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Sending your adoptive child back?


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  #1  
August 9th, 2012, 10:12 AM
short_n_swt's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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I apologize if this has been already posted...I hadn't seen it, so I decided to give it a shot...

Anyways, recently I heard the story of a woman who adopted a child from a Russian orphanage, and as he was a difficult boy to manage, she felt the orphanage had lied to her regarded his behaviour, etc. So long story short, she sent him back to Russia.

I believe in Canada and the States you receive a social worker who helps assists a family and child get settled together, but I doubt you get the same assistance if you adopt from over seas.

My question is though, regardless where you live, should you be able to "send a child back" if you feel they are unruly or not a fit for your family? And if so, should there be consequences like a waiting period before being able to adopt again? (Obviously the way this boy was sent "back" was cruel). Or is it once you adopt, you have taken on the responsibilities for that child no matter what?
Is the financial consequences for this woman enough, or to much?
Curious for your opinions on this topic....here is the link for this particular story:

US Mother sends adopted child back to Russia
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  #2  
August 9th, 2012, 10:44 AM
*Jennifer*'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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This woman should never be allowed to adopt again. She sent back this child like he was, as the article states, a piece of luggage. When your biological child has issues like that boy, you get help for them. You don't just send them away because they don't fit the criteria for you.

I am going to assume that another reason for sending the child back was for the safety of her bio son. I can understand her fear. Again, she should've gotten the child help and go from there.

One more thing. I highly doubt she was 100 percent sure she was adopting a boy with no psychological issues. You don't adopt from a foreign country without taking that chance. I just wonder if her thinking from the beginning was, "If I have to, I will just send him back."
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  #3  
August 9th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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There's never a 100% guarantee of a child not having psychological problems even your own bio kid. Neither parent could have issues, kids could seem fine & then bam.

I think when you adopt, it should be like having your own kids - you deal with what you get.
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  #4  
August 9th, 2012, 01:53 PM
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Like Jennifer said, she should never be allowed to adopt again. Adopting a child is no different that biologically having a child. You get what you get and that's that. If the child has problems, you assist your child in working through them. You don't toss them on the street like trash. We are not in the days where parents locked up their children in institutions because they had a mental illness. Now a days we seek help for our children and ourselves if need be. This woman disgusts me to the core.
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  #5  
August 9th, 2012, 03:22 PM
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So many people want children in this world and welcome them, and whatever baggage they may bring, with open arms. Then you have moronic asshats.

People like this, disgust me. I don't care if that comes across mean, either. They flat out disgust me.
There is NO guarantee on anything in life, except death. When you become a parent, in whatever way you do, you are taking on the role of being responsible for another human life-and EVERYTHING it entails. If you cannot handle it at it's worst times without completely walking away, what makes you think you deserve the great times? Life sucks sometimes and everyone gets dealt a bad hand now and again. Now I'm not saying everyone deals with life so hot all the time, or that parents cannot get overwhelmed, or feel in over their heads. That all happens too. But a real parent(again, how you became one, plays NO part in this) knows that life is not going to be smooth sailing. It gets rough, and you might not always deal with it the best way that you can. But you don't just toss a person aside simply because you can't deal, and pretend like someone did YOU wrong by placing them with you in the first place. That does not sit well for me. She's looking to place blame everywhere it does not belong.

Taking a child into your home, regardless of how it comes to be, is a HUGE responsibility. Most kids that are available for adoption are so because their parents could not deal, for whatever reason-and I won't judge those reasons.(not all, but most). Why in the hell would you want to put a child through that TWICE(at least) in their lifetime? Seriously. Did this woman not think for one moment about how the child might feel? Knowing **** good and well he's aware that he already doesn't have biological parents to love and care for him. Did she think it would be okay because he's used to it? Did she think it wouldn't have any effect on him?

