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Does anyone think Scientology is a legitimate religion?


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View Poll Results: Does anyone think Scientology is a legitimate religion?
Yes. 4 13.33%
No. 25 83.33%
Undecided. 1 3.33%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
July 13th, 2006, 01:04 AM
friskycat01's Avatar Super Mommy
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Wasn't Scientology made up by science-fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard? I am not a religious person but that just seems odd. Basing you life's belifes after a book (Dianetics) written by someone who was paid to make stuff up. And wasn't L. Ron sentenced to prison for defrauding the churches members?

"In 1977, Scientology offices on both coasts of the United States were raided by FBI agents seeking evidence of Operation Snow White, a church-run espionage network. Hubbard's wife Mary Sue and a dozen other senior Scientology officials were convicted in 1979 of conspiracy against the United States federal government, while Hubbard himself was named by federal prosecutors as an "unindicted co-conspirator."[10] Facing intense media interest and many subpoenas, he secretly retired to a ranch in tiny Creston, California, north of San Luis Obispo.

In 1978, Hubbard was convicted of felony fraud and sentenced to four years in jail and a 35,000₣ fine by a French court. Hubbard refused to serve his jail time or pay his fine and went into hiding."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard
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  #2  
July 13th, 2006, 01:13 AM
irishxrose
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I don't think it is... it just seems to have all of the signs of a cult. I just don't like it... I've tried learning about it, but it seems so dangerous. And I'm a pretty open-minded person!
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  #3  
July 13th, 2006, 01:22 AM
friskycat01's Avatar Super Mommy
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I like to think of myself as open mindedl but seems cultish to me as well. None of it makes any sense to me and I have tried to read some things but I just don't get it.

I guess it seems to me like this guy worte this si-fi book and thought it would be a good seller, and then all of a sudden people thought "hey I belive this" and others followed because they were just lost. Then the guy thought "hey i could make lots of money."

Either that or this guy was totaly delusional and thought he was a messanger of some type and on the side said "hey i can make some money off this!"
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  #4  
July 13th, 2006, 01:33 AM
irishxrose
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Yeah that's pretty much how I view it as too.
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  #5  
July 13th, 2006, 07:58 AM
mrobinson
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I honestly think most "respected" religions are very cultish.. I find this one no exception. I do enjoy asking people who follow other religions what's the difference between their's and this one as they usually don't see the parrelells, and they don't really understand this religion anyways.

The difference between this one and the others is only about 2000 years. I wonder if 4006, if their will be wars over this religion?
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  #6  
July 13th, 2006, 08:53 AM
kadydid
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The only difference to me is that one is widely accepted and one is not.
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  #7  
July 13th, 2006, 08:57 AM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I think the difference for me is that it seems to be more of a way of life, instead of a religion, KWIM? i know it was organized NOT as religion, but a self help philosophy when hubbard published it. like dr phil or any other self help book- (no i dont think dr phil should have a religion either, but i think some people do!)
I think because of the way you become indoctrinated, and that's what they call it, also disturbs me and makes me point towards cult and not religion. in other religions, you have the free will to choose, to become educated, before you decide to enter in. if i wanted to become a muslim, i know fully what it's about before i convert. not so in scientology, which is known infamously for its secrecy, even to new converts. a good quote from the net that i agree with
"Allegations of Scientology's cult status may be attributed to its unconventional creation by a single authoritative and charismatic leader Within the church, members are arranged in a hierarchically pyramid ranked structure , with higher level members holding authority over lower ranked subordinates, especially as evidenced by the Sea Org. The Church indoctrinates its members providing very little initial knowledge of the inner secrets of the organization. In order to reach this knowledge parishioners are required to advance forward in rank through study and payments to the Church, the incentive of which is the stepped acquisition of promised powerful secrets and gaining of supernatural abilities."

