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  #1  
June 25th, 2006, 02:21 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Okay - I know being a single young mom has challenges. I get that completely. I have watched it in other people's lives....

I am just annoyed that I worked very very hard to try & get through college...while friends that had babies out of wedlock had it all paid for & child care to boot. I also every year on my measly litle salary got back a couple hundred bucks that I had overpaid in taxes each year. Instead - my single friends that were moms got back WAY more than they were paying in - as earned income credits....when most of them were struggling less than I was.

Is it really okay to give people extra perks for making choices in their lives that put obsticles in their own way?

It wasn't an accident I didn't get pregnant & literally for some of my friends it wasn't an accident they had a baby at 18...does that really mean they should get college for free while I worked at minimum 1 full time job & sometimes an extra part-time job & had to ocassionally take entire semesters off to save money to try again next term? Am I petty to find it annoying?

I just think it seems inequitable for our governement to only invest in educations of those that they see as "disadvantaged" on paper. Most inmates have access to college education. I think that is good - but why give it to them & not to hard working people that are struggling to make ends meet & perhaps drop out because it gets too difficult (like me). At some point I realized I was making as much if not more than my college graduate friends & gave up on the struggle. Now I make great money, that may not always be the case & it will forever bother me that I didn't get my full degree....I will go back one day when I can afford to - but who knows when that will be? Plus if others busted tail like I have in their jobs to get where I am - they could make better money as well - it doesn't mean that I am okay without the degree - just think where I might be with it?

I am not saying cut all assistance programs - but I am saying - make it make some sense. I want single moms & inmates to get college degrees - I want hard working, law abiding, single, childless people to get them too. And of all the social programs out there - I think the concept of EVER giving anyone back MORE money than they have paid into taxes to be completely ludicrous. If there is an excess after the governemnt has taken their portion, it should go back to all people - I can see some people not paying in anything at the end of the year because they don't make enough money - but it's not supposed to be the lottery.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #3  
June 25th, 2006, 05:16 AM
syncere
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Posts: n/a
I think its alright in some cases for them to get a free ride to college.. Im not saying that people without children dont deserve the same break but, they dont have a child to pay for.. Im also not saying that in your situation that you didnt deserve some assistance as well but, finanical aid is out there for ALL people not just single parents.. If you make to much to qualify for financial aid that really does stink but, they think that if you are making more than enough to qualify for that you shouldnt need it(which isnt always the case I know).. My brother went to college and worked a part time job and hardly got any financial aid and he had loans out the wazoo that he was repaying for almost 5 years once he got out of college.. There are always options whether or not you have to repay the money you still can get some type of help for the time being.. I was a single parent for a while and I worked my butt off just to support myself and my son and you better believe if I had chosen to go back to school then that I would have applied for EVERY type of help available..
On to the taxes.. I dont think its crazy to give them back more than they paid in.. Say you make 80k a year and you hardly get any money back if you budget your money correctly chances are you werent hurting for money throughout the year.. But say someone who makes 10k a year and has 2 children receives a 5k tax check in my eyes Im all for it.. that gives them a chance to get some things that they couldnt afford throughout the year like clothes for their children, a car to be able to get to and from a job without constant car problems.. be able to put some money up in case of emergency throughout the year until the next tax time.. Again if you were on the other side being one of those who only makes a small amount of money per year and you were able to receive that extra money Im sure you would be all for it and understand.

Quote:
Is it really okay to give people extra perks for making choices in their lives that put obsticles in their own way?[/b]
Its not really fair to say that they put the obsticles in their own way.. Its not always by choice that things happen you have to keep that in mind.. I agree that some get pregnant on purpose and then end up milking the systems for something but, that isnt the case for all..
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  #4  
June 25th, 2006, 05:46 AM
lea27's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 104
I think it's a good idea.

Why wouldn't anyone want single mothers to become more self sufficient? With a degree they certainly can be. People complain about women being on assistance and they complain about them trying to better their lives for themselves and their children.