Woman doesn't deserve to have kids, period. I hope to high hell no one ever lets her adopt again. It may not be the lowest of the low, but it's still pretty **** low
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  #6  
August 9th, 2012, 07:52 PM
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This happens more than people would like to think, and unfortunately particularly with eastern european adoptions. The actual waiting periods these children must be held before adoption is also a huge problem contributing to this. In Russia, a child needs to be considered "abandoned" 18 mths before they can become available for adoption. There are so many children in orphanages, some are never touched by their care givers. Even if you adopt a 1 year old child, it can already be too late for them to learn to love and trust. Not making excuses for this woman at all, it's horrible when someone has to disrupt an adoption. Although RAD is nothing to laugh about, some serious stuff here, and until someone has lived it, they have no clue.

Reactive attachment disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #7  
August 10th, 2012, 04:57 AM
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I think this woman went about this the wrong way. I do think you should be allowed to give up an adopted child the same way you could your own child. But sending them on a plane with a note is not the right way.

No I do not think she should be able to adopt again, but I'm not sure that I can say the same for all people who go through something like this. If there are good reasons for giving them up and it's done in the right way, I'm not sure that should stop you from being able to adopt in the future when things improve. You'd have to be in some pretty dire circumstances though.
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  #8  
August 10th, 2012, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Frozenoj View Post
I think this woman went about this the wrong way. I do think you should be allowed to give up an adopted child the same way you could your own child. But sending them on a plane with a note is not the right way.

No I do not think she should be able to adopt again, but I'm not sure that I can say the same for all people who go through something like this. If there are good reasons for giving them up and it's done in the right way, I'm not sure that should stop you from being able to adopt in the future when things improve. You'd have to be in some pretty dire circumstances though.
I agree with this.
What many people fail to realize is that there are some circumstances that go way beyond the norm in behavior issues. And that is putting it mildly. unless you have lived an extreme circumstance, you really can't understand the desperation some parents face. However, this woman did not go about terminating her parental rights in the proper way at all and I agree that she should never be able to adopt again.
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  #9  
August 12th, 2012, 02:02 PM
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The way she did this was wrong, period. I don't think you'll find one person who is okay with HOW she went about giving him back. But, I think it's easy for people to sit around and say she was wrong for even wanting to give him back and having very little understanding of the circumstances. I also think Russia has to take some of the blame here as well, but she made it so easy to point all fingers at her that they come out unscathed. She also should hold some responsibility in the fact that Russian orphans having RAD is not at all uncommon and should have been given a lot of consideration. I always wondered how much support she got in the US in regards to respite and such.
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  #10  
August 12th, 2012, 04:12 PM
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I don't normally post in this section, but I thought I would come out since I know about this situation. It happened in my state and has been a big uptodo thing, although it is calming down now as things have progressed. The woman has been ordered to pay child support for the child, but no other charges were filed (I don't think, I'll have to double check)

I don't think its the fact she gave him back, its the WAY she did it, and I have wonder if she felt there was no other way. According to some reports, the Russian gov. was giving her NO help whatsoever when she says she contacted them about sending him back. They of course say this is not the case. To be honest I'm more inclined to believe the Russian gov. is lying than her, but I don't know. I never heard of anyone looking it phone records.

Personally, aside from the way she did it, I don't think she should be punished for wanting to return him. If a biological parent wants to give up their child, they can do so. But here in the states its easy when you live here. If someone adopts a child from another country and realizes they are in over their head, it may be best for the child to go back.

But this brings up a lot of questions.

Is it best the kid stays? Goes? What kind of help is there? What about safety concerns? Could the mother have given the child up to services in the states since the other gov. supposedly didn't care?

