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  #1  
July 3rd, 2006, 08:19 PM
brittbratt's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Ok so when does lying actually count as a sin Is it any lie or major lies? I personally lie but not in a bad way its more or less a fib Let me give some examples:
1. My SIL wants to come up for a week before we move to Hawaii, I am really busy and dont feel like entertaining her, so I tell her that she cant come up because we have to stay in a hotel because we have to sell all our furniture and there just isnt room for everyone. (not true)
2. A friend calls and asks if I want to do this or that Friday, I say I cant because I am busy that day and have errands to run. (not true)
3. A creditor calls and asks when I am paying such and such and I say I sent payment even though I havent yet!

ok so there are many more examples, but am I terrible for telling these harmless lies or am I totally sinning? Does everyone do this or just me? I of course would never lie to someone if somebody could get hurt or offended, and I do not just go around making up lies, I know its a commandment!

Ok so the question is do you or dont you do this "type" of lie and do you think its a sin?

ETA: I meant to post this in the religous debate but oh well! sorry girls
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  #2  
July 3rd, 2006, 09:31 PM
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The problem with most lies is that usually someone finds out you are lying to them and gets their feelings hurt and/or doesn't trust you anymore. "Fibbing" about something subjective (i.e., open to opinion) to save someone's feelings is one thing ("Hey, your haircut is nice" when you think it looks crappy) is probably ok. But lying to your family and friends about bigger stuff is generally a bad idea.

If someone calls and wants to do something with you, why tell them an outright lie? You're getting ready to move--wouldn't it be just as easy to tell your SIL "Sorry, I'd love to, but we're busy packing and I just can't right now." The same for your friend--"Friday's not good for me." There's no need to lie when the truth will suffice.

Now as for being a sin, I guess the commandment is pretty clear--I can't really add anything there.
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  #3  
July 3rd, 2006, 09:39 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
I dont' knwo about sin - but I try very hard never to lie. I try to keep it simpler. Iw ould tell SIL that we will be too busy & although we'd love a visit, the timing is very bad for us & that isn't going to work out.

If a friend wants to me to go - I say thanks but not this time. Lets make some plans to do something soon though - I do want to see you.

And a creditor calls I say I will send a payment when I can & that isn't today. I haven't forgotten you are there - I just have no money to send (I have had to say this). If htey are too pushy I say good-bye.

I have outright denied I was pg - but that is because of my losses & not wanting to have to update everyone time I had an appointment & I hate the idea of people "waiting for me to mc again". But other than that kind of stuff that I don't know how to get around - I do my best not to. Even when asked if I am pg - I can usually deflect it by saying "Isn't that kind of a personal question??? and wouldn't I tell you if I wanted you to know..etc, etc" My all time lie avoider is.."Why do you ask?"
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We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #4  
July 4th, 2006, 12:51 AM
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If it will save the persons feelings I lie. I do what the OP does when it concerns family or friends. I don't want them to feel like I'm not "there" for them, when in reality I just can't handle them at that moment.
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  #5  
July 4th, 2006, 06:46 AM
brittbratt's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I guess the thing with me is I have a really hard time saying no to people
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  #6  
July 4th, 2006, 07:14 AM
Ashes78
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Quote:
Ok so when does lying actually count as a sin Is it any lie or major lies? I personally lie but not in a bad way its more or less a fib Let me give some examples:
1. My SIL wants to come up for a week before we move to Hawaii, I am really busy and dont feel like entertaining her, so I tell her that she cant come up because we have to stay in a hotel because we have to sell all our furniture and there just isnt room for everyone. (not true)
2. A friend calls and asks if I want to do this or that Friday, I say I cant because I am busy that day and have errands to run. (not true)
3. A creditor calls and asks when I am paying such and such and I say I sent payment even though I havent yet!

ok so there are many more examples, but am I terrible for telling these harmless lies or am I totally sinning? Does everyone do this or just me? I of course would never lie to someone if somebody could get hurt or offended, and I do not just go around making up lies, I know its a commandment!