Single moms just can't win.
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  #5  
June 25th, 2006, 05:59 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Quote:
Is it really okay to give people extra perks for making choices in their lives that put obsticles in their own way?[/b]
I can see it now...

Application for Financial Aid:

Marital Status:
Reason for Martial Status:
Number of children:
Reason for number of children:

Any other information you would like to give in your defense:

We'll get back to you if we deem you made a good choice.


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  #6  
June 25th, 2006, 06:19 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,780
Quote:
I think it's a good idea.

Why wouldn't anyone want single mothers to become more self sufficient? With a degree they certainly can be. People complain about women being on assistance and they complain about them trying to better their lives for themselves and their children.

Single moms just can't win.[/b]

I agree.

I also don't see how it is "easier" for single moms to go to college. Everyone I know who is a single mom, it took them two or three times as long to go to college as it would have taken a single person, and they are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Never heard of anyone who actually USED the free daycare either. Supposedly, it exists. But they never have any spots open.

People don't necessarily become single parents as a result of some bad choice they made. Some things DO happen that are not within a person's ability to control. Marriages end. Etc.
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  #7  
June 25th, 2006, 08:44 AM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,966
Quote:
Quote:
I think it's a good idea.

Why wouldn't anyone want single mothers to become more self sufficient? With a degree they certainly can be. People complain about women being on assistance and they complain about them trying to better their lives for themselves and their children.

Single moms just can't win.[/b]

I agree.

I also don't see how it is "easier" for single moms to go to college. Everyone I know who is a single mom, it took them two or three times as long to go to college as it would have taken a single person, and they are in debt up to their eyeballs.

Never heard of anyone who actually USED the free daycare either. Supposedly, it exists. But they never have any spots open.

People don't necessarily become single parents as a result of some bad choice they made. Some things DO happen that are not within a person's ability to control. Marriages end. Etc.
[/b]
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  #8  
June 25th, 2006, 08:55 AM
Ashes78
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree that becoming a single mom isn't always a choice. I wasn't married and I was on depo when I got pregnant with my first. Depo is supposed to be 99.7% effective. Well, I just happened to be one of the lucky .3%

Not only single moms can get grants for college and daycare, at least here in TX. It goes by income. If someone is married and their income falls below a certain amount, they can get a grant for college and day care.
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  #9  
June 25th, 2006, 08:59 AM
LilMama0107
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
I think it's a good idea.

Why wouldn't anyone want single mothers to become more self sufficient? With a degree they certainly can be. People complain about women being on assistance and they complain about them trying to better their lives for themselves and their children.

Single moms just can't win.[/b]

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  #10  
June 25th, 2006, 09:08 AM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,966
Quote:
I agree that becoming a single mom isn't always a choice. I wasn't married and I was on depo when I got pregnant with my first. Depo is supposed to be 99.7% effective. Well, I just happened to be one of the lucky .3%

Not only single moms can get grants for college and daycare, at least here in TX. It goes by income. If someone is married and their income falls below a certain amount, they can get a grant for college and day care.[/b]

Wow you got pregnant on the depo shot. Not to many of those. It took me 16 months to get pregnant post depo.
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  #11  
June 25th, 2006, 09:25 AM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
I get that people thjink all kids parents help with tuition - they don't. Mine didn't & I was stuck using THEIR income as my basis for assistance until I was 23. How is it fair that there is an assumption AFTER you are legally an adult & don't live at home, that your parents are obligated to help you pay for college unless you are married, have a baby, or are in the military?

I had no help from ANY outside source & my parents credit (thaks to helping too many other of my siblings) was TAXED - and they could not & would not co-sign on my student loans - do you REALLY know how hard it is to get a student loan in those conditions?