Another thing that people don't realize is that, kids his age and even younger, travel on plans by themselves all the time. You call the airline ahead of time and set things up, they usually assign someone to take the child from one gate to the other and make sure they get on. So I don't see why this kid should be treated any different as far as going by himself. Its the fact that no one KNEW (I believe the airline did know though) that he was going and then ended up back in Russia with no one there to get him.
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  #11  
August 12th, 2012, 05:21 PM
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I completely understand, whether or not I've ever dealt with it personally, the overwhelming nature that some things surely can and will come with. I have a very good friend that has 6 adopted children, a couple of them do have some serious issues, 3 of their children are international adoptions and the other 3 from right here. I've watched them struggle with issues just like this, and it truly breaks my heart. I don't have to experience something to feel empathetic towards those going through it. I don't judge her on wanting to eliminate her responsibilities because she could not handle them. I may not agree with it, but I would prefer not to judge her based on that alone.
I will however judge her on all of it put together, because she is painting her own self in a very bad light. Part of adopting out of your own country is KNOWING what you're getting into. KNOWING there is a strong possibility that you're not getting the whole truth from the other side(and no I am not saying this is right of them, in any way, shape, or form, just that you KNOW it happens, you cannot adopt internationally and not know this). Saying that children from other countries are prone to certain things pretty much just backs that up. If you know(and you **** well better long before you actually follow through with this desire to adopt) there is a good possibility that the children often have various issues(be it medical or otherwise), then you are placing the main responsibility in your own hands. You are after all the one who will be dealing with it firsthand. No I'm not going to say that the Russian government is in the right, or something. We all can quite clearly see they aren't. But this is a person we're talking about here, not some tangible good coming to you with questionable background. A living, breathing PERSON. Even worse, it's a child, who has absolutely no indepth understanding of everything going on. In fact he, or she(this isn't the only case of a child being returned, obviously) may not even fully understand his or her own background, much less current events. It's no wonder so many do have issues, they aren't exactly living the life of luxury, hence the need to be adopted in the first place.

I commend anyone wanting to, and willing to, bring a child not of their own blood into their home. It's such a selfless act, in most cases, and it's beyond admirable for me. But I will not say "oh, well, you didn't really know what you were getting, I understand, it's ok" when that person decides it was too much to handle, sends the child packing, and starts placing blame everywhere else. Nope, I just can't say that. I can say "I'm sorry things did not work out and it was so much more difficult than you anticipated" when a parent actually goes into the adoption with the mindset that it WILL be difficult, they've fully educated themselves, and they've truly done whatever possible to make things work once the child is in their care-yet still cannot get things to work and finds it's in the child's best interest to find someone who CAN. I still can't say I'd always agree with the decision, mostly for personal reasons, but in that case I can feel much more empathetic. I cannot feel empathy for someone who goes into it ignorant and later decides to point the finger at everyone else. Others have a hand in it too, of course, but, imo, do not ever try to absolve your own involvement in why things did not work out. That just tells me you're not ready to be a parent at all, at least not yet.

I have very strong convictions when it comes to certain things in regards to raising children, including dealing with life when it gets beyond overwhelming and how best to deal with it. I always opt in favor for the child's best interest....always. This woman did not have the child's best interest at heart and that bothers me tremendously, regardless of whatever issues he might have that made it so difficult she just could not do it. Again, I don't think not being able to deal and having to place the child elsewhere is in, and of itself, a bad thing. But It should ALWAYS be a last resort and should never be done in a way that the child is basically treated like imported goods. That's just wrong on every possible level.

People here in the US do it too, so it's not just international adoptions. It happens all over the place. Adoptive parents take on something they later realize they cannot and eventually the child has to be placed elsewhere, or returned. I get that, completely. And I know there are people who go about it the wrong way here in the US too. It's never right, imo, to do so-there are better ways to handle this sort of thing should it become necessary. But I also know that international adoptions can be more tricky, and people wishing to do so really need to do their **** homework because these issues that often occur are WELL KNOWN! (if they weren't well known, I wouldn't feel the same, but they are and have been for decades)
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  #12  
August 12th, 2012, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frackel View Post
I completely understand, whether or not I've ever dealt with it personally, the overwhelming nature that some things surely can and will come with. I have a very good friend that has 6 adopted children, a couple of them do have some serious issues, 3 of their children are international adoptions and the other 3 from right here. I've watched them struggle with issues just like this, and it truly breaks my heart. I don't have to experience something to feel empathetic towards those going through it. I don't judge her on wanting to eliminate her responsibilities because she could not handle them. I may not agree with it, but I would prefer not to judge her based on that alone.
I will however judge her on all of it put together, because she is painting her own self in a very bad light. Part of adopting out of your own country is KNOWING what you're getting into. KNOWING there is a strong possibility that you're not getting the whole truth from the other side(and no I am not saying this is right of them, in any way, shape, or form, just that you KNOW it happens, you cannot adopt internationally and not know this). Saying that children from other countries are prone to certain things pretty much just backs that up. If you know(and you **** well better long before you actually follow through with this desire to adopt) there is a good possibility that the children often have various issues(be it medical or otherwise), then you are placing the main responsibility in your own hands. You are after all the one who will be dealing with it firsthand. No I'm not going to say that the Russian government is in the right, or something. We all can quite clearly see they aren't. But this is a person we're talking about here, not some tangible good coming to you with questionable background. A living, breathing PERSON. Even worse, it's a child, who has absolutely no indepth understanding of everything going on. In fact he, or she(this isn't the only case of a child being returned, obviously) may not even fully understand his or her own background, much less current events. It's no wonder so many do have issues, they aren't exactly living the life of luxury, hence the need to be adopted in the first place.

