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Women's rights go too far


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  #1  
November 29th, 2009, 09:58 AM
(.Y.)mom2dd(.Y.)
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When women are fighting for equality, many people think it's more rights than men while others feel there is not equality on genders. Where do you fit on that scale?
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  #2  
November 29th, 2009, 10:10 AM
KimberlyD0
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I don't think men or women should have more rights. I believe in Equality.
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  #3  
November 29th, 2009, 10:33 AM
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I believe in equality, and I think in some areas, we really need to be pushing to get men's rights equal to women's, primarily when it comes to family issues (paternity leave, equal rights in custody cases, etc.).
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  #4  
November 29th, 2009, 10:47 AM
diet_a&w's Avatar Susan
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I believe in equality in the sexes but I guess I have to say that there are things that should not be equal and I'm okay with that. Pay? That should 100% be equal. I think there are things like the draft that I do not support in equality. I think that women should be allowed to join armed forces but I do not think that if a draft were to be called, that they should fight (I know I couldn't). In those respects, men on the whole are stronger and women on the whole are more nurturers.

I am a college educated woman and I believe strongly in equality for women but I don't know, I guess that's where I stand on the issue.
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  #5  
November 29th, 2009, 10:53 AM
irishxrose
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Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
I believe in equality, and I think in some areas, we really need to be pushing to get men's rights equal to women's, primarily when it comes to family issues (paternity leave, equal rights in custody cases, etc.).
Agreed. Family-friendly policies are very important and yet are sorely lacking, especially in certain male-dominated professions (hm law enforcement comes to mind). That is detrimental not only to women but to men as well, and ultimately their families. Custody cases are often very one-sided and favor the woman, which in some cases is good but in other cases... the father should have been granted custody, but the mother was simply because she was the mom.

I am for equality - for all genders.
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  #6  
November 29th, 2009, 10:59 AM
SweetSimpleThings's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think there are areas in which men's rights are lacking when compared to women (as in some of the previously mentioned posts - paternity leave, custody rights, etc.) and I think there are many areas in which women's equality is still very much lacking (pay, etc. - in my industry, there is still a wide gap between men and women in what is paid if you look at national rates of pay).

It's unfortunate that the pull and tug on this has created a situation in which some people think that "feminism" is a bad word or that a younger generation of women wouldn't call themselves by that name. To me, feminism is nothing more than the assumption that women and men deserve equal treatment, respect, etc. and that women are as valuable in their contribution to the world as men. I think someone can be a high-powered executive and not be a feminist, but someone else can be a stay-at-home mom and be a feminist. It's not about "being a man" but about having equal options open to CHOOSE from.
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  #7  
November 29th, 2009, 11:12 AM
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While I believe in equality (equal pay for equal work, etc), I also believe that there are fundamental differences in men and women that just cannot be ignored, and shouldn't be. For example, can women be great firefighters? Certainly. Can ALL women be great firefighters? No. There should not be separate physical standards for men and women, because women are physiologically smaller in stature. There should be one set of standards for safely performing the required duties, and ALL applicants should have to meet these standards, regardless of gender.

I also agree with a previous post regarding a military draft. Mothers and Fathers are BOTH important in a child's life, but I personally believe that the loss of a Mother to a war (especially when the mother doesn't want to go), will impact a child more than the loss of a father. I'm sure some (or even many) will disagree, but I think that a Mother's impact on her children simply can't be overstated.
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  #8  
November 29th, 2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Christina A~ View Post
I think there are areas in which men's rights are lacking when compared to women (as in some of the previously mentioned posts - paternity leave, custody rights, etc.) and I think there are many areas in which women's equality is still very much lacking (pay, etc. - in my industry, there is still a wide gap between men and women in what is paid if you look at national rates of pay).

It's unfortunate that the pull and tug on this has created a situation in which some people think that "feminism" is a bad word or that a younger generation of women wouldn't call themselves by that name. To me, feminism is nothing more than the assumption that women and men deserve equal treatment, respect, etc. and that women are as valuable in their contribution to the world as men. I think someone can be a high-powered executive and not be a feminist, but someone else can be a stay-at-home mom and be a feminist. It's not about "being a man" but about having equal options open to CHOOSE from.
I'm gonna hijack for a second... I got denied my annual pay increase when I was pregnant. I can't prove it, but I think they were trying to push me out the door before my maternity leave started (I received a verbal warning for speaking with the copy desk about an inaccurate headline--this apparently showed an attitude problem). They said my raise was contingent on me writing an investigative series that conveniently ended a couple of weeks before my maternity leave started. I was considered "on probation." I had a review after and I was told the series was good, but I was still on probation because the managing editor sensed I was reluctant to call a detective and ask him how investigating a decapitation affected him emotionally (to his credit, the detective did not laugh at me). After that conversation, I just asked my OB to write a letter requesting I start my maternity leave early.

We were in the middle of a budget crisis when this happened, and instead of laying off a reporter, I think they started putting pressure on the hugely pregnant reporter to just leave. Either that or they were trying to set up a paper trail to fire me so they wouldn't have to pay my insurance while I was on leave and their rate wouldn't go up after covering a birth.

