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  #1  
June 27th, 2006, 05:41 PM
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Location: Overland Park, Kansas
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Dh and I were watching CNN or something like that last night and they were talking about how the gov't is trying to pass a law making it illegal to desecrate the american flag. Do you agree with this? Is this taking away "freedom of speech"??


I think it's absolutely distasteful to burn the flag. There are better forms of protest if you are unhappy with something...it makes you look childish and immature when you burn it among other things.
Now on t.v. there was also a documentary thingy on the KKK and freedom of speech. They were protesting about their beliefs and it was held publicly. They had armed officers surrounding them for THEIR protection~~~yet what were they talking about? Killing this race and that race for this reason...blah blah blah....so it's ok to talk about killing someone but it's not ok to burn the amer. flag? Ick, I don't agree with either.

But should it be illegal? I think there are more important things the gov't needs to worry about than a few flags being burnt. I think they are raising a stink over nothing. And if it IS passed, it's only going to cause a lot of hatred and there will be more flag burnings as a sign of protesting against making it illegal to burn them kwim??

Difficult....I don't want to see the flag burned...I think it's VERY distasteful and tacky...but I'm not sure if it should be illegal either. I dunno....what are your thoughts?
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  #3  
June 27th, 2006, 05:57 PM
Chunky Monkey's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I honestly agree with it making it illegal. That flag is a symbol of our nation. If someone has enough disrespect to burn the flag, then they can move to another country. I hear Cuba is losing their population...let them go live in dictatorship for a while, maybe they will understand just how good they have it here, where they need to respect the flag.
My family is very patriotic, I have lots of family in the military defending everyone's freedom.
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  #4  
June 27th, 2006, 05:59 PM
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If you agree with making it illegal...what do you think the punishment should be?
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  #5  
June 27th, 2006, 06:16 PM
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Where I grew up, in Colon, Panama, flag burning was always a huge issue. We mourn on Martyrs' Day to remember the desecration of the Panama flag during a squirmish between US citizens and some Panamanian students about our flag being flown next to the American flag.

I never view the event as a time to mourn "the flag" but, rather, the 20 or so Panamanians and 4 US soldiers who died in the riot that followed.

Even having been told this story countless times and having seen where it happened, I still am hesitant to say that burning a flag should be illegal.

People in the states are more likely to use their vote and other democratic means to solve problems (not all the time, but far more likely than they are in Panama). I would like to say that the USA doesn't NEED to ban flag burning because it can be used as "political speech" and not a means to incite a riot.

I dunno...I htink I need to think on this one a little more...

Edit: my husband pointed out to me that the action of burning the flag did ultimately end up in the treaty that turned the canal zone over to Panama. So, in a way, it was a political means to an end....but a bloody one...
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  #6  
June 27th, 2006, 07:11 PM
crunchymama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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i DUNNO IF IT SHOULD BE ILLEGAL BUT i AGREE IT IS VERY DISTASTFUL AND WHEN I SEE PEOPLE DOING IT i NO LONGER CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THEY HAVE TO SAY.

Opps sorry for the caps.
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  #7  
June 27th, 2006, 07:40 PM
kadydid
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I think the dissident voice is an important one. In the words of my hubby, it keeps the country honest. I don’t think you can force people into respecting our symbols. Our country is great that way you can hate everything about our country and be free to do so. Passing this would almost be un-American. It is a peaceful protest that should always be protected. Plus I think they can think of a thousand more important things to vote on other than flag burning.

And BTW I think you can be a patriot and still burn the flag in disgust over your government. I wouldn’t do it, but I don’t think most people who do it, do it to be #####clowns. I think there is a deep reason behind it. It's a very powerful statement. It might piss you off but it will definitely make you take notice. JMO
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  #8  
June 27th, 2006, 07:43 PM
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I read an article that had an interesting POV on this.

The correct way to dispose of a flag is to burn it (apparently some organizations burn many flags a year- like Boy Scouts).

So, if you maintain this disposal method yet outlaw burning in other situations, you are really outlawing the "state of mind" when the flag is burned.
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  #9  
June 27th, 2006, 07:54 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
I read an article that had an interesting POV on this.

The correct way to dispose of a flag is to burn it (apparently some organizations burn many flags a year- like Boy Scouts).

So, if you maintain this disposal method yet outlaw burning in other situations, you are really outlawing the "state of mind" when the flag is burned.[/b]
Ohhhh I read about that too. But I never thought of it that way, and that is just gross!! Super!! mind control! That is American??
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  #10  
June 27th, 2006, 08:23 PM
friskycat01's Avatar Super Mommy
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At first I thought this was about making the flag illegal. Now that would be crazy.

Don't they already have laws about that? i heard of one guy who got a ticket because he flew the American flag below another flag. I thought that was insane. I would have to know exactly what the law stated before I could make an opinion. I agree it is disrepectful to burn the flag or rip it but i don't know if it should be illegal.