I commend anyone wanting to, and willing to, bring a child not of their own blood into their home. It's such a selfless act, in most cases, and it's beyond admirable for me. But I will not say "oh, well, you didn't really know what you were getting, I understand, it's ok" when that person decides it was too much to handle, sends the child packing, and starts placing blame everywhere else. Nope, I just can't say that. I can say "I'm sorry things did not work out and it was so much more difficult than you anticipated" when a parent actually goes into the adoption with the mindset that it WILL be difficult, they've fully educated themselves, and they've truly done whatever possible to make things work once the child is in their care-yet still cannot get things to work and finds it's in the child's best interest to find someone who CAN. I still can't say I'd always agree with the decision, mostly for personal reasons, but in that case I can feel much more empathetic. I cannot feel empathy for someone who goes into it ignorant and later decides to point the finger at everyone else. Others have a hand in it too, of course, but, imo, do not ever try to absolve your own involvement in why things did not work out. That just tells me you're not ready to be a parent at all, at least not yet.

I have very strong convictions when it comes to certain things in regards to raising children, including dealing with life when it gets beyond overwhelming and how best to deal with it. I always opt in favor for the child's best interest....always. This woman did not have the child's best interest at heart and that bothers me tremendously, regardless of whatever issues he might have that made it so difficult she just could not do it. Again, I don't think not being able to deal and having to place the child elsewhere is in, and of itself, a bad thing. But It should ALWAYS be a last resort and should never be done in a way that the child is basically treated like imported goods. That's just wrong on every possible level.

People here in the US do it too, so it's not just international adoptions. It happens all over the place. Adoptive parents take on something they later realize they cannot and eventually the child has to be placed elsewhere, or returned. I get that, completely. And I know there are people who go about it the wrong way here in the US too. It's never right, imo, to do so-there are better ways to handle this sort of thing should it become necessary. But I also know that international adoptions can be more tricky, and people wishing to do so really need to do their **** homework because these issues that often occur are WELL KNOWN! (if they weren't well known, I wouldn't feel the same, but they are and have been for decades)
You talk about the child's best interest, but what child? From what I remember he was a threat to the safety of the other child in the home. So, it came down to one or the other. I don't think this mom was callous and evil, I think she was at the end of her rope. She went about it the whole wrong way, but I do think she thought it was best for all involved.
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  #13  
August 13th, 2012, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by lesliek0211 View Post
You talk about the child's best interest, but what child? From what I remember he was a threat to the safety of the other child in the home. So, it came down to one or the other. I don't think this mom was callous and evil, I think she was at the end of her rope. She went about it the whole wrong way, but I do think she thought it was best for all involved.
While I do think she was at the end of her rope, I do question what mom did to help the child. If I remember correctly, she changed her mind after six months which is an extremely short period of time in the world of children with behavior issues and in reality, the starting point. Its common knowledge that the older the child, the more difficult the behaviors may be so I am curious as to why she chose him and not someone younger or perhaps a baby. I agree that she probably did think she was doing the right thing but it seems to me that she may have gone into the whole adoption process with blinders on.
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  #14  
August 13th, 2012, 09:01 AM
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When I talk of the child's best interest I am speaking about any and all children involved. So I do agree that if one child is in danger, sometimes a hard decision has to be made. I get that part completely. Like I said, I'm not going to judge her based on giving him back, alone. Because it can, and it does happen, all the time, all over the world. People have their reasons for making that decision and for most, it probably doesn't come easy. I don't think this particular person falls under that. I think it was a very easy decision for her.

