and impact of anti-Semitism and cheapens the Holocaust.”

“I think I was very fair with the ADL,” Shamir said, speaking to The Jewish Journal by phone from his home in Tel Aviv. “And they were fair with me, about giving me access and letting me do my own thing. I respect them for that. They truly believe that what they do is the greatest thing for Israel and for the Jewish people in general. I disagree with them.”
Defamation Movie Review From The Berlin Film Festival
Quote:
As journalism, pic is impressively evenhanded (as were "Checkpoint" and "5 Days"), even though the filmmaker never attempts to disguise his own left-leaning sympathies. He can't resist skewering the ADL a bit, making Foxman look somewhat sinister and Machiavellian behind his front of affability. Then again, persuasive but embittered Finkelstein, caught ranting about the "warmongers of Martha's Vineyard," doesn't come across too well either.

The most comic and disturbing sequences spring from footage of Israeli high school students visiting extermination camps in Poland. Struggling to come to grips with what the Holocaust means for their generation, they eat candy while watching archive footage of emaciated Auschwitz victims (a moment worthy of "Seinfeld"). Later, some kids confess they're scared to leave their hotel rooms because they've been warned by their teachers and the Secret Service agents accompanying them that the country is fit to burst with anti-Semites who mean them harm.
Is this a movie you'd be interested in seeing? Why or why not?
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  #2  
November 20th, 2009, 06:18 AM
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YES!! It sounds intriguing. After having lived in Kuwait for two years and having been constantly exposed to the "Muslim side of the story" with regards to Israel-Palestine, I would be fascinated to learn about the issue from a different angle.
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  #3  
November 21st, 2009, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by brui77 View Post
YES!! It sounds intriguing. After having lived in Kuwait for two years and having been constantly exposed to the "Muslim side of the story" with regards to Israel-Palestine, I would be fascinated to learn about the issue from a different angle.
Not until I came to Jm have *I* been accused as being anti semitic so I want to see it because I've just never experienced such vile hate until here! LOL!
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  #4  
November 21st, 2009, 01:14 PM
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Wow! Out of curiousity, what did you say that got you accused of being anti-Semitic? Something pro-Palestine?

I think that all of the trouble starts when you begin to equate a political entity (the State of Israel) with a religious group (the Jewish people). At that point, then people begin to interpret any criticism of the political entity as prejudice against the religion in general. Unfortunately, it is Israel itself (NOT the Jewish people at large) that has done everything in its power to encourage that association. I am NOT an anti-Semite, by any stretch of the imagination, but I refuse to be bullied into staying silent about the terrible things that the State of Israel does. (And there are many of them.) I wish that more people didn't have so much trouble making the distinction.
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  #5  
November 21st, 2009, 01:18 PM
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^ Actually, that's exactly what happened to me. I was reading about the State of Israel was treating the Palestinians and said I didn't think that was justifiable.. Apparently that makes me anti-Semitic. To me, both sides are guilty of atrocities and at that moment in time, I felt Israel was in the wrong.
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  #6  
November 30th, 2009, 03:49 AM
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There is no harm in free and fair debate but seperating Israel from Jews is like seperating the Vatican from Catholisism. It is the land given to us by G-d and it has never been excluded from our religion, culture etc. Unfortunately through history, there were several occupations by other people and most of them were aggressive. Just a question, when did Palestine become a country? as far as I am aware they are a group of people who resent Israel and their sole agenda is to destroy it. Israel, quite frankly, does not have the same agenda (or they would have managed to accomplish that a long time ago)..........
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  #7  
December 8th, 2009, 04:11 PM
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I completely agree with Ima. Israel's agenda has NEVER been to destroy any group of people to take control of the land.
Funny, though, those people who talk about Israel's "atrocities".... what would YOU expect YOUR government to do if you were constantly attacked by terrorists and suicide bombers? Would you suggest your country have a little peaceful talk with the guilty party or would you deman action and retaliation? Why is it then that when Israel takes certain measures toprotect its borders and its citizens, people criticize it and compare them to the actions of its attackers? When was the last time you heard an Israeli suicide bomber blew up a mosque, or an Arab bus or a religious center or school? Have you ever seen the videos of Palestinian adults forcibly grabbin chidlren to take them to the front of a fight so they will get hurt and the Israelis can be blamed of "shooting innocent children"? Have you ever seen the videos of Palestinian children being taught to hate and kill JEWS (not "Israelis") from as young as 3 years of age? Did you ever see the video from a Palestinian TV show showing a Jew killing "Mickey Mouse"? Now... when was the last time this attitudes came from Israel?
Now, I perfectly understand that people may have misinformation and believe that Israel's defensive actions are wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But as Ima said, it seems to me like a cop out argument to claim that you're JUST speaking against Israel but you have nothing against Jews. Israel is a JEWISH state, you can't separate the two. Of course, not all people who speak against Israel are downright anti-semitic, but there's also another interesting fact. Nowadays, it's not that cool to be anti-semitic. Not many people will agree with you if you (and I mean general "you" not talking about anyone in particular here) go around spreading a direct hateful message. So unlike other times when anti-semitism wasn't viewed in a negative light, today's anti-semites have to hide their ideas. And so they try to find other, more "PC" avenues to express their hatred. So they speak against "Israel", not against "Jews" when we know that the vast majority of people will pair the two together. So although not all of those who speak against israel are anti-semites, most if not all anti-semites will be outspoken against Israel. So you can't really blame a person for not knowing the true intentions when the lines are shady.