it also places a high importance on not feeling or experiencing bad things or pain. it tries to reduce "engrams" or negative things or people and believes that A person is basically good, but becomes "aberrated" by moments of pain and unconsciousness in his or her life. i think that most other religions tell you that life is hard and that you will experience pain and you are to grow through those. not to avoid them.

of course as a therapist, i think that seeing psychology and therapy as evil and abusive.. sounds like hubbard just had a bad experience and is biased BUT JUST MY OPINION. i know there are tons of bad therapists out there, and many can heal themselves and dont need meds and so on. i'm aware of that. i also know that tons of people out there recieve help for their marriages, depression, and so on, when they weren't getting the help elsewhere.

hubbard was also a highly accomplished hypnotist and would perform all the time while he was alive. it would makes sense to me that you know little about what is going on when you join, and then gradually you become entranced and hypnotized by the way they seclude and teach you.
silent birth also comes from those "engrams" and beleives that if a woman is screaming and so on, then she is harming the baby, creating a harsh negative environment. he also says babies are not to be washed when they are born, but swaddled and left alone for a day. and no breastfeeding, but no formula either. honey, barley water, homogonized milk, which has been shown to be harmful to infants, and oats mixture, even though honey can cause infant botulism.

one of the wierdest parts to me is that you reach these levels, but to reach the the highest level, OT VIII, is only disclosed at sea, on the Scientology cruise ship Freewinds. and above all, scientology teaches that over 75 million years ago in Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu) is an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, brought billions of people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.
""Xenu With the assistance of "renegades", he defeated the populace and the "Loyal Officers", a force for good that was opposed to Xenu. Then, with the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions of people to paralyse them with injections of alcohol and glycol, under the pretense that they were being called for "income tax inspections. The hundreds of billions of captured thetans were taken to a type of cinema, where they were forced to watch a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for 36 days. This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data" into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, etcetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu. The interior decoration of "all modern theaters" is also said by Hubbard to be due to an unconscious recollection of Xenu's implants. The two "implant stations" cited by Hubbard were said to have been located on Hawaii and Las Palmas in the Canary Islands.OT III recipients must sign a waiver promising never to reveal its secrets before they are given the manila envelope containing the Xenu knowledge. It is knowledge so dangerous, members are told, anyone learning this material before he is ready could die.
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  #8  
July 13th, 2006, 09:30 AM
apples's Avatar Member
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Now, I don't agree with scientology at all and think some of the teachings are down right nutty, however by definition it is considerd a legitimate religion. After all I find a number of other religions nutty as well, but they still are religions no matter how nutty they are.


re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
3. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
4. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
5. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Idiom:
get religion Informal
1. To become religious or devout.
2. To resolve to end one's immoral behavior.
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  #9  
July 13th, 2006, 09:51 AM
Mega Super Mommy
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I am an equal opportunity skeptic of religions, so it's hard for me to look at one that says "person X raised from the dead" and one that says "you can gain supernatural abilities" and say either is more or less logical.
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  #10  
July 13th, 2006, 10:11 AM
mrobinson
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I think the difference for me is that it seems to be more of a way of life, instead of a religion, KWIM? i know it was organized NOT as religion, but a self help philosophy when hubbard published it. like dr phil or any other self help book- (no i dont think dr phil should have a religion either, but i think some people do!)
I think because of the way you become indoctrinated, and that's what they call it, also disturbs me and makes me point towards cult and not religion. in other religions, you have the free will to choose, to become educated, before you decide to enter in. if i wanted to become a muslim, i know fully what it's about before i convert. not so in scientology, which is known infamously for its secrecy, even to new converts. a good quote from the net that i agree with
"Allegations of Scientology's cult status may be attributed to its unconventional creation by a single authoritative and charismatic leader Within the church, members are arranged in a hierarchically pyramid ranked structure , with higher level members holding authority over lower ranked subordinates, especially as evidenced by the Sea Org. The Church indoctrinates its members providing very little initial knowledge of the inner secrets of the organization. In order to reach this knowledge parishioners are required to advance forward in rank through study and payments to the Church, the incentive of which is the stepped acquisition of promised powerful secrets and gaining of supernatural abilities."

