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  #1  
July 3rd, 2006, 12:52 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
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I have stated before that I am not Christian. I've never been informed too much about the Christian religion, so I have a question. Please don't knock me for using wrong terms/terminology either as I honestly don't know the right words to use!! It's an honest mistake, I'm not trying to offend anyone!!!

Pastors/Priests (I don't know who or which) aren't allowed to be married right? Or is it they aren't allowed to have sex? Who is it that isn't allowed to have sex? Are nuns not allowed to have sex? If so..why? Why aren't they allowed to have sex?

If they aren't allowed to have sex...should it be changed to where they should be allowed to have sex?
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  #2  
July 3rd, 2006, 12:58 PM
Boxerlove1's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Posts: 3,299
Can we add this question to the mix...

True or False - a preist can have sex BEFORE joining the preisthood - as in not being a virgin would not eliminate him from joining?
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  #3  
July 3rd, 2006, 01:05 PM
Momo's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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You know, these are good questions. I'm a Christian, not a Catholic so I have no idea.
Also, I have heard of married Priests....how are they exempt from this vow?
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  #4  
July 3rd, 2006, 01:31 PM
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I'm going out on a limb here, but here goes. I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Catholic priests are not allowed to marry or have sex after becoming a priest. I don't think they have to be "virgins" (how would the church prove they aren't). I don't know if Catholics accept men to the priesthood that are already married and/or have children. I have heard they will do that sometimes, but I'm not sure how the whole sex thing plays into that if they do. I think they have a separate class of clergy called "lay clergy" that can be married. Monks and nuns are not allowed to have sex or marry after taking holy orders--when they take holy orders I think that is considered "marriage" to the church--although I think what they did in their "past life" is not a big problem. I think the whole "no marriage/no sex" thing is to keep their minds focused on faith and God and on the church family rather than on a wife/husband and children. Up until a certain point in history (sometime in the Middle Ages), Catholic priests were allowed to have families, but monks and nuns have always been prohibited from marriage/sex. That being said, I may be wrong about some of the above, but that's the impression I am operating under. I apologize in advance for any further confusion I may have caused by transmitting this information.

I do know for certain that Protestant (Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Church of Christ, etc) clergy are allowed to marry and have families, although sex outside of marriage is of course discouraged.
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  #5  
July 3rd, 2006, 03:12 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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I am a Catholic and have to say Calicocat did a pretty good job of answering your question.
Priests, nuns and monks are not allowed to marry, part of the Sacrament is an vow of celibacy. There is no rule that you must be a virgin to take this oath, and yes, there are priests, nuns and monks who have ex-spouses and children.
The premise behind it not being allowed is that those who are called to serve in these positions are to devote their entire existance to the church and serving The Lord. They also take an vow of poverty, nothing and no one should come before God. The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.

I don't know if it should be changed, sometimes I think it should. But then, I say no, because someone who is called to and accepts this life knows of the sacrifices. If one is not prepared to sacrifice everything and devote their entire self, mind, body and soul to the church then they should seek a different path.
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  #6  
July 3rd, 2006, 03:17 PM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Posts: 717
Quote:
I am a Catholic and have to say Calicocat did a pretty good job of answering your question.
Priests, nuns and monks are not allowed to marry, part of the Sacrament is an vow of celibacy. There is no rule that you must be a virgin to take this oath, and yes, there are priests, nuns and monks who have ex-spouses and children.
The premise behind it not being allowed is that those who are called to serve in these positions are to devote their entire existance to the church and serving The Lord. They also take an vow of poverty, nothing and no one should come before God. The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.
[/b]
Soooo those of us who have sex are dirty? How is something so natural looked down upon?

