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Gun free zones

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April 5th, 2012, 01:24 PM
*Leslie*'s Avatar Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by Fluffy Baby View Post
No, she explained more into it and I think what she did was perfectly normal and her training kicked in. In her first post, she made it seem that she froze. Then she went back and clarified what happened. I clarified what I mean by I worry about people around my DH.

It has nothing to do with Leslie doing anything heinous. My point is if she froze (which from the clarification, she did not, it just took a second for her training to kick in) she should evaulate if that field is for her because next time, it could mean life or death for somebody else. ANY person should if they freeze in the first incident.

I love when words are put in somebody's mouth and people call in a support squad.
Support team? Really. Someone with similar experience posted in defense. No one called in a support team.

My "clarification" was no different than what I originally posted, so really, your first response was totally off base. The fact that you have 100% trust in what someone would do in that kind of situation is laughable to me. No one can know what they will do 100% of the time in that kind of situation, let alone what another person will do.
For the record, I talked down a fight today when I was the only staff member in a room with 40 inmates with Psychotic Disorders. My adrenaline was going and my heart was racing, that doesn't make me a liability, it makes me a human.

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April 5th, 2012, 03:43 PM
Hey... Where's Perry?'s Avatar Darnit face
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,134
I just "liked" your post, Leslie. I support you and your boobs.
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June 16th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
It's really very simple for me. I had three kids to raise, one of them was mine. My guy loved guns and guitars probably more than anything except me. We target shot, we went on trips, and we had the kids. We didn't mess with anyone who didn't give us a reason. If you tried to get in our house, you would have been on the business end of a pistol or shotgun. We were threatened three times over the years and had the guns present but did not end up firing them. They brought a sense of security as well as being fun. We showed the kids what the guns did and they respected them. That was all there was to it.

We never kept ammunition locked up in another city, we kept the guns handy and we would go out back and fire off rounds for enjoyment. Our kids saw the pumpkins and tomatoes when they were hit with bullets and they never touched a gun without us being there. They are grown now, never an incident. To me this puts all the arguements to rest. I carry an old 1930's police gun because I like it and it makes me feel secure. I wont get angry and shoot someone, and I wont shoot up a school or church. But I wont take anything off anyone who threatens me either.
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June 16th, 2012, 03:17 PM
Cereal Killer's Avatar Aiming for mediocrity
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: in my house
Posts: 7,374
The irony that most of the massacres perpetrated by gun wielding lunatics with a score to settle have occurred in designated gun-free zones, cannot be disregarded. You don't hear about mass shootings at a police station or a gun show. Since 2001, more than 20 shootings have occurred on college campuses that are designated GFZ.
At the start of the 2010 fall semester, 14 Colorado community colleges (38 campuses) began allowing licensed concealed carry on campus. Since the fall semester of 2006, Utah state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of Utah’s nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses). Concealed carry has been allowed on the two campuses of Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO, and Pueblo, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for an average of more than three years (as of June 2011), none of these 26 colleges (71 campuses) has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides) or a single resulting gun accident.
States that keep statistics on crimes committed by concealed handgun license holders invariably find that licensees are significantly less likely than unlicensed residents to commit violent crimes. In Texas, for example, the rate of concealed carry is about 1.8% (as of December 31, 2010). Approximately one Texan out of every 55 is licensed to carry a concealed handgun. Yet, according to official statistics, Texas concealed handgun license holders are five and a half times less likely than members of Texas’s general population to commit manslaughter and four times less likely to commit murder. Despite Texas’s high rate of concealed carry, a person in Texas is more than 20 times as likely to be struck by lightning as to be murdered or negligently killed by a concealed handgun license holder.
Facts, Statistics & Arguments Supporting Concealed Carry on Campus

The website also addresses common arguments, some of which have been brought up in this debate.

In response to those who thought it would make a bad situation worse:
Argument: "In an active shooter scenario like the one that occurred at Virginia Tech, a student or faculty member with a gun would only make things worse."