You can tell me all you want about how hard it is to be a single mom - but I am telling you - the friends I went to college with that were single moms understood what I was saying far better than most of you seem to. When I was eating Raman Noodles 3 times a day & working until 5pm to run to try to make 6pm classes & picking up double shifts over the weekends, they were not working (most of them) and enjoying time with their kids...doing things, having a life & telling me what a rough deal I had - so unless you been on this side of it too I don't how you can criticize me & say the system is okay. I remember one time coming home from work & crying because on my part-time 2nd job I finally had gotten a small raise & they announced that corporate had decided we all had to wear white shirts & khaki pants...and I knew I couldn't do it. I couldn't afford the new clothes & I didn't have any time to change between my 2 jobs & I was panicked at how I was going to find new employment that fast that was willing to work around my first job and my class schedule. In the end - I didn't...I left the following semester.

I am not looking for anyone's sympathy. I only tell you this becasue I think people have some misconstrued
idea that everyone who needs financial aid gets it & it is simply untrue.

BTW - yes I do think that if you are 23 - as I was speaking of & you get married, join the service or have a baby - you are putting your OWN obsticles in your way to getting a college education. A choice isn't necessarily bad or good - it is simply that..a choice. Everyone has a right to make their choices - but if htat leads to all kinds of had=outs - what is hte point he saying "now that you've ade your bed go lie in it"? DO we not believe that all people in need of an education deserve one - or is it simply that I dared to say that single moms shouldn't be rewarded always for making choices that work against them receiving education? Everyone knows that those things will NOT make it easier for you to complete it...no matter how good your intentions are. I also believe that even with contraception you know you could get pg - it's not like you accidentally had sex. Somehow it has ALWAYS felt to me that I was punished for trying to make choices that should have been able to aid in my ability to get through college (no kids, no marriage, etc) and instead the gov't economically punished me by saying I was still part of my "parent's household." I paid my own taxes, had my own place, and hardly ever spoke to my parents even...we weren't on good terms. How is it the gov't's right to say that you are part of your parents until 23 & tough luck if they can't or won't pay for your school (which I still find confusing too because I grew up broke - how they made too much is beyond me).

And my friends did use the free daycare - my sister actually worked there for a while. Depending on the school - some are quite nice. The one here is nice & I never heard anyone complain of the waiting list....but there sure is on the regular day cares (for non-college related care) in this area.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #12  
June 25th, 2006, 09:40 AM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,496
Why didn't you utilize emancipation?

YOu could have also fought to be considered an independent:

Quote:
I would be considered a dependent student, but I have no contact with my parents. What do I do about reporting their income?

In unusual cases, an aid administrator can determine that a student who doesn't meet the above criteria should nevertheless be treated as an independent student. The financial aid administrator can change your dependency status from dependent to independent based on adequate documentation of any special circumstances you might have. You must provide this documentation. But, the aid administrator won't automatically change your status. That decision is based on the aid administrator's judgment and is final—you can't appeal that decision to us.[/b]
source

Oh, and my parents didn't pay a dime towards my education. Some of it I paid with loans through banks (youd be surprised how many great loan programs there are through various banks) or the school and some I paid by working during school. I paid for my entire masters by working. Not everyone thinks parents pay for college. (and, not all people of different race/ehtnicity get college scholarships or grants- but that was a different thread :-) ).

Not all poor kids get financial aid. Not all kids of race get financial aid. Not all single moms get financial aid. Not all kids living without their parents get financial aid. Some kids whose parents make 200k get financial aid. Some kids who have 4 siblings in college have trouble getting financial aid. I don't see why the target here has to be single moms.
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  #13  
June 25th, 2006, 12:01 PM
Ashes78
Guest
Posts: n/a
Quote:
I get that people thjink all kids parents help with tuition - they don't. Mine didn't & I was stuck using THEIR income as my basis for assistance until I was 23. How is it fair that there is an assumption AFTER you are legally an adult & don't live at home, that your parents are obligated to help you pay for college unless you are married, have a baby, or are in the military?

I had no help from ANY outside source & my parents credit (thaks to helping too many other of my siblings) was TAXED - and they could not & would not co-sign on my student loans - do you REALLY know how hard it is to get a student loan in those conditions?