Ok so the question is do you or dont you do this "type" of lie and do you think its a sin?

ETA: I meant to post this in the religous debate but oh well! sorry girls [/b]
I think everyone has told little lies like that. My dh lies all the time, telling me I look fine when I know I look like crap. I have a hard time telling people no too. I can't really comment on whether or not I think it's a sin because I don't believe in God. I would much rather tell a little lie than hurt someone's feeling though.
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  #7  
July 4th, 2006, 11:05 AM
mrobinson
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I guess the thing with me is I have a really hard time saying no to people [/b]
That I understand. I had to learn boundaries for myself. I can explain more if you'd like. (You can PM me too.)
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  #8  
July 4th, 2006, 11:07 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
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I know what you mean about not wanting to say no or disappoint someone, I used to be the same way. But after having things blow up in my face a few times I learned that there are worse things than being kindly honest to someone. Now creditors are one thing, but family is another. What if your SIL found out that you really weren't in a hotel? It seems pretty likely to me that someone else in the family might mention it, unless you've lied to everyone, and in that case it's pretty much a given that someone is going to find out. The family might be understanding about something like this, but it will reduce your credibility with them in the future. Plus, telling little lies all the time makes it easier to tell big ones about important things. Personally, I think it's just easier to tell the truth (in a kind way) in almost every situation.
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  #9  
July 4th, 2006, 11:44 AM
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I don't think anyone can sit here and say they don't tell white lies or that they have never told white lies. I try my best not to, but sometimes they will slip out. It's usually something very minor, like your examples listed above. I don't feel that just because you lie about something very small means you will lie about something big.
Amanda
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  #10  
July 4th, 2006, 12:53 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
I don't think anyone can sit here and say they don't tell white lies or that they have never told white lies. I try my best not to, but sometimes they will slip out. It's usually something very minor, like your examples listed above. I don't feel that just because you lie about something very small means you will lie about something big.
Amanda[/b]
I don't think anyone has said anything like that. I do think there is a difference between endeavoring to be fully honest & excusing "white lies" though. And I can say I do my best to never lie & if I feel too cornered by a question I just find a way not to answer their question. I have gone as far as saying "I don't want to answer that - or I think that is overly personal".

I think the biggest thing to free anyone from feeling the need to lie in order to save feelings is to love themselves enough to value that how YOU feel is as important as how anyone else feels - so if you feel over loaded or imposed upon - that is AS valid as the peron doing the imposing - so you have the RIGHT to say no... Secondly - the other freedom comes in understanding that others are not pining away hoping that we will fix everything in their life & if we say no, their world will fall apart...it won't. I promise.

I understand the desire to please people - but at some point you have to realize that you will not ever make everyone happy all the time. I value those I love in my life for who they are & if they will stop loving me because I can't be everything to everyone - then I guess they never loved me in the first place. I don't want people to love what I can do for them - I want them to love & value me for who I am. If they can't do that - I am not sorry if they keep their distance.

I do a lot for others when I have the time & ability to do so. I say yes more often than I say no. I just don't feel that my life is meant to be lived trying to keep everyone happy. It is meant for me to find what makes me peaceful and happy & pursue that & do what I can for others along the way. I have family over often, I help my gram out in her yard, I volunteer in my local community, but I never lie when I say no either - even if it simply becasue I have been travelling a lot for work & don't feel I have the energy to fill my weekend with family or whatever. Sometimes I just say "I'm not up to it - sorry". I also keep my answers simple. I have noticed often among others that they often give some lengthy answer as to why.... I jsut don't. Often "No" is plenty.

I think lying to cover those things is only hurting you. It puts you in a position where it seems you have convinced yourself that your personal truth isn't good enough to others & not even to yourself....because you don't value it enough to give it a voice. I endeavor not to lie to others becasue they don't have enough power in my life to make me feel the truth isn't good enough not because it is sinful, or becasue of what others may think if I get caught, or because I think I am too good to lie. I just think I am good enough on my own - that I feel okay with my answers - even when the answer is no. I have also been on the other side of silly "innocent" lies that hurt - even if it's just the friend that couldn't come over because her kid was sick...and then your sister runs into her at the bar out with other friends. Makes me wonder that she would trust me soooo very little to handle the truth that she couldn't just say she had plans...but instead felt "bad" I was invited & created a feeling of mistrust over a silly thing. I don't think it is that she doesn't trust me - I think she didn't want to feel bad - and it was over nothing - because I wouldn't have wanted to go that night anyway.