"What is worse than allowing an execution-style massacre to continue uncontested? How could any action with the potential to stop or slow a deranged killer intent on slaughtering victim after victim be considered ‘worse’ than allowing that killer to continue undeterred? Contrary to what the movies might have us believe, most real-world shootouts last less than 10 seconds*. Even the real Gunfight at the O.K. Corral, a shootout involving nine armed participants and a number of bystanders, lasted only about 30 seconds and resulted in only three fatalities. It is unlikely that an exchange of gunfire between an armed assailant and an armed citizen would last more than a couple of seconds before one or both parties were disabled. How could a few seconds of exchanged gunfire possibly be worse than a 10-minute, uncontested execution-style massacre, like the one that occurred at Virginia Tech?"
In response to the PP that this would result in vigilantism, as alleged in the Trayvon Martin case:
Argument: "The last thing we need is a bunch of vigilantes getting into a shootout with a madman, particularly since it's been proven that trained police officers have an accuracy rate of only about 15-25% in the field."

Answer: "Citizens with concealed handgun licenses are not vigilantes. They carry their concealed handguns as a means of getting themselves out of harm's way, not as an excuse to go chasing after bad guys. Whereas police shooting statistics involve scenarios such as pursuits down dark alleys and armed standoffs with assailants barricaded inside buildings, most civilian shootings happen at pointblank range. In the Luby's Cafeteria massacre, the Columbine High School massacre, and the Virginia Tech massacre, the assailants moved slowly and methodically, shooting their victims at very close range. A person doesn't have to be a deadeye shot to defend himself or herself against an assailant standing only a few feet away.

Originally Posted by cybele View Post
I really have nothing of use to add to the debate, living in Australia ive never experienced anyone who owns a gun who isnt a police officer or farmer.

Dosent it scare you that so many people are walking around with lethal weapons hidden on their person? That wouldnt probably make me so terrified and id never leave the house, and I have to say, its one thing thats prevented me from every gong to America, id love to go there, but id be so paranoid about the excessive gun use, I can honestly say that im too scared to go.
I hate to shatter your perception of Utopia:

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
  • In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:
  • Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
  • During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
  • Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
  • Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
  • At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
  • Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
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June 17th, 2012, 07:31 PM
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
I'm one of those Americans who carries a gun. Funny thing,no one knows I carry it, and no one has to run around worrying ins ome state of paranoia because as a sane rational human being I have no desire to hurt another person. I've carried my gun for a long time and never had a problem. It is criminals people have to fear, not law abiding citizens.
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June 18th, 2012, 09:19 AM
SusieQ2's Avatar Jersey Girl
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 39,051
Originally Posted by Poncho06 View Post
I have not, outside of law enforcement there are essentially no CCW's in NJ. I have, however, been trained on weapons in the military and disagree a billion times over that instinct and ONE training course will have any effect with the outcome of a persons ability to manage themselves along with a weapon in a fight or flight situation. Especially based upon your opinion that "it doesn't take much" training. It takes constant consistent training to learn and keep the ability to navigate oneself through a high stress situation where there is (a) person(s) shooting others and how to discern the assailant from others who are attempting to protect themselves.
I completely agree. I think there are way too many people out there who do not have enough of an understanding about gun safety or how to use a gun effectively in a crisis situation.

I'd hate to be at the mall when some random person comes in and starts shooting but I think I'd hate it even more if every other random shopped pulled out a gun and started shooting back. It would be mass chaos in a matter of seconds and more innocent people would likely lose their lives.

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June 27th, 2012, 10:06 PM
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 444
Kind of sounds like a joke for me. How about we have a no serial killer zone, or a no terrorist allowed zone, a no knife zone, a no robbers allowed bank?

A person can always hide their gun in their clothes and sneak it in. If someone wants to go on a shooting spree, a no gun zone isn't exactly going to stop him, unless everyone gets a pat down.
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