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  #1  
July 21st, 2006, 02:17 PM
mrobinson
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Do you think it's fair to men to have to pay child support if he didn't want to have the baby in the first place? discuss.
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  #2  
July 21st, 2006, 02:29 PM
Ashes78
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If he helped make the baby...yeah, he should have to pay. Now, if the woman lied and told him she was on bc and wasn't ,etc. I don't think he should be made to pay. That would be very hard to prove though.
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  #3  
July 21st, 2006, 02:31 PM
Jacquie's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I'm not sure if this varies by state/province, country, etc., but I believe that if the father legally terminates his parental rights, he can't be forced to pay child support. Correct me if I'm wrong though, that's just what I thought.
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5/27/05:
5/28/05: miscarriage
08/27/05:
08/30/05: miscarriage
01/15/05: misdiagnosed with PCOS
08/29/06: first appt at fertility clinic (was already pregnant with dd and didn't know it)
08/31/06:
05/16/07: DD was born

TTC #2:
11/13/09: let's try again!
03/10/10: tests with new OB - everything totally normal for DH and I, no indication of pcos; officially diagnosed with "Unexplained Infertility"
04/21/10 - 10/13/10: 7 unsuccessful rounds of clomid with OB
11/13/10 - 14/23/11: 3 unsuccessful IUI's with clomid at fertility clinic
07/27/11: ER for IVF - retrieved 27; 17 were mature enough to fertilize; all 17 fertilized; 11 made it to day 3 embryos; 6 made it to day 6 blasts. Transferred 1, froze 5.
08/08/11: positive hpt!
08/13/11 - 08/20/11: positive blood test (186), but cramping and bleeding. 2 days later, blood at 275; 2 days later, blood at 21. Inevitable miscarriage.
10/13/11: start suprefact for first FET
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  #4  
July 21st, 2006, 02:34 PM
kadydid
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I think this issue needs to be looked into. People dismiss it immediately usually, but if a woman can have an abortion why cant a man opt out during the same time period? KWIM? I have absolutely no idea how that would or could work, but I think the men might be getting a raw deal on some parts. But if ya let the man off the hook, what about the child, it is a very confusing subject. UGH
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  #5  
July 21st, 2006, 02:36 PM
Tersh's Avatar DD nurses her baby too!
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Quote:
I'm not sure if this varies by state/province, country, etc., but I believe that if the father legally terminates his parental rights, he can't be forced to pay child support. Correct me if I'm wrong though, that's just what I thought.[/b]
It has to be agreed upon by the mother, *I think.* If she lets him terminate his parental rights, he doesn't have to pay.
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  #6  
July 21st, 2006, 02:50 PM
mrobinson
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(no one specifically, but everyone) Whether or not it's legal, do you think it's fair?
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  #7  
July 21st, 2006, 02:54 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,201
Did anyone see that episode of Dr Phil, where the guy wanted to give up his rights as a father and he had two lawyers with him. He agrued that he didnt "choose" to be a father? It was really neat to see.

Unfortunately I still do not agree, its up to you to take responsibility for the things you do and make sure you use the ultimate protection to protect yourself from unwanted pregnancy. If I was a guy I would not trust just BC, everyone knows it can fail, I would take it upon myself to suggest also using a condom to minimize the chances of pregnancy.

Even if the girl tricked him, you are responsible for making the right judgement of a persons character, the choices you make etc.
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  #8  
July 21st, 2006, 02:54 PM
Mega Super Mommy
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Location: San Angelo, Texas
Posts: 3,274
Just wanted to add that women don't always get custody and have to pay child support also.
Amanda
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  #9  
July 21st, 2006, 02:57 PM
Jacquie's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,973
Quote:
It has to be agreed upon by the mother, *I think.* If she lets him terminate his parental rights, he doesn't have to pay.[/b]
Wow, we really kind of have them by the balls there.

This site has an interesting applicable lawsuit. It explains why the man not having any rights to deny parentage does not go against the constitution even though the woman has those rights. I don't really agree with it, but I understand how they came to that conclusion. It's also a catch-22 - there would definitely be men that would recklessly have unprotected sex and use that to fall back (if the law was in their favor), just as there are women who take advantage of their right to terminate as well. Interesting though - I think the man should have the opportunity to terminate his parental rights if the woman has the right to terminate the pregnancy. JMO - pro-choice all around
__________________
TTC #1:
5/20/05:
5/27/05:
5/28/05: miscarriage
08/27/05:
08/30/05: miscarriage
01/15/05: misdiagnosed with PCOS
08/29/06: first appt at fertility clinic (was already pregnant with dd and didn't know it)
08/31/06:
05/16/07: DD was born

TTC #2:
11/13/09: let's try again!
03/10/10: tests with new OB - everything totally normal for DH and I, no indication of pcos; officially diagnosed with "Unexplained Infertility"
04/21/10 - 10/13/10: 7 unsuccessful rounds of clomid with OB
11/13/10 - 14/23/11: 3 unsuccessful IUI's with clomid at fertility clinic
07/27/11: ER for IVF - retrieved 27; 17 were mature enough to fertilize; all 17 fertilized; 11 made it to day 3 embryos; 6 made it to day 6 blasts. Transferred 1, froze 5.
08/08/11: positive hpt!
08/13/11 - 08/20/11: positive blood test (186), but cramping and bleeding. 2 days later, blood at 275; 2 days later, blood at 21. Inevitable miscarriage.
10/13/11: start suprefact for first FET
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  #10  
July 21st, 2006, 03:06 PM
Ashes78
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Just wanted to add that women don't always get custody and have to pay child support also.
Amanda[/b]
Yeah. My dh has custody of his son and the mom pays child support.