I don't think there should be laws on how you hang the flag. that is ridiculous
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  #11  
June 27th, 2006, 08:27 PM
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Nope, don't think you should be allowed to burn them. If you aren't happy with our country, leave. That flag stands for all that we are, and you shouldn't disrespect it.

I was searching online for 'why' we burn the flag out of respect at the end of it's use--and wound up finding this which answers the original question of the post:

Quote:
Burn that flag...

just ask permission...

Written by Tom Adkins
(7/1/98)

What do we do about people who want to burn the American flag? You know...those folks who want to stomp all over it, or spit on it to make some sort of "statement." Some say the first Amendment gives us the right to desecrate the American flag. Others want to make it illegal. This is a tough one. What should we do? I can solve this one easily. I believe we should have a simple requirement. Let flag desecration be legal, but you have to have three sponsors who will give you written permission. Those sponsors should be from a panel of experts who might be considered "qualified" to give such permission.

First, you need a signature of a war veteran. How about a Marine who fought at Iwo Jima?

The men who raised that flag over Iwo Jima did so on the bodies of thousands of dead Americans, who gave their lives so a few could raise the flag in defiant claim of that last island in a long, bloody march to defeat the Japanese. What did those Marines think about the flag as they watched their comrades get slaughtered? Every battle with the Japanese was horrific. Each day meant half of everyone you knew would be dead tomorrow. Your own future was a coin flip away from a bloody death in a place your family couldn't pronounce. Or you could ask a Vietnam vet who spent years in a POW prison, tortured in small, filthy cells unfit for a dog. Or Korean War soldiers who rescued half a nation from communism, or the Desert Storm warriors who repulsed a bloody dictator from raping and pillaging an innocent country, to find people from a foreign land kiss our flag as we drove through their streets.

To every American soldier who ever fought for the United States, that flag represented your mother and father, your sister and brother, your friends, neighbors, your fellow countrymen...In fact it stands for your freedom, guaranteed by your nation. Those who fought, fought for that flag.
Those who died, died for that flag. I wonder what they would say if someone asked their permission to burn a flag?

Next, you need a signature of an immigrant. Preferably one who left their family behind. Their brothers and sisters languish in their native land, often subject to tyranny, poverty and failure, while America offers freedom and prosperity.

Some have seen friends and family be tortured and murdered by their own government for daring to do many things we take for granted every day. Many give their lives in the struggle just to touch our shores, even as America turns its back and returns them to face persecution once again in their native land. For those who risked everything simply for the chance to become an American...what kind of feelings do they have for the flag when they pledge allegiance to it for the first time? Go to a naturalization ceremony and see for yourself, the tears of pride, the thanks, the love and respect of this nation, as they finally embrace the flag of our nation as their own. Then, walk up and ask one of them if it would be OK to spit on the flag.

Last, you need a signature from someone living in a foreign land who cannot get here. Say, Rwanda. Or maybe Bosnia. Maybe even Haiti. You might have to move fast, as they flee oppressors who attack them with machete's or shoot at them randomly in a marketplace. I'm sure they will never question your sanity as they duck for cover.

The writers of the Declaration of Independence are long gone. I wonder what they thought of the American flag as they drafted that document? They knew such an act would drag the nation into war with England, the greatest power on earth. Did the flag mean anything to them?

They knew failure of independence meant more than just a disappointment. It meant a noose would be snugly stretched around their necks. I wonder how they'd feel if someone asked their permission to toss the flag in a mud puddle?

In the absence of family, the absence of the precious shores of home, in the face of overwhelming odds and often in the face of death itself, the American flag inspires those who believe in the American dream, the American promise, the American vision...

Americans who don't appreciate the flag are usually those who don't appreciate this nation. And those who appreciate this nation appreciate the American flag.

So if you would, before you desecrate the American flag, before you spit on it, before you ignore it or despise it...please ask permission. Not from the constitution. Not from some obscure law. Not from the politicians or the pundits.

Please ask permission from those who founded the nation. Please ask those who defended our shores so that we may be free today. Please ask those who fought to reach our shores so that they may partake in the American dream.

And then, please ask permission from those who died wishing they could, just once ... or once again...see, touch or kiss the flag that stands for our nation, the United States of America...the greatest nation on earth.[/b]
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  #12  
June 27th, 2006, 08:32 PM
AbbyHannahsMom's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I agree.... I would be all for putting a ban on it. Maybe with a penatly of fines or something. I'm not sure I would put someone in jail for it.

Josie
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  #14  
June 27th, 2006, 08:49 PM
CBMS
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I think it should be banned. If people hate our country and what we stand for so much that they feel the need to burn our flag, then I think they should get the hell out. Why would you want to be here when you hate it so much? They should go to a third world country and hang out for a few years... maybe get a new understanding of how good they had it--if they don't starve to death first.
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  #15  
June 27th, 2006, 09:00 PM
AbbyHannahsMom's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
I don't think it should be illegal. I think it is a disrespectful and rude thing to do but I also believe it is part of our rights. It seems to me that slowly are rights are being taken away, little by little. I don't think any american should be burning our countries flag, but isn't freedom of choice and speech and protest what sets us apart from most countries? To me making it illegal sounds like something a dictator country would do, not america.[/b]

Maybe if people didnt abuse their rights like they do.. there wouldnt be a problem.
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  #16  
June 27th, 2006, 09:16 PM
kadydid
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I don't think they protest by burning the flag because they hate our country. I think they protest things like immoral wars and actions of our government.