Anyway, I'm still kinda bitter. LOL.
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  #9  
November 29th, 2009, 11:49 AM
Wolfmama09's Avatar " He's a marshmallow!"
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I believe in equality but like Jess said, I push for more paternal rights.
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  #10  
November 29th, 2009, 11:59 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
I believe in equality, and I think in some areas, we really need to be pushing to get men's rights equal to women's, primarily when it comes to family issues (paternity leave, equal rights in custody cases, etc.).
I agree with this 100%! There are areas where men are lacking in rights. Men never seem to be considered equal when it comes to family issues such as custody cases.
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  #11  
November 29th, 2009, 12:44 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess is Write View Post
I'm gonna hijack for a second... I got denied my annual pay increase when I was pregnant. I can't prove it, but I think they were trying to push me out the door before my maternity leave started (I received a verbal warning for speaking with the copy desk about an inaccurate headline--this apparently showed an attitude problem). They said my raise was contingent on me writing an investigative series that conveniently ended a couple of weeks before my maternity leave started. I was considered "on probation." I had a review after and I was told the series was good, but I was still on probation because the managing editor sensed I was reluctant to call a detective and ask him how investigating a decapitation affected him emotionally (to his credit, the detective did not laugh at me). After that conversation, I just asked my OB to write a letter requesting I start my maternity leave early.

We were in the middle of a budget crisis when this happened, and instead of laying off a reporter, I think they started putting pressure on the hugely pregnant reporter to just leave. Either that or they were trying to set up a paper trail to fire me so they wouldn't have to pay my insurance while I was on leave and their rate wouldn't go up after covering a birth.

Anyway, I'm still kinda bitter. LOL.
That's awful! Boo to them!

ITA with Christina, btw.
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  #12  
November 29th, 2009, 12:57 PM
KimberlyD0
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Originally Posted by SusieQ2 View Post
I agree with this 100%! There are areas where men are lacking in rights. Men never seem to be considered equal when it comes to family issues such as custody cases.

Or child support for that matter

They're expected to pay, no matter what, and yet when THEY are the primary care provider often they get no child support.

Cause thats fair

Men always get the short end of the stick it seems.
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  #13  
November 29th, 2009, 01:33 PM
IAmMomMomIAm
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I could pretty much parrot what everyone else said, about father's rights mostly, except one thing:

If women are pushing to be considered equal to men, then they'd have to deal with the consequences. Men get drafted. If we want to be equal with men, then we need to accept the idea that that means "earning" things we don't actually want. If we want to be 100% equal, we have to take the good with the bad. Just my
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  #14  
November 29th, 2009, 02:20 PM
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i disagree about the draft. For the most part women ARE the main caretakers of children. We birth them, some of us feed them from our breasts, there are more SAHM's than SAHD's, ect... it wouldn't be feasible for the family home dynamic to have women drafted. Not to mention it would be a logistical nightmare to ensure that both parents aren't drafted at the same time.
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  #15  
November 29th, 2009, 02:26 PM
diet_a&w's Avatar Susan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frgsonmysox View Post
i disagree about the draft. For the most part women ARE the main caretakers of children. We birth them, some of us feed them from our breasts, there are more SAHM's than SAHD's, ect... it wouldn't be feasible for the family home dynamic to have women drafted. Not to mention it would be a logistical nightmare to ensure that both parents aren't drafted at the same time.
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  #16  
November 29th, 2009, 02:30 PM
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There are certain jobs in the military that women can't have. At first I didn't agree but knowing what I do now I do agree. It isn't a sexist thing. Women and men are not built the same and in some situations this is detrimental to the woman.
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  #17  
November 29th, 2009, 02:33 PM
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One of the reasons I'm thankful for our servicemen and women is because they eliminate the need for a draft.
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  #18  
November 29th, 2009, 02:35 PM
foxfire_ga79
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Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
Or child support for that matter

They're expected to pay, no matter what, and yet when THEY are the primary care provider often they get no child support.

Cause thats fair

Men always get the short end of the stick it seems.

I dated a guy who had custody of his daughter and his ex wife payed a lot in child support. They base it on each parent's income compared to how much time they spend with the kids. In this case he had primary custody and the mother got every other weekend and a few weeks of summer. She paid child support to him.
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  #19  
November 29th, 2009, 05:01 PM
TheOtherMichelle's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I also know a father who has primary custody and gets child support from his ex. I don't know if it is the norm but it certainly seems more unusual for the mom not to have primary custody.

For those against the draft for women, would you feel differently about it if women with children were exempt?
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  #20  
November 29th, 2009, 08:26 PM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherMichelle View Post
I also know a father who has primary custody and gets child support from his ex. I don't know if it is the norm but it certainly seems more unusual for the mom not to have primary custody.

For those against the draft for women, would you feel differently about it if women with children were exempt?

No. Women and men are just not built equally. You can't demand to be perfectly equal in all aspects of life - we just aren't. Men can't get pregnant, breastfeed, their pain tolerance is a lot lower, they are more prone to aggression, ect.... Many jobs in the military are not even open to women because physically we are just not equal. A man can physically carry more weight, and exert himself in ways a woman cannot. They ARE biologically and psychologically more suited to the rigors of war.
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