I feel that once the baby is born, it needs clothes, diapers, food, etc. It's not right for the baby to not get what they need simply because one of the parent's decides that they don't want a child. If you are old enough to go out and have sex, you are old enough to know what "causes" pregnancy. I just don't see how someone could look at their precious baby and say "I don't want a baby."
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  #11  
July 21st, 2006, 03:12 PM
Mega Super Mommy
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Angelo, Texas
Posts: 3,274
My stepdad had custody of my two stepbrothers and they're mom had to pay child support. That's why I automatically thought that women have to pay too.

I agree with Ashes. The parent might not be able to afford everything on their own, and since it takes two to make a baby, then two should have to help financially.
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  #12  
July 21st, 2006, 03:18 PM
mrobinson
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Quote:
Interesting though - I think the man should have the opportunity to terminate his parental rights if the woman has the right to terminate the pregnancy. JMO - pro-choice all around [/b]
There are so many women who wouldn't terminate a pregnancy, even if she had opportunity to BC, abortion clinics.. so are would you* say because of their choice to keep the baby, a males rights can still be terminated? (Pro-choice including the choice of keeping.) On a related question, if anyone thinks a male should pay child support unconditionally, do you think he should be responsible for the nine months of the baby growing inside the mom?

*(and that is open to anyone)

Quote:
I just don't see how someone could look at their precious baby and say "I don't want a baby." [/b]
OT: My DH has deep issues with his brother because of that... my niece is fully aware she would have been an abortion if it was up to him. His brother never did pay child support. The mother is a very free spirit and never did take him to court about it so she just did it on her own.

Back on topic.. My real mother didn't have the means to pay for herself, let alone for two kids.. So my dad didn't get child support. In fact he has to pay for her legal bills on top of his.. I know it wasn't fair then. (1980-1990.)
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  #13  
July 21st, 2006, 04:53 PM
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You better believe I am going after Chris for child support. We both were stupid enough to use the "pull 'n pray" method knowing it wasn't 100% effective, and we are both liable for the consequences now that a child is created. After trying to force me to get an abortion against my will, knowing full well the trauma I had gone through with the first one, he told me that he was signing over his rights as soon as the baby was born and not paying me a dime. Now we are saying that legally he should be allowed to do that? Please... I'm sorry, but if he was that adverse to the idea of having a child in the first place, he should have worn a ###### condom. He had already gotten his previous girlfriend pregnant twice and she had 2 abortions, I think he understood the link between sex and babies. I think any law that allows a father to terminate his parental rights is crap, and it's just going to lead to more abortions, and more struggles and obstacles put in the way of single mothers, and God knows they have enough already. With all this talk about the "mans rights" and the "womans rights" we are forgetting about what is really important and that is the rights of the CHILD involved. Why should my child or ANYBODY'S child have to go without just for the sake of being "fair"?
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  #14  
July 21st, 2006, 05:00 PM
Jen25's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
You better believe I am going after Chris for child support. We both were stupid enough to use the "pull 'n pray" method knowing it wasn't 100% effective, and we are both liable for the consequences now that a child is created. After trying to force me to get an abortion against my will, knowing full well the trauma I had gone through with the first one, he told me that he was signing over his rights as soon as the baby was born and not paying me a dime. Now we are saying that legally he should be allowed to do that? Please... I'm sorry, but if he was that adverse to the idea of having a child in the first place, he should have worn a ###### condom. He had already gotten his previous girlfriend pregnant twice and she had 2 abortions, I think he understood the link between sex and babies. I think any law that allows a father to terminate his parental rights is crap, and it's just going to lead to more abortions, and more struggles and obstacles put in the way of single mothers, and God knows they have enough already. With all this talk about the "mans rights" and the "womans rights" we are forgetting about what is really important and that is the rights of the CHILD involved. Why should my child or ANYBODY'S child have to go without just for the sake of being "fair"?[/b]
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  #15  
July 21st, 2006, 05:07 PM
Chunky Monkey's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
You better believe I am going after Chris for child support. We both were stupid enough to use the "pull 'n pray" method knowing it wasn't 100% effective, and we are both liable for the consequences now that a child is created. After trying to force me to get an abortion against my will, knowing full well the trauma I had gone through with the first one, he told me that he was signing over his rights as soon as the baby was born and not paying me a dime. Now we are saying that legally he should be allowed to do that? Please... I'm sorry, but if he was that adverse to the idea of having a child in the first place, he should have worn a ###### condom. He had already gotten his previous girlfriend pregnant twice and she had 2 abortions, I think he understood the link between sex and babies. I think any law that allows a father to terminate his parental rights is crap, and it's just going to lead to more abortions, and more struggles and obstacles put in the way of single mothers, and God knows they have enough already. With all this talk about the "mans rights" and the "womans rights" we are forgetting about what is really important and that is the rights of the CHILD involved. Why should my child or ANYBODY'S child have to go without just for the sake of being "fair"?[/b]