Sharon
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  #8  
December 8th, 2009, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mom2DavidandAaron View Post
I completely agree with Ima. Israel's agenda has NEVER been to destroy any group of people to take control of the land.
Funny, though, those people who talk about Israel's "atrocities".... what would YOU expect YOUR government to do if you were constantly attacked by terrorists and suicide bombers? Would you suggest your country have a little peaceful talk with the guilty party or would you deman action and retaliation? Why is it then that when Israel takes certain measures toprotect its borders and its citizens, people criticize it and compare them to the actions of its attackers? When was the last time you heard an Israeli suicide bomber blew up a mosque, or an Arab bus or a religious center or school? Have you ever seen the videos of Palestinian adults forcibly grabbin chidlren to take them to the front of a fight so they will get hurt and the Israelis can be blamed of "shooting innocent children"? Have you ever seen the videos of Palestinian children being taught to hate and kill JEWS (not "Israelis") from as young as 3 years of age? Did you ever see the video from a Palestinian TV show showing a Jew killing "Mickey Mouse"? Now... when was the last time this attitudes came from Israel?
Now, I perfectly understand that people may have misinformation and believe that Israel's defensive actions are wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But as Ima said, it seems to me like a cop out argument to claim that you're JUST speaking against Israel but you have nothing against Jews. Israel is a JEWISH state, you can't separate the two. Of course, not all people who speak against Israel are downright anti-semitic, but there's also another interesting fact. Nowadays, it's not that cool to be anti-semitic. Not many people will agree with you if you (and I mean general "you" not talking about anyone in particular here) go around spreading a direct hateful message. So unlike other times when anti-semitism wasn't viewed in a negative light, today's anti-semites have to hide their ideas. And so they try to find other, more "PC" avenues to express their hatred. So they speak against "Israel", not against "Jews" when we know that the vast majority of people will pair the two together. So although not all of those who speak against israel are anti-semites, most if not all anti-semites will be outspoken against Israel. So you can't really blame a person for not knowing the true intentions when the lines are shady.

Sharon
Hmm... that actually does make sense to me.. The poster that accused me of being anti-semitic was in Israel.. so for her to see I don't hate Jews would be hard for her to see I guess.

Sharon, I do hope you see this movie because YOUR review will be far more interesting to read.
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  #9  
December 9th, 2009, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2DavidandAaron View Post
I completely agree with Ima. Israel's agenda has NEVER been to destroy any group of people to take control of the land.
Funny, though, those people who talk about Israel's "atrocities".... what would YOU expect YOUR government to do if you were constantly attacked by terrorists and suicide bombers? Would you suggest your country have a little peaceful talk with the guilty party or would you deman action and retaliation? Why is it then that when Israel takes certain measures toprotect its borders and its citizens, people criticize it and compare them to the actions of its attackers? When was the last time you heard an Israeli suicide bomber blew up a mosque, or an Arab bus or a religious center or school? Have you ever seen the videos of Palestinian adults forcibly grabbin chidlren to take them to the front of a fight so they will get hurt and the Israelis can be blamed of "shooting innocent children"? Have you ever seen the videos of Palestinian children being taught to hate and kill JEWS (not "Israelis") from as young as 3 years of age? Did you ever see the video from a Palestinian TV show showing a Jew killing "Mickey Mouse"? Now... when was the last time this attitudes came from Israel?
Now, I perfectly understand that people may have misinformation and believe that Israel's defensive actions are wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But as Ima said, it seems to me like a cop out argument to claim that you're JUST speaking against Israel but you have nothing against Jews. Israel is a JEWISH state, you can't separate the two. Of course, not all people who speak against Israel are downright anti-semitic, but there's also another interesting fact. Nowadays, it's not that cool to be anti-semitic. Not many people will agree with you if you (and I mean general "you" not talking about anyone in particular here) go around spreading a direct hateful message. So unlike other times when anti-semitism wasn't viewed in a negative light, today's anti-semites have to hide their ideas. And so they try to find other, more "PC" avenues to express their hatred. So they speak against "Israel", not against "Jews" when we know that the vast majority of people will pair the two together. So although not all of those who speak against israel are anti-semites, most if not all anti-semites will be outspoken against Israel. So you can't really blame a person for not knowing the true intentions when the lines are shady.

Sharon
My DH spent quite a bit of time in Israel before I knew him (he was in the conversion program for Orthodox judaism ... long story, but he ended up leaving the program, and is essentially agnostic at this point). At any rate... his time in Israel as something of a western outsider left him VERY clearly with this very sentiment that I bolded above.

Palestinian attacks against Israel are targeted at civilians, and they are constant and ongoing. Every once in a while, Israel says "enough" and responds - then they get blasted by everyone for protecting their citizens. If any country had constant attacks against civilians, they would do the same.

Palestinian civilians do get injured/killed in retaliatory attacks by Israel, but in very very large part due to the fact that Hamas intentionally embeds themselves in residential areas, people's homes, etc. These are not soldiers fighting with each other, but renegade militia living in and among civilians - there is no way to go looking for them, without by necessity going through residential areas (as happened in the Gaza Strip recently.)

I would never ever wish for a child anywhere - or people of any age - to suffer due to conflict. But if Hamas cared so much for the Palestinian people as they do to the cause, they wouldn't use people's homes and families as human shields.

Having said all that, yes, I'd be interested in seeing this movie ... though I wouldnt' likely let DH watch it, he would get too angry
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  #10  
January 13th, 2010, 06:57 AM
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As Golda Meir(Female PM in 1969 - pretty impressive for womans rights) said "We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us"
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