Quote:
I don't know if it should be changed, sometimes I think it should. But then, I say no, because someone who is called to and accepts this life knows of the sacrifices. If one is not prepared to sacrifice everything and devote their entire self, mind, body and soul to the church then they should seek a different path.[/b]
Very true, they do willingly accept this, they don't go into it not knowing what they are doing.
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  #7  
July 4th, 2006, 01:36 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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No one is saying sex is dirty (alhtough the church did have a long history of accepting it only as a means to procreate). It is simply that being married is necessary in the faith to be in good standing AND have sex. being married is believed to be a distraction from one's duty to their congregation. It is common among other faiths with monks/nuns to also share the belief that sex inteferes with ones focus on spirituality. In fact is is also common in Buddhist beliefs that sexual desire is a distraction to inner peace. I think it is just more commonly understood or thought about in terms of Catholics. Nuns/Priests/Monks can all be married prior to their service or they can leave & become married. It isn't he scandal so many seem to think it is in that regard. You can change your mind & not be excommunicated. In fact my youth minister & his wife when growing up were a priest & a nun prior to getting married to eachother & after meeting decided their feelings for eachother interfered with their ability to continue in those roles. I think the main focus of not being married is that in marriage & family - their needs come befor eyour own (or htey are suppsoed to) and the church believes you can't do both well I guess. I don't necessarily agree. I think you should have an order for both married & unmaried - should one choose a celibate life. I also think if I remember right that not all lay people CAN be married. For instance. A permanent deacon can be married if he is married prior to taking the vow as permanent deacon, but cannot get married if he is already a permanent deacon while single. I am sure that at least was right as of fairly recently - because that one always boggled me.
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  #8  
July 4th, 2006, 03:38 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Quote:
No one is saying sex is dirty (alhtough the church did have a long history of accepting it only as a means to procreate). It is simply that being married is necessary in the faith to be in good standing AND have sex. being married is believed to be a distraction from one's duty to their congregation. It is common among other faiths with monks/nuns to also share the belief that sex inteferes with ones focus on spirituality. In fact is is also common in Buddhist beliefs that sexual desire is a distraction to inner peace. I think it is just more commonly understood or thought about in terms of Catholics. Nuns/Priests/Monks can all be married prior to their service or they can leave & become married. It isn't he scandal so many seem to think it is in that regard. You can change your mind & not be excommunicated. In fact my youth minister & his wife when growing up were a priest & a nun prior to getting married to eachother & after meeting decided their feelings for eachother interfered with their ability to continue in those roles. I think the main focus of not being married is that in marriage & family - their needs come befor eyour own (or htey are suppsoed to) and the church believes you can't do both well I guess. I don't necessarily agree. I think you should have an order for both married & unmaried - should one choose a celibate life. I also think if I remember right that not all lay people CAN be married. For instance. A permanent deacon can be married if he is married prior to taking the vow as permanent deacon, but cannot get married if he is already a permanent deacon while single. I am sure that at least was right as of fairly recently - because that one always boggled me.[/b]
Ty for explaining.
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  #9  
July 4th, 2006, 03:45 PM
mrobinson
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I'm glad you brought this topic up. To be sex-free by choice is cool but I wonder if by denying a natural part of life, if that allows unrest or unhealthy desires? (Temptation from the devil, if you will?)

I've been working on trying to figure out a funny to ask about this whole marriage and sex thing.. I mean there is a point where the couple isn't as intimate as often or intimacy changes.. so why not have a married couple become a priest/nun after a certain point? Would they have to divorce? (I wonder why this kind of senerio hasn't happened?) I don't know I just I'd throw out something to wonder about.
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  #10  
July 4th, 2006, 08:16 PM
GirLStaR's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Ok I don't know if this is the reason the catholic church gives for priests not being able to marry, but this is in the Bible:
1 Corinthias 7:32 "I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs - how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world - how he can please his wife - and his interests are divided".

It says the same about an unmarried woman. I think this is mostly true, if you don't have a family of your own, you can dedicate your entire life to the church and God; when you have a family, you have to take care of your kids and wife/husband and it takes a lot of the time you could be dedicating to the church. I used to be catholic and I don't agree with a lot of the things they do, but this one I kind of agree with.
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  #11  
July 4th, 2006, 08:19 PM
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I actually don't agree with it. But I understand their POV and why they do it now.
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  #12  
July 5th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
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Quote:
Quote:
I am a Catholic and have to say Calicocat did a pretty good job of answering your question.
Priests, nuns and monks are not allowed to marry, part of the Sacrament is an vow of celibacy. There is no rule that you must be a virgin to take this oath, and yes, there are priests, nuns and monks who have ex-spouses and children.
The premise behind it not being allowed is that those who are called to serve in these positions are to devote their entire existance to the church and serving The Lord. They also take an vow of poverty, nothing and no one should come before God. The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.
[/b]
Soooo those of us who have sex are dirty? How is something so natural looked down upon?