I was pretty much in the same boat with my DD. Her father has repeatedly fought against child support and his wife says I am taking "her" money, though she has never worked a day in her life! I don't care if he didn't want a child, we both knew the consequences for having unprotected sex.
If they allow men to give up their parental rights just because they don't want to pay child support, there is going to be more women on welfare.
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  #16  
July 21st, 2006, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
You better believe I am going after Chris for child support. We both were stupid enough to use the "pull 'n pray" method knowing it wasn't 100% effective, and we are both liable for the consequences now that a child is created. After trying to force me to get an abortion against my will, knowing full well the trauma I had gone through with the first one, he told me that he was signing over his rights as soon as the baby was born and not paying me a dime. Now we are saying that legally he should be allowed to do that? Please... I'm sorry, but if he was that adverse to the idea of having a child in the first place, he should have worn a ###### condom. He had already gotten his previous girlfriend pregnant twice and she had 2 abortions, I think he understood the link between sex and babies. I think any law that allows a father to terminate his parental rights is crap, and it's just going to lead to more abortions, and more struggles and obstacles put in the way of single mothers, and God knows they have enough already. With all this talk about the "mans rights" and the "womans rights" we are forgetting about what is really important and that is the rights of the CHILD involved. Why should my child or ANYBODY'S child have to go without just for the sake of being "fair"?[/b]


I could have not said it better myself. It takes two to tango. If you choose to have sex you know there is a possibilty of pregnancy.
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  #18  
July 22nd, 2006, 07:46 AM
mrobinson
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Quote:
Michelle, I think you've said this before.

Yes, let him terminate his rights....that will prove what we've been trying to say all along.....

(You know what I mean)[/b]
Exactly!


Blondie: That was an awesome post!
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  #19  
July 22nd, 2006, 08:49 AM
~Jess~'s Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Every man always has the option of using a condom. Are condoms 100%-nope, but if he is THAT anti-kids, there is another option-ABSTINENCE. That has a zero % failure rate. However, if it can be proven that he was tricked into impregnating a girl, I think he should be able to terminate his rights (i.e. girl poked holes in the condoms ahead of time-claiming to be on birth control doesn't count because he always has the choice to use a condom to further protect himself.)

Heck, maybe contracts should be written up prior to intercourse-lol. "I will always use a condom, you must always take your birth control pill on time-if a pregnancy occurs I am not liable if you choose not to terminate the pregnancy. If I do not use a condom, this contract becomes null & void" Both have to sign-lol.
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  #20  
July 22nd, 2006, 09:04 AM
MatteasMommy07's Avatar Member
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Quote:
You better believe I am going after Chris for child support. We both were stupid enough to use the "pull 'n pray" method knowing it wasn't 100% effective, and we are both liable for the consequences now that a child is created. After trying to force me to get an abortion against my will, knowing full well the trauma I had gone through with the first one, he told me that he was signing over his rights as soon as the baby was born and not paying me a dime. Now we are saying that legally he should be allowed to do that? Please... I'm sorry, but if he was that adverse to the idea of having a child in the first place, he should have worn a ###### condom. He had already gotten his previous girlfriend pregnant twice and she had 2 abortions, I think he understood the link between sex and babies. I think any law that allows a father to terminate his parental rights is crap, and it's just going to lead to more abortions, and more struggles and obstacles put in the way of single mothers, and God knows they have enough already. With all this talk about the "mans rights" and the "womans rights" we are forgetting about what is really important and that is the rights of the CHILD involved. Why should my child or ANYBODY'S child have to go without just for the sake of being "fair"?[/b]
Wow, Blondie, you are clearly the smartest person in the world! You should run for president! You rock my socks man!!!

Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quote:
Michelle, I think you've said this before.

Yes, let him terminate his rights....that will prove what we've been trying to say all along.....

(You know what I mean)[/b]
Exactly!


Blondie: That was an awesome post!
[/b][/quote]

Well It don't know what you mean ladies...care to enlighten ma?



Quote:
Every man always has the option of using a condom. Are condoms 100%-nope, but if he is THAT anti-kids, there is another option-ABSTINENCE. That has a zero % failure rate. However, if it can be proven that he was tricked into impregnating a girl, I think he should be able to terminate his rights (i.e. girl poked holes in the condoms ahead of time-claiming to be on birth control doesn't count because he always has the choice to use a condom to further protect himself.)

Heck, maybe contracts should be written up prior to intercourse-lol. "I will always use a condom, you must always take your birth control pill on time-if a pregnancy occurs I am not liable if you choose not to terminate the pregnancy. If I do not use a condom, this contract becomes null & void" Both have to sign-lol.[/b]
Ohhh how romantic
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