You can tell me all you want about how hard it is to be a single mom - but I am telling you - the friends I went to college with that were single moms understood what I was saying far better than most of you seem to. When I was eating Raman Noodles 3 times a day & working until 5pm to run to try to make 6pm classes & picking up double shifts over the weekends, they were not working (most of them) and enjoying time with their kids...doing things, having a life & telling me what a rough deal I had - so unless you been on this side of it too I don't how you can criticize me & say the system is okay. I remember one time coming home from work & crying because on my part-time 2nd job I finally had gotten a small raise & they announced that corporate had decided we all had to wear white shirts & khaki pants...and I knew I couldn't do it. I couldn't afford the new clothes & I didn't have any time to change between my 2 jobs & I was panicked at how I was going to find new employment that fast that was willing to work around my first job and my class schedule. In the end - I didn't...I left the following semester.

I am not looking for anyone's sympathy. I only tell you this becasue I think people have some misconstrued
idea that everyone who needs financial aid gets it & it is simply untrue.

BTW - yes I do think that if you are 23 - as I was speaking of & you get married, join the service or have a baby - you are putting your OWN obsticles in your way to getting a college education. A choice isn't necessarily bad or good - it is simply that..a choice. Everyone has a right to make their choices - but if htat leads to all kinds of had=outs - what is hte point he saying "now that you've ade your bed go lie in it"? DO we not believe that all people in need of an education deserve one - or is it simply that I dared to say that single moms shouldn't be rewarded always for making choices that work against them receiving education? Everyone knows that those things will NOT make it easier for you to complete it...no matter how good your intentions are. I also believe that even with contraception you know you could get pg - it's not like you accidentally had sex. Somehow it has ALWAYS felt to me that I was punished for trying to make choices that should have been able to aid in my ability to get through college (no kids, no marriage, etc) and instead the gov't economically punished me by saying I was still part of my "parent's household." I paid my own taxes, had my own place, and hardly ever spoke to my parents even...we weren't on good terms. How is it the gov't's right to say that you are part of your parents until 23 & tough luck if they can't or won't pay for your school (which I still find confusing too because I grew up broke - how they made too much is beyond me).

And my friends did use the free daycare - my sister actually worked there for a while. Depending on the school - some are quite nice. The one here is nice & I never heard anyone complain of the waiting list....but there sure is on the regular day cares (for non-college related care) in this area.[/b]
I don't think that parents are obligated to pay for it. I will pay for it for my kids though. You can't just go around blaming all single moms because you had a hard time working and paying for college, etc. There isn't a "free" daycare here but you can get a grant that pays for whatever daycare you take your kid to. They will only pay so much.

How dare you say that by me getting pregnant while on birth control, that I put obstacles in my own way. What about women who are raped and becoming pregnant resulting in them being single moms? Are you going to say that is their fault? Are you going to say "Well, if you hadn't gone out that night you wouldn't have gotten raped. You did it to yourself."
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  #14  
June 25th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,657
As far as dependent, independent I hate that system. However there are ways to appell it. Also there are things YOU could have done to have it easier. WE have moved to three diffrent states because when we get residency it will be cheaper to live and go to school. If you really wanted to make it easier on your self you would have resurched, applied for scholarships or other things. Each person know matter there situation has to make sacrifises and there are several services to help everyone. However people would rather wine then help themselfs. Wether you choose to work all thoughs hours or spent those hours researching you got through school. when most poor people can't fatom going to school because it cost to much or they need to help there family. You should consiter yourself lucky to grow up in a place where education was high enough to enter college and it was a dream you could afford to have. No matter how hard college was for you YOUR LUCKY you could do it.
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  #15  
June 25th, 2006, 12:35 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
I am not meaning to whine here - I am asking why not help more people - make it more equitable so that all people that cannot afford education can have access? In Germany all people have free college if they make admission, etc.....