it also places a high importance on not feeling or experiencing bad things or pain. it tries to reduce "engrams" or negative things or people and believes that A person is basically good, but becomes "aberrated" by moments of pain and unconsciousness in his or her life. i think that most other religions tell you that life is hard and that you will experience pain and you are to grow through those. not to avoid them.

of course as a therapist, i think that seeing psychology and therapy as evil and abusive.. sounds like hubbard just had a bad experience and is biased BUT JUST MY OPINION. i know there are tons of bad therapists out there, and many can heal themselves and dont need meds and so on. i'm aware of that. i also know that tons of people out there recieve help for their marriages, depression, and so on, when they weren't getting the help elsewhere.

hubbard was also a highly accomplished hypnotist and would perform all the time while he was alive. it would makes sense to me that you know little about what is going on when you join, and then gradually you become entranced and hypnotized by the way they seclude and teach you.
silent birth also comes from those "engrams" and beleives that if a woman is screaming and so on, then she is harming the baby, creating a harsh negative environment. he also says babies are not to be washed when they are born, but swaddled and left alone for a day. and no breastfeeding, but no formula either. honey, barley water, homogonized milk, which has been shown to be harmful to infants, and oats mixture, even though honey can cause infant botulism.

one of the wierdest parts to me is that you reach these levels, but to reach the the highest level, OT VIII, is only disclosed at sea, on the Scientology cruise ship Freewinds. and above all, scientology teaches that over 75 million years ago in Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu) is an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, brought billions of people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.
""Xenu With the assistance of "renegades", he defeated the populace and the "Loyal Officers", a force for good that was opposed to Xenu. Then, with the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions of people to paralyse them with injections of alcohol and glycol, under the pretense that they were being called for "income tax inspections. The hundreds of billions of captured thetans were taken to a type of cinema, where they were forced to watch a "three-D, super colossal motion picture" for 36 days. This implanted what Hubbard termed "various misleading data" into the memories of the hapless thetans, "which has to do with God, the Devil, space opera, etcetera". This included all world religions, with Hubbard specifically attributing Roman Catholicism and the image of the Crucifixion to the influence of Xenu. The interior decoration of "all modern theaters" is also said by Hubbard to be due to an unconscious recollection of Xenu's implants. The two "implant stations" cited by Hubbard were said to have been located on Hawaii and Las Palmas in the Canary Islands.OT III recipients must sign a waiver promising never to reveal its secrets before they are given the manila envelope containing the Xenu knowledge. It is knowledge so dangerous, members are told, anyone learning this material before he is ready could die.[/b]
This is an awesome post!

I completely agree with the Dr.Phil reference (as I am a follower.)

I've often kept to myself the same opinion about the mental health profession and him. I just think back then mental health was just in it's infantcy so I could see how he could have a bad experience.. His idea's are pretty far out there (this knowledge could kill you!) but at the same time, what's more out there? That people could go to Heavan/Hell or that aliens are the end?
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  #11  
July 13th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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yeah i'm not saying at all that other religions dont sound crazy too. i can understand questioning 3 days and rose again, or questioning zen level meditation, or that we all lived in past lives... all sounds a bit off doesnt it. however to me personally, scientology is so rooted in secrecy and so hidden and shrouded and i dont think for myself, that this type of "religion" is something that is free. plus its been well cocumented that he wrote these "science dramas" or something when he was younger, and this story about this alien making the earth, and that he did it just for fun. and then years later he took those fiction stories that he just made up and helped produce a following that garners lots and lots of money, using MAYBE hypnotherapy, hypnotism? i can't follow that as a religion. and i highly differentiate between religion and self help
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  #12  
July 13th, 2006, 12:11 PM
mrobinson
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i can't follow that as a religion. and i highly differentiate between religion and self help[/b]
ooooo.. I should go ressurect some old threads on this..
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  #13  
July 13th, 2006, 12:30 PM
friskycat01's Avatar Super Mommy
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Here is some stuff I found...