[/b]


Is that seriously how you interpreted my explanation, or are you attempting to twist my words to admonish the Catholic faith and its practices?
No where did I say that sex is looked down upon by the Catholic religion.

I do not adhere to 100% of the Catholic beliefs (ie, I am pro choice, I support gay rights) but the customs and practices of any faith are questionable if misunderstood. Do not criticize that which you do not understand, and do not jump to conclusions either.
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  #13  
July 5th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 717
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I am a Catholic and have to say Calicocat did a pretty good job of answering your question.
Priests, nuns and monks are not allowed to marry, part of the Sacrament is an vow of celibacy. There is no rule that you must be a virgin to take this oath, and yes, there are priests, nuns and monks who have ex-spouses and children.
The premise behind it not being allowed is that those who are called to serve in these positions are to devote their entire existance to the church and serving The Lord. They also take an vow of poverty, nothing and no one should come before God. The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.
Soooo those of us who have sex are dirty? How is something so natural looked down upon?


Is that seriously how you interpreted my explanation, or are you attempting to twist my words to admonish the Catholic faith and its practices?
No where did I say that sex is looked down upon by the Catholic religion.

I do not adhere to 100% of the Catholic beliefs (ie, I am pro choice, I support gay rights) but the customs and practices of any faith are questionable if misunderstood. Do not criticize that which you do not understand, and do not jump to conclusions either.

Yes, that is how I interpreted it until Beck gave me her explanation. I understood better what YOU were trying to say after reading Becks response. And since you were misunderstood, I asked questions... In no way did I criticize anything by asking a question. If someone does not understand something the only way to find out exactly WHAT that person was trying to say is to ask again in a different way.

You said:
No where did I say that sex is looked down upon by the Catholic religion.
The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.
[/quote]

I MISINTERPRETED the meaning behind those words of "keeping the mind and body pure". It sounded to me like that meant that if you have sex you aren't pure. But, like I said, I read Becks explanation and I understood much better what it meant.

(P.S. I know I screwed up on the whole quoting thing here...I apologize lol)
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  #14  
July 5th, 2006, 12:37 AM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in my house
Posts: 7,374
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I am a Catholic and have to say Calicocat did a pretty good job of answering your question.
Priests, nuns and monks are not allowed to marry, part of the Sacrament is an vow of celibacy. There is no rule that you must be a virgin to take this oath, and yes, there are priests, nuns and monks who have ex-spouses and children.
The premise behind it not being allowed is that those who are called to serve in these positions are to devote their entire existance to the church and serving The Lord. They also take an vow of poverty, nothing and no one should come before God. The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.
Soooo those of us who have sex are dirty? How is something so natural looked down upon?


Is that seriously how you interpreted my explanation, or are you attempting to twist my words to admonish the Catholic faith and its practices?
No where did I say that sex is looked down upon by the Catholic religion.

I do not adhere to 100% of the Catholic beliefs (ie, I am pro choice, I support gay rights) but the customs and practices of any faith are questionable if misunderstood. Do not criticize that which you do not understand, and do not jump to conclusions either.

Yes, that is how I interpreted it until Beck gave me her explanation. I understood better what YOU were trying to say after reading Becks response. And since you were misunderstood, I asked questions... In no way did I criticize anything by asking a question. If someone does not understand something the only way to find out exactly WHAT that person was trying to say is to ask again in a different way.

You said:
No where did I say that sex is looked down upon by the Catholic religion.
The vow of celibacy is intended to keep the mind and the body pure.
I MISINTERPRETED the meaning behind those words of "keeping the mind and body pure". It sounded to me like that meant that if you have sex you aren't pure. But, like I said, I read Becks explanation and I understood much better what it meant.

(P.S. I know I screwed up on the whole quoting thing here...I apologize lol)
[/quote]
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  #15  
July 5th, 2006, 12:19 PM
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I think I can understand the church wanting them to not be married, as I can see how their time would then be divided. But, in light of all the "abuse" cases coming to light, I think allowing priests (and nuns) to marry might reduce if not eliminate completely this issue. I'm Catholic btw.
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