How she went about it, to me, is just as important as the why. Actually, in this case, the how is even more important. She went into the process either without educating herself, choosing to remain ignorant to the potential issues, or perhaps believing she did educate herself, but in reality didn't. Either way, it's ignorance, and imo, ignorance has no place in that sort of situation. "I didn't know", doesn't sit well with me. Not because it can't possibly be true, but because this isn't the purchase of imported goods. There is a lot more at stake here. We're talking about a person, living and breathing. A person who's likely not lead the greatest life up to that point. I would not, personally, ever accept "I didn't know" as an excuse for why someone overlooked the glaringly obvious statistics. A little bit of research goes a long way. She's pointing fingers everywhere else, and that too bothers me.

I never said she's evil, but I did say people like that disgust me. What she did WAS callous, it doesn't matter how you try to spin it, it was callous. I stand by that. She treated the child like he was imported goods, even worse, damaged imported goods. That disgusts me. Her method of eliminating the "problems" tells me she's not really ready for such a commitment and very well may never be. It makes me wonder what she'd do if a child placed with her had issues down the road. Would she do the same? It's entirely possible, likely even. I don't like that. What would she do if a child she already has developed some kind of issue later down the road-biological or adopted? Would she opt for the same path? One would like to hope not, but the skeptic in me says she very well could do the same thing.
That's not something I stand for, ever. I don't believe in giving up when the road gets tough as being your first, or even second or third, solution. That's just me and how I am. I've seen so many people struggle through so much heartache and issues over the years that I am a bit harder on people when they say "life's too hard", or "it's too hard". That doesn't mean I believe they are wrong, or not trying, it just means I'm more cynical of their decisions, at times. I am not saying a parent should never give a child up for adoption(in this case, return a child to it), especially if there are some major issues. I just believe it should always be the last resort. It doesn't sound to me like there were any real attempted solutions before she opted for this one.
Her actions speak a lot louder than her intentions. What she may have thought was the right thing deep in her heart, very well could have been the right thing. But it gets all mucked up by her actions.
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August 13th, 2012, 10:59 AM
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hmmm I didn't realize that it was easy to terminate parental rights on children in the US. Yes babies but not older kids???? Guess I need to check into this in case mine turn bad.
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  #16  
August 13th, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Frackel View Post
I don't believe in giving up when the road gets tough as being your first, or even second or third, solution. .
I agree in most situations, but sometimes when behaviors are extreme, solution #1 may be the right and safest choice for everyone in the house.
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  #17  
August 13th, 2012, 01:14 PM
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I agree in most situations, but sometimes when behaviors are extreme, solution #1 may be the right and safest choice for everyone in the house.
It may end up being that it is the only solution left in the end, or rather the safest/best for all involved. It should never be option #1, though, imo. Not when you're dealing with children who, had you done your homework, are likely going to come with baggage you very well may not be able to deal with as easily as you'd like. You can't fully prepare to be a parent, no matter how you come to be. But there are some things you can educate yourself on. It's pretty glaringly obvious she chose not to.
I think there are other options that should be explored first and foremost, and I don't believe she explored them, or really had any desire to. Less than six months is NOT adequate time, imo, either. Again, this isn't a broken gadget you bought from a foreign country that simply isn't up to snuff. It's a person, a child, someone who deserves all the chances and all the help we(collectively) can offer. You can't simply "fix" everything overnight. Some things you can't fix at all-and those are the extreme cases when I believe returning the child would be beneficial for all. Once you've exhausted all means and simply have nothing left to work with. You can't possibly reach that point in less than 6 months. You can surely reach your breaking point, and I wouldn't fault someone for that. But that's not the same as trying everything and nothing worked.
The manner she chose to do this tells me she more likely than not, wasn't willing to try everything. What kind of parent could just send a child off like that knowing full good and well there is no one on the other side for him? She should have made sure to have all ducks in a row before even attempting to send him back. She didn't, and that says an awful lot to me.