I just think it harms more often than it truly helps. And why cause others to ever question your character or honesty over something so simple?
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B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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  #11  
July 4th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Angelo, Texas
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Quote:
QUOTE(Northcutt2Be @ Jul 4 2006, 02:44 PM)

I don't think anyone can sit here and say they don't tell white lies or that they have never told white lies. I try my best not to, but sometimes they will slip out. It's usually something very minor, like your examples listed above. I don't feel that just because you lie about something very small means you will lie about something big.
Amanda



I don't think anyone has said anything like that.[/b]
I wasn't implying that anyone had said that. I was just saying that I'm sure everyone has told "white lies" before in their lives. I too try not to tell lies. The only lies I usually tell are the ones that are to keep someone from getting hurt (i.e. my sister asking me if I think she looks fat). No, I'm not going to come out and say "yeah you look terrible" so instead I say "well maybe you should try on a different shirt".
Amanda
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  #12  
July 4th, 2006, 01:56 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
The only lies I usually tell are the ones that are to keep someone from getting hurt (i.e. my sister asking me if I think she looks fat). No, I'm not going to come out and say "yeah you look terrible" so instead I say "well maybe you should try on a different shirt".
Amanda[/b]
My DH does the old dodge and duck on that one.. He'll say "my liver is imploding, I have to go" and then he'll leave! I then know there is no right way to answer that question I just asked him, so I chuckle. Sadly his point does hit it's intended mark.
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  #13  
July 4th, 2006, 02:18 PM
beck12's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 12,330
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Quote:
QUOTE(Northcutt2Be @ Jul 4 2006, 02:44 PM)

I don't think anyone can sit here and say they don't tell white lies or that they have never told white lies. I try my best not to, but sometimes they will slip out. It's usually something very minor, like your examples listed above. I don't feel that just because you lie about something very small means you will lie about something big.
Amanda



I don't think anyone has said anything like that.[/b]
I wasn't implying that anyone had said that. I was just saying that I'm sure everyone has told "white lies" before in their lives. I too try not to tell lies. The only lies I usually tell are the ones that are to keep someone from getting hurt (i.e. my sister asking me if I think she looks fat). No, I'm not going to come out and say "yeah you look terrible" so instead I say "well maybe you should try on a different shirt".
Amanda
[/b][/quote]
Amanda - that isn't lying though - that is exactly what I mean about avoiding a lie - you didn't tell her she looked great or skinny - you found a way around it.
__________________
B - Crazy momma to my two boys
We've begun to raise daughters more like sons... but few have the courage to raise our sons more like our daughters. ~Gloria Steinem

If a man has been his mother's undisputed darling he retains throughout life the triumphant feeling, the confidence in success, which not seldom brings actual success along with it. ~Sigmund Freud
My mom is a neverending song in my heart of comfort, happiness, and being. I may sometimes forget the words but I always remember the tune. ~Graycie Harmon
Don't wait to make your son a great man - make him a great boy. ~Author Unknown
You don't raise heroes, you raise sons. And if you treat them like sons, they'll turn out to be heroes, even if it's just in your own eyes. ~Walter M. Schirra, Sr.
A man loves his sweetheart the most, his wife the best, but his mother the longest. ~Irish Proverb
Mother's love is peace. It need not be acquired, it need not be deserved. ~Erich Fromm
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it. - Harold Hulbert
Mother is the name for God in the lips and hearts of little children. ~William Makepeace Thackeray
God could not be everywhere, so he created mothers. ~Jewish Proverb
The best conversations with mothers always take place in silence, when only the heart speaks. ~Carrie Latet




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