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  #1  
July 5th, 2006, 08:46 PM
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In a nutshell, this is what I understand about Xianity and salvation:

1. In the OT God asked for strange things, like unblemished animals for sacrifice.

2. Then, in the NT, Jesus came to earth as a baby, grew up, performed some miracles, then died on the cross.

3. His death was the final sacrifice. It was the shedding of his blood that gives all Christians an entrance into heaven.

So, my thought is, isn't it almost like a slap in the face to Jesus when a Christian has their newborn son circumcised because it's in the bible? Yes, it's in there, but it's commanded in the OT. According to Xiantiy, Jesus paid all sins in full, and basically took care of all sacrificial needs. If Jesus shed his blood for (general) you, that means your newborn doesn't have to. It just seems sort of insulting to me, kind of like, "Thanks for dying, Jesus, but I think I'll add a splash of my newborn's blood, too, just in case..."

Thoughts?

~Nay
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  #2  
July 6th, 2006, 06:12 AM
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That's all very true. I've never really thought about it that way.

I don't get on the circumcision board, so this topic probably has already been addressed. But up until about 150 years ago or so Christian men weren't circumcised at all. Then the Victorians came along with all their new progressive ideas about sex and hygiene, and the practice of Christians being circumcised started up then--as a health-related practice. That fact actually played into our decision NOT to circumcise our son. We are Christians, and live in a clean house with plenty of soap and running water so hygiene isn't really an issue, so there seemed to be no reason to cut our baby up (other than family pressure, which we shrugged off.)
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  #3  
July 6th, 2006, 09:54 AM
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Thanks for responding.


Anyone else want to put in their two cents?

~Nay
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  #4  
July 6th, 2006, 10:37 AM
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I don't think it's so much a Christianity thing as a cultural thing.
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  #5  
July 6th, 2006, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
I don't think it's so much a Christianity thing as a cultural thing.[/b]
So do you think it's okay for a Christian to chose culture over the sacrifice supposedly made by their Lord? Because that is exactly what they're doing when they chose to have their son circumcised.

~Nay
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  #6  
July 6th, 2006, 05:54 PM
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I agree with that. This is the battling point for DH and I. I think alot of people see that its required in the OT, but don't look in the NT, or ignore it. There is scriptures in the NT that talk about this - not sure off hand though, but more or less it said exactly what you stated in the OP.
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  #7  
July 6th, 2006, 06:01 PM
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Christians in other countries don't seem to think circumcision is necessary. Most hispanics do not circumcize, and many of them are from countries that have a Christian national religion. I definitely agree that, many times, it has got to be a cultural thing...
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  #8  
July 7th, 2006, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't think it's so much a Christianity thing as a cultural thing.[/b]
So do you think it's okay for a Christian to chose culture over the sacrifice supposedly made by their Lord? Because that is exactly what they're doing when they chose to have their son circumcised.

~Nay
[/b]
Well when you put the question that way, of course not. Christians should never follow the world just because it's the popular thing to do. However when people grow up with something defined as "normal" and "beneficial" and so on it's very hard to break those ideas with Biblical truth, even for Christians. Especially during the time when dr.s reccommended circumcision. They don't anymore but for a long time they did.
People make choices based on what information they have and I can't fault a Christian for choosing to circumcize when they made the decision based on research that indicated it was better to do so.
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  #9  
July 8th, 2006, 07:04 PM
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You make points that I've wondered about myself. I seriously have not been able to understand Christians who cut their babies (it's sad that so few parents actually research the issue before consenting to the surgery). It seems very clear to me that the many kinds of sacrifice called for in the OT were made unecessary after Christ made the ultimate sacrifice for all of us...and I agree that it seems very disrespectful to continue a practice that the NT clearly states is not needed.
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  #10  
July 9th, 2006, 10:24 AM
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You make some very good points. We are Christians and we decided against circumcising our son. Not only is it a completely unnecessary surgery to perform on an unconsenting individual, as Christians we are told not to do it. Galatians is a good start, as is Romans, and Paul's letters to the Corinthians. Because we are Christians, circumcising (unless absolutely medically necessary) would be a denial of Christ's life, teachings, passion, and death, and to me it would be like telling JC himself, that what he did wasn't good enough. As Christians we are not bound to the laws of the OT, as Christ ushered in the NT. His death was a blood sacrifice that emancipated Christians from the bonds of the old laws.

Sue
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  #11  
July 10th, 2006, 01:04 PM
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I got this from a website about Adventist beliefs.

Symbol of a Covenant Relationship. In Old Testament times circumcision marked the covenantal relationship between God and Abraham (Gen. 17:1-7). The Abrahamic covenant had both spiritual and national aspects. Circumcision was a mark of national identity. Abraham himself and all the males of his family eight days old and older were to be circumcised (Gen. 17:10-14; 25-27). Any male not circumcised was to be "'cut off'" from God's people because he had broken the covenant (Gen. 17:14).

That the covenant was made between God and Abraham, an adult, reveals its

186

spiritual dimension. Abraham's circumcision signified and confirmed his previous experience of justification by faith. His circumcision was "a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised" (Rom. 4:11).