<span style="color:#FF0000"> The Unfunny Truth...

http://theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com/

http://theunfunnysequel.ytmnd.com/
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  #14  
July 13th, 2006, 04:16 PM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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the unfunny truth one-- wow wow wow. and it has tons of references to check on as well. looks to ME like a cult gaining money, under the guise of a church
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  #15  
July 13th, 2006, 05:22 PM
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Yes, Scientology may have been started by a sci-fi writer who wrote a book that lots of people read and believed in. But how is that any weirder than a cult that was started by a carpenter who some guys wrote a book about that lots of people read and believed in?
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  #16  
July 13th, 2006, 05:58 PM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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ok i have to at least say that it was not started by a carpenter. jesus did not start christianity, and i'm not debating the merits of that religion, however, the group does beleive in the jewish god, and a prophecy was given to those people that a messiah would appear taking away their sins. Jews dont believe that messiah has come yet, however the old testament is the background for alot of the christian belief about how the world was formed, and so on. jesus while a major figure, and of course the focus of christianity, thats what makes them christian and not jewish, is not the only part of their belief system. but it wasn't started by jesus in their belief. he was a playing role
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  #17  
July 15th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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Okay, but how does that it make it more legitimate? What I'm saying is all religions were "made up" by someone. Someone had an idea that formed into something bigger and eventually became a religion. So how can any one religion be any more legitimate than another? How can we even say that a certain religion is not legitimate? Even the major religions are made up of some of the wackiest ideas and out-there beliefs. So what makes them more legitimate- there number of followers? They weren't always the largest religions and something could easily shift and that could change again. Would that make them less legit? What is the criteria for judging someone's religion as less legitmate than someone else's?
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  #18  
July 15th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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because i would say that the other religions dont expect you to pay $20,000 for classes in order to go through the ranks. they are free. you can practice them on your own, in private, you can choose to leave. scientology is very expensive, you are kept in secret, and you have to pay thousands of dollars to learn more and more. they guy was a hypnotist and you take these classes one on one in a closed room. just seems to me that he saw that religion pulls people in, found a way to get money, taught others to hypnotize, and sells people on the ideas to get them in the door. i mean there are lists of people that have lost mortgages, all the money in their savings and all investments, lost boats, and so on to this organization. you also can't learn what you are getting into.
it honestly sounds like a scam and not a religion. thats why. i'm not saying lots of others dont sound nutty, but i think this guy was brilliant and got a group of people around him to spread this idea and pull others into their scheme to get money.
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  #19  
July 20th, 2006, 08:42 AM
Lash's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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wow with all the hype and stuff that goes on out there surrounding tom cruise and others, and with all the mysteriousness of this religion/cult whatever, nobody has anythign else to say on this!
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  #20  
July 31st, 2006, 01:29 PM
brodysmum's Avatar Regular
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sorry to say, but im going to be slightly irrational on this one

scientology is nothing but a glorified cult. the fact that i had a cousin that dropped a UCLA scholarship bc his church of scientology said so....is just a way to brainwash their followers. same thing happens in other cult like religions...they just have famous idiots [tom cruise anyone? nobody ever believed he had a brain anyway right?] that spark publicity for them. ive seen countless family members go from productive and having amazing opprtunities to "L. Ron Hubbard said...." L. Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writer. hello?! does that sound like someone that should really be starting a religion? im not saying im the complete christian here...i don't even have one, but that doesn't mean that im going to run to a religion where im a brainwashed over zealous sci-fi nerd either. L. Ron was just a man with bad books that wanted a following...so he started a religion that doesn't know how to free think. its not a legit religion, its just a bunch of followers for a bad writer.

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