And I am not sure what the laws were regarding emancipation at that time. I did go to the financial aid offices repeatedly trying to get more assistance & find options. I don't see how at 18 I was supposed to be able to find what my options were (if they existed then - which I don't know if they did or not) without someone in that field helping me to become aware - KWIM? What type of research was I supposed to be doing. In the early 90's -the internet wasn't even as accessible or helpful as it is today...

All I am saying is why help particular groups - no one has even commented AT ALL on inmates getting a free college education.

Please read the entirety & look at the issue - don't just apply what you think is offensive it to your own life & get in a huff. I am not attacking single moms - I am questioning the system...and we all have a right to do that.


-----------------------------------
I am not lucky...you see I couldn't do it - that is my point....I am a determined intelligent person that has made a good life for myself & self educated as much as possible but I didn't have the physical, emotional or mental stamina to keep that many balls in the air. I just didn't. I wish I did. I wish I was more. I wish I was determined enough - or had the endurance - or had some loop hole I knew of to find my way to emancipation - but I didn't & at some point I just burned out. I am not whining. As I said - I have a good income today...I just don't think people should fall through the cracks like that & I think all those that can do the work shouldn't have to run themselves into the groud trying to get there because of these specific differences. I also acknowledge completely that finacial aid varies GREATLY from state to state & perhaps laws where others live are not the same laws & grants that exist here - or existed at that time for me ( I don't know if there have been any recent reforms). What I remember is working my tail off & feeling like I was getting no where & I could find no assistance. Like it or not - it was the what I experienced - and it has colored how I feel - we can all ONLY truly speak from our own experience & in my experience the system was messed up & I was turned down for every attempt I made for help. I got 1 scholarship for my ACT scores & that was $500/year -not really much help when you think of it. I am not sayig single moms & inmates don't need hte education - I am saying they aren't the only ones.
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #16  
June 25th, 2006, 12:49 PM
lea27's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 104
Quote:
I am not meaning to whine here - I am asking why not help more people - make it more equitable so that all people that cannot afford education can have access? In Germany all people have free college if they make admission, etc.....[/b]
As far as I know, financial aid is based on your income level not if you're a single mom or not. It just happens that single moms usually don't make as much as a two parent household. So I'm still not sure what the debate is about.
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  #17  
June 25th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Boxerlove1's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,299
Quote:
As far as I know, financial aid is based on your income level not if you're a single mom or not. It just happens that single moms usually don't make as much as a two parent household. So I'm still not sure what the debate is about.[/b]

You would be WRONG! If you are under 24, not in the military/married/have child, you are STILL a dependent as far as the government can see.
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  #18  
June 25th, 2006, 01:25 PM
kadydid
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I know that where I live a married couple who is in a low tax bracket can get funding for school. I knew a couple who only worked a few hours a week waiting tables because if they worked more they would lose their federally funded grants.

The middle class gets their butts kicked all the time when it comes to government assistance and what not. Many make too much to get any kind of assistance but struggle with trying to get ahead. It is not very fair, but the way our government is, I don’t see it changing any time soon. I think in California community colleges are free at least it used to be that way. I would love to see more states turn to that kind of program.


And as far as the single moms goes, I would prefer their college be paid for through the state instead of them being dependent on the system for the rest of their lives. Same with inmates, most of them are not getting college educations. But I would rather see them get an education than going out and committing more crimes because they don’t have any other options to turn to.

Sure it would be nice if the government could help everyone. But in our country that is just not realistic, even though I would love more social programs to help out the lower end of the middle class. So I do understand your frustration.
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  #19  
June 25th, 2006, 02:12 PM
lea27's Avatar Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 104
[quote]


My friend who is single unmarried whith no children recieved financial aid for several years. Although yes she is over 24.

You know...you can still get your point across without the use of capitals and exclamation marks.
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  #20  
June 25th, 2006, 02:18 PM
Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 10,865
I live in Canada, maybe its diffeent, Single or not we all get the same treatment, though we go by income.
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