But circumcision alone did not guarantee entrance into the true spiritual dimension of the covenant. Frequently God's spokesmen warned that nothing less than spiritual circumcision would suffice. "'Circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer'" (Deut. 10:16; cf. 30:6; Jer. 4:4). The "uncircumcised in the heart" were to be punished with the Gentiles (Jer. 9:25, 26).

When the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah they broke their covenant relationship with God, terminating their special status as His chosen people (Dan. 9:24-27; see chapter 4 of this book). Although God's covenant and His promises remained the same, He chose a new people. Spiritual Israel replaced the Jewish nation (Gal. 3:27-29; 6:15, 16).

Christ's death ratified the new covenant. People entered this covenant through spiritual circumcision—a response of faith to Jesus' atoning death. Christians have "the gospel for the uncircumcised" (Gal. 2:7). The new covenant requires an "inward faith" and not an "outward rite" of those who would belong to spiritual Israel. One can be a Jew through birth; but one can be a Christian only through the new birth. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avail anything, but faith working through love" (Gal. 5:6). What matters is "circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit" (Rom. 2:28, 29).

Baptism, the sign of a saving relationship with Jesus, represents this spiritual circumcision. "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God who raised Him from the dead" (Col. 2:11, 12).

"Having the 'body of flesh' removed through the spiritual circumcision performed by Jesus, the one baptized now 'puts on Christ' and enters into the covenant relationship with Jesus. As a result he is in line to receive the fulfillment of the covenant promises."18 "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. . . . If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" (Gal. 3:27-29, RSV). Those who have entered into this covenant relationship experience God's assurance, "'I will be their God, and they shall be My people'" (Jer. 31:33).

This is the link: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-14.htm
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  #12  
July 10th, 2006, 01:52 PM
ryansmama's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Quote:
I got this from a website about Adventist beliefs.

Symbol of a Covenant Relationship. In Old Testament times circumcision marked the covenantal relationship between God and Abraham (Gen. 17:1-7). The Abrahamic covenant had both spiritual and national aspects. Circumcision was a mark of national identity. Abraham himself and all the males of his family eight days old and older were to be circumcised (Gen. 17:10-14; 25-27). Any male not circumcised was to be "'cut off'" from God's people because he had broken the covenant (Gen. 17:14).

That the covenant was made between God and Abraham, an adult, reveals its

186

spiritual dimension. Abraham's circumcision signified and confirmed his previous experience of justification by faith. His circumcision was "a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised" (Rom. 4:11).

But circumcision alone did not guarantee entrance into the true spiritual dimension of the covenant. Frequently God's spokesmen warned that nothing less than spiritual circumcision would suffice. "'Circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer'" (Deut. 10:16; cf. 30:6; Jer. 4:4). The "uncircumcised in the heart" were to be punished with the Gentiles (Jer. 9:25, 26).

When the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah they broke their covenant relationship with God, terminating their special status as His chosen people (Dan. 9:24-27; see chapter 4 of this book). Although God's covenant and His promises remained the same, He chose a new people. Spiritual Israel replaced the Jewish nation (Gal. 3:27-29; 6:15, 16).

Christ's death ratified the new covenant. People entered this covenant through spiritual circumcision—a response of faith to Jesus' atoning death. Christians have "the gospel for the uncircumcised" (Gal. 2:7). The new covenant requires an "inward faith" and not an "outward rite" of those who would belong to spiritual Israel. One can be a Jew through birth; but one can be a Christian only through the new birth. "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avail anything, but faith working through love" (Gal. 5:6). What matters is "circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit" (Rom. 2:28, 29).

Baptism, the sign of a saving relationship with Jesus, represents this spiritual circumcision. "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God who raised Him from the dead" (Col. 2:11, 12).

"Having the 'body of flesh' removed through the spiritual circumcision performed by Jesus, the one baptized now 'puts on Christ' and enters into the covenant relationship with Jesus. As a result he is in line to receive the fulfillment of the covenant promises."18 "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. . . . If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" (Gal. 3:27-29, RSV). Those who have entered into this covenant relationship experience God's assurance, "'I will be their God, and they shall be My people'" (Jer. 31:33).

This is the link: http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/27-14.htm[/b]

Wow, great post. Thanks for the information.
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  #13  
July 10th, 2006, 02:25 PM
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I suspect that many (most) Christians who circumcise their sons don't give a second thought to what the NT has to say about it. They do it for supposed medical benefits, or because it's all they know, or because they want Junior's genitals to "match his Daddy".

What I don't understand is when people claim that they are Christian, and circumcising for religious reasons.

Obviously there are many faces of Christianity, and I certainly don't claim to know them all, but while I think everyone has heard of a bris, I have never heard of a comparable religious circumcision ceremony for Christians.

Every other Rite - such as baptism, communion, confirmation, marriage, funeral - is presided over by a minister, and usually takes place in a church, or at least surrounded by family and friends. But Christians who circumcise for "religious reasons" have it done in a hospital, often without even the parents present. How is this a religious ceremony? That's like having the OB or nurse toss water on a baby's head and calling it Baptism.
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