And personally I think the mentality of if they want to burn a flag they should get out of country a little tripe. It would be kind of like me saying those of you who support this ban, don't support our constitution the basis for our freedom and I deem you unworthy of living here because you do not love your country, because in my mind the constitution is our nations everything.

I personally would never burn a flag but I could never support this ban.
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  #17  
June 27th, 2006, 09:56 PM
CBMS
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Oh, I most assuredly believe in free speech--which is why I'm saying that people that desecrate the flag should get out.

I have the right to state my opinion--it's in the constitution.

Burning anything in protest is not a speech about anything. It's an action; it's a deplorable action at best. It goes beyond protesting or picketing PEACEFULLY. It's wrong, and demoralizing the flag of this great nation should be banned and prosecuted. That's just the way I feel about it. I have family members who defend that flag, and I think that it deserves--no, DEMANDS--respect. I truly think that if there is anyone in this country that hates it so much, that they should get out. Period.


ETA: the original constitution also discriminated against women and blacks. Perhaps if no one had done anything it would still be that way?? We are constantly adding new amendments to the constitution.
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  #18  
June 27th, 2006, 10:03 PM
AbbyHannahsMom's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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  #19  
June 27th, 2006, 10:22 PM
kadydid
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Quote:
Oh, I most assuredly believe in free speech--which is why I'm saying that people that desecrate the flag should get out.

I have the right to state my opinion--it's in the constitution.

Burning anything in protest is not a speech about anything. It's an action; it's a deplorable action at best. It goes beyond protesting or picketing PEACEFULLY. It's wrong, and demoralizing the flag of this great nation should be banned and prosecuted. That's just the way I feel about it. I have family members who defend that flag, and I think that it deserves--no, DEMANDS--respect. I truly think that if there is anyone in this country that hates it so much, that they should get out. Period.


ETA: the original constitution also discriminated against women and blacks. Perhaps if no one had done anything it would still be that way?? We are constantly adding new amendments to the constitution.[/b]
Great article..... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13487935/site/newsweek/
Quote:
Our understandable outrage at flag burning shouldn’t turn our brains to mush. “I feel the same sense of outrage, but I would not amend that great shield of democracy [the Constitution] to hammer a few miscreants,” Colin Powell said when the issue last came up (his position has not changed). “The flag will be flying proudly long after they have slunk away.” Powell argues that a constitutional ban on flag burning is a sign of weakness and fear. Note: The other countries that have banned flag burning include Cuba, China, Iran and Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

John Glenn, another of the thousands of combat veterans against the amendment (they have banded together in a group called Veterans Defending the Bill of Rights), notes that those 10 amendments we call the Bill of Rights have never been changed or altered by one iota, not by one word, not a single time in all of American history. There was not a single change during any of our foreign wars, and not during recessions or depressions or panics. Not a single change when we were going through times of great emotion and anger like the Vietnam era, when flag after flag was burned or desecrated. There is only one way to weaken our nation. The way to weaken our nation would be to erode the freedom that we all share.”[/b]
Quote:
The flag burning amendment is in a category by itself: the only argument for it is based on pure emotion. But ours is supposed to be a government of reason, not emotion, especially when it comes to the most precious repository of our rights. The American Constitution, the apogee of reason in the history of self-government, is real; the American flag, for all of its beauty and deep meaning, is symbolic. For more than 200 years, we’ve occasionally used the amendment process to expand rights. This would be the first time we would enshrine their restriction. Polluting the Constitution is far more dangerous than burning the flag.
[/b]



Quote:
ETA: the original constitution also discriminated against women and blacks. Perhaps if no one had done anything it would still be that way?? We are constantly adding new amendments to the constitution.[/b]

Just wanted to add, that those were changed to give those Americans freedom, not to take it away from them, and as I pointed out above the bill of rights have never been changed.
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  #20  
June 27th, 2006, 10:23 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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Quote:
Oh, I most assuredly believe in free speech--which is why I'm saying that people that desecrate the flag should get out.

I have the right to state my opinion--it's in the constitution.

Burning anything in protest is not a speech about anything. It's an action; it's a deplorable action at best. It goes beyond protesting or picketing PEACEFULLY. It's wrong, and demoralizing the flag of this great nation should be banned and prosecuted. That's just the way I feel about it. I have family members who defend that flag, and I think that it deserves--no, DEMANDS--respect. I truly think that if there is anyone in this country that hates it so much, that they should get out. Period.


ETA: the original constitution also discriminated against women and blacks. Perhaps if no one had done anything it would still be that way?? We are constantly adding new amendments to the constitution.[/b]


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