If she had simply left him abandoned on the side of the road, or some other random place people would be just as up in arms about it. There ARE channels for this sort of thing in place, for this(among many others) reason. If the #1 concern was for all the children involved, she would have used those channels.
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  #18  
August 13th, 2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Frackel View Post
It may end up being that it is the only solution left in the end, or rather the safest/best for all involved. It should never be option #1, though, imo.
I agree and will back track by agreeing that terminating parental rights shouldn't be the 1st solution but, I don't believe that by leaving it for the only solution left in the end, it would be the safest and best for everyone in every situation though. No, its not a popular solution but I do think that if there are other children involved and the violence extreme, the hard and difficult decisions need to be made much earlier than a last resort. At the very least, the child needs to be removed from the home for an extended period of time. And in even rarer situations, it may be necessary for the family to cut ties earlier than what those on the outside who don't live it 24/7 think.

As far as the mom in the OP, I already stated in another post that I thought it seemed she went into the process without proper information(on her part and on Russia's), that 6 months was not enough time to help the child, and that she did the wrong thing by sending him back, and that she should never be able to adopt again. We agree there.
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  #19  
August 14th, 2012, 07:28 AM
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I do think she should never be able to adopt again as she went about this in the wrong way. She put a minor on a plane, to a hired stranger, who took him to the orphanage if I read that correctly. I can only imagine what would happen to you if you did that state side.



I went to school with a girl who for several years was terrified of her newly adopted little sister. They had problems with her behavior and mental state from nearly day one, but it wasn't until they'd had her for 2 years with medication for therapy that my friend mentioned that they might have to send the girl away (no changes in behavior despite treatment, they had to put locks on the older kids doors because she'd attack them in their sleep. She came from a violent area, it was what she knew). Thankfully they did find a medication that worked and she is now 20, but she's had behavior problems here whole life.

After two picture perfect adoptions, it was a very tough adjustment for everyone.
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  #20  
August 18th, 2012, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My2miracles View Post
There's never a 100% guarantee of a child not having psychological problems even your own bio kid. Neither parent could have issues, kids could seem fine & then bam.

I think when you adopt, it should be like having your own kids - you deal with what you get.
That's a nice thought....

BUT, If people dealt with what they got appropriately, there'd be no need for adoption, except in cases where the parents are disabled and unable to care for their children, or deceased. As we know, there are many people who have no business procreating: people who cannot support themselves let alone a child, drug addicts, child molesters, murderers, etc. Sometimes, it's not even that they're criminals...but too selfish to raise a child; perhaps they wanted a girl & got a boy and treats the girl like crap....maybe they got a disabled child and don't want to or know HOW to raise them.... People often do not want to, or cannot, deal with 'what they get.' Therefore, adoption is necessary. It's not always a "bad" thing either, because plenty of families who cannot have children or want to expand their families, can offer a loving home for these children.

For the Original topic:

It all depends. But there is a right way and a wrong way to do it.
For both, parents who adopt and then find out it's not for them, and, parents who give birth and find out the same, they should have the option to choose not to raise the child, especially if they already have a child and feel that any danger is present to children already in the home. I think it's much better for an unwanted child to be placed where they're wanted, than to be raised hated or resented for their existence. This woman, if she truly felt she didn't want him for whatever reason (right or wrong), would eventually grow to resent, perhaps hate him and could anyone here imagine how she might parent said child? Or abuse him? Or worse? EVERY DAY we see parents going crazy and abusing them or even murdering them. This parent is not who we want raising that particular child, not because we can be absolutely certain she'd go nuts, but because this wasn't the right child for her, and she wasn't the right parent for him

Did she go about it all wrong? YEAH!!! Maybe she was desperate....scared....didn't know what to do. She could have done a million things differently, and had she, we would not even know about her story. I'm sure she's not the first (and won't be the last) person to have returned